Microsoft are clueless

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Joined: 28 Oct 2008
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12 Jan 2009, 6:23 pm

i dont want to disable most of the stuff on vista otherwise i would just run dos (or worse linux)

but i've seen the benchmarks and vista is actually faster than xp is

edit: i'm running vista basic btw

atari2600a
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12 Jan 2009, 6:25 pm

falcorn wrote:

i dont want to disable most of the stuff on vista otherwise i would just run dos (or worse linux)

but i've seen the benchmarks and vista is actually faster than xp is

You don't have to disable it, just set it to manual & it'll load itself when needed instead of staying in system memory, using resources while contributing nothing, not to mention stretching out startup time another 2 minutes longer.

Keith
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12 Jan 2009, 6:28 pm

falcorn wrote:

who defrags their computer? honestly. hard drive speed is not going to make your computer and faster it's all about the cpu and vid card

OK, try filling your hard drive close to 100% and try using it. When you remove enough, you will regain speed. Now, one thing is for certain on computers is that the paging file is paramount to multitasking. When a file can't fit into memory, some programs in memory that aren't being used is paged to the file, this takes time on an immensely full hard drive.

CPU and Video card? So, what about the memory? The DMA helps take the load off the processor when loading from the hard drive. The hard drive plays an important role in computing and is classified as important. Files are not loaded from memory, they are loaded into memory from the hard drive, in which the cache is filled ready for the CPU SRAM to process those bits at equal speed to to the processor without lag

atari2600a
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12 Jan 2009, 6:36 pm

Keith wrote:

This is precisely why when possible I keep a small but fast hard drive on the 2nd IDE line, usually the same one as the optical drive, then set the pagefile/swap partition to it at a size equal to that of the RAM. I've heard of some people getting a CF card & using that for pagefile/swap, but you have to keep in mind that flash can only be written to so many times before it craps out.

falcorn
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12 Jan 2009, 6:44 pm

Keith wrote:

falcorn wrote:

who defrags their computer? honestly. hard drive speed is not going to make your computer and faster it's all about the cpu and vid card

CPU and Video card? So, what about the memory?

memory is not really an issue anymore, any modern game with vista will use less than 2 gigs of memory and you can get 2 gigs for 20 bucks now. so unless people are from africa they afford to have all of their memory loaded into RAM, instead of on a page file from your hard drive which is thousands of times slower.

sure it will take a while to load it into memory but that is just the load time, once its in their the performance relies on your cpu and vid card

edit:

what is unfortunate is that we are stuck with 32 bit and we cant use more than 3 gigs of memory. so game companies will not program their video games to use more than 2 gigs yet because no one will benefit from it

if people werent so dam slow at upgrading and software companies would release 64 bit drivers we could all be on 64 bit and playing game using 10 gigs of memory for 1/10 the price of a computer

edit2:

it just shows that tech can progress so much faster but we are limited by peoples ignorance

example:

CCS3 website usage

web designers cant even program that into their pages because ignorant ass people are using relics from the 90's like IE

xxrobertoxx
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12 Jan 2009, 9:27 pm

atari2600a wrote:

Keith wrote:

Actually you are supposed to make the page file 1.5 times the RAM size. Also it is true that flash can only be written to so many times BUT you can get a SATA connected RAM drive that you fill with RAM and connect to the computer via SATA and then there is a Li-ion battery on that SATA RAM drive adapter to keep your data in the RAM in case of a power problem or something. I believe it probably also has a molex connector also to power it.

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13 Jan 2009, 6:30 am

falcorn wrote:

who defrags their computer? honestly. hard drive speed is not going to make your computer and faster it's all about the cpu and vid card

It's not abut speed, it's about corrupted files.

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atari2600a
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13 Jan 2009, 7:03 am

Greyhound wrote:

falcorn wrote:

who defrags their computer? honestly. hard drive speed is not going to make your computer and faster it's all about the cpu and vid card

It's not abut speed, it's about corrupted files.

Err...no it isn't? It's about FRAGMENTED files...

DeLoreanDude
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13 Jan 2009, 10:38 am

Fragmented files? Annoying bugs in rushed, crappy OSes? None of that here!

Oh wait, I have a Mac.

xxrobertoxx
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13 Jan 2009, 11:01 am

DeLoreanDude wrote:

Fragmented files? Annoying bugs in rushed, crappy OSes? None of that here!

Oh wait, I have a Mac.

All filing systems get fragmented with use. It is impossible for them not to since data can't simply be "pushed" around on the hard drive to move it out of the way so that nothing gets fragmented. The system actually will have to make an effort to defrag and read bits of files and then write them to new locations putting all the pieces together and then deleting the old ones.

Orwell
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13 Jan 2009, 11:15 am

xxrobertoxx wrote:

DeLoreanDude wrote:

Fragmented files? Annoying bugs in rushed, crappy OSes? None of that here!

Oh wait, I have a Mac.

hfs+ (the filesystem used in OS X) deals with disk usage much better than NTFS and does a pretty good job of preventing fragmentation. Defragmentation tools for OS X exist, but I have never once heard of them improving performance- in fact, they usually hurt.

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z0rp
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13 Jan 2009, 11:18 am

Exactly why I was hoping Microsoft would implement that WinFS filesystem they were talking so highly about. Defraging is annoying.

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13 Jan 2009, 1:37 pm

Orwell wrote:

OS X automatically defrags files under 20mb every time they are launched. Utilities that defragment an HFS+ volume may decrease the performance of the boot volume because HFS+ has "hot banding". All of the startup files are placed in order that they need to be read. Metadata is all placed in the metadata zone. Then all of the files are scattered everywhere else. A nonboot volume may benefit from defragmentation, especially if it doesn't use metadata very much. Some utilities for defragging OS X actually keep the system files intact.

lau
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13 Jan 2009, 7:39 pm

xxrobertoxx wrote:

DeLoreanDude wrote:

Fragmented files? Annoying bugs in rushed, crappy OSes? None of that here!

Oh wait, I have a Mac.

No.

Some filing systems don't have fragments, to start with, hence can't become fragmented.

No.

It is perfectly possible for data to be "pushed" around the hard drive. It's called reading and writing.

Yes.

As you eventually say, any reasonable file system should make an effort. Although it may use fragments as a temporary measure, while a file is growing, it should never stay fragmented.

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Greyhound
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14 Jan 2009, 2:08 pm

atari2600a wrote:

Greyhound wrote:

falcorn wrote:

who defrags their computer? honestly. hard drive speed is not going to make your computer and faster it's all about the cpu and vid card

It's not abut speed, it's about corrupted files.

Err...no it isn't? It's about FRAGMENTED files...

I thought if they become too fragmented they can corrupt...but this makes no sense :lol:

Fuzzy
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14 Jan 2009, 4:54 pm

Greyhound wrote:

atari2600a wrote:

Greyhound wrote:

falcorn wrote:

who defrags their computer? honestly. hard drive speed is not going to make your computer and faster it's all about the cpu and vid card

It's not abut speed, it's about corrupted files.

Err...no it isn't? It's about FRAGMENTED files...

I thought if they become too fragmented they can corrupt...but this makes no sense :lol:

At least in FAT how it worked was the file attribute table had the file names and location of the first sector of the each file. each file filled that sector until fullness, and the last few bytes pointed at the next sector. And so on, until the file was complete.

When a file becomes fragmented, parts of it are scattered all over the drive. Imagine picking up scattered pieces of an item for assembly, but you have to do it in order. The pieces are all over your house You may end up coming back to rooms(sectors) you covered earlier... thats inefficient. A defrag will attempt to concatenate these parts in order.

Maybe a better analogy would be to a cd containing music. Say there is a song recorded in three parts. If it were fragmented, part 3 might come before part 2. In effect, the cd has to rewind to get to the next part.

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