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PatrickNeville
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10 Feb 2011, 11:54 pm

I believe it is highly like a multi-verse exists.

Please try not to ask me the technical questions. I have to say I am unlikely to know the answers. The best I can offer is passing on the info for you guys here.

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/20 ... ision.html

Quote:
String theorists Neil Turok of Cambridge University and Paul Steinhardt, Albert Einstein Professor in Science and Director of the Princeton Center for Theoretical Science at Princeton believe that the cosmos we see as the Big Bang was actually created by the cyclical trillion-year collision of two universes (which they define as three-dimensional branes plus time) that were attracted toward each other by the leaking of gravity out of one of the universes.

In their view of the universe the complexities of an inflating universe after a Big Bang are replaced by a universe that was already large. flat, and uniform with dark energy as the effect of the other universe constantly leaking gravity into our own and driving its acceleration.

According to this theory, the Big Bang was not the beginning of time but the bridge to a past filled with endlessly repeating cycles of evolution, each accompanied by the creation of new matter and the formation of new galaxies, stars, and planets.

Turok and Steinhardt were inspired by a lecture given by Burt Ovrut who imagined two branes, universes like ours, separated by a tiny gap as tiny as 10-32 meters. There would be no communictaion between the two universes except for our parallel sister universe's gravitational pull, which could cross the tiny gap.

Orvut's theory could explain the effect of dark matter where areas of the universe are heavier than they should be given everything that's present. With their theory, the nagging problems surrounding the Big Bang (beginning from what, and caused how?) are replaced by an eternal cosmic cycle where dark energy is no longer a mysterious unknown quantity, but rather the very extra gravitational force that drives the universe to universe (brane-brane) interaction.


A good video about the idea our came from nothing at all. Maybe true but I am more supportive of the idea of infinite universes. So far unproven by a long shot but seems highly likely to me.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5xfSh4ZYhk[/youtube]

"A discussion about breakthroughs in particle physics with distinguished Harvard professor Lisa Randall. Randall provides an introduction to her theory that gravity is concentrated in a higher dimensional universe that is parallel to our own. "

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMm38apPNUs&feature=related[/youtube]

Since extra dimensions is related to the universe and chances of a multi-verse, here an idea from about a year ago about gravity being the result of other forces.

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24975/

Quote:
One of the hottest new ideas in physics is that gravity is an emergent phenomena; that it somehow arises from the complex interaction of simpler things.

A few month's ago, Erik Verlinde at the the University of Amsterdam put forward one such idea which has taken the world of physics by storm. Verlinde suggested that gravity is merely a manifestation of entropy in the Universe. His idea is based on the second law of thermodynamics, that entropy always increases over time. It suggests that differences in entropy between parts of the Universe generates a force that redistributes matter in a way that maximises entropy. This is the force we call gravity.

What's exciting about the approach is that it dramatically simplifies the theoretical scaffolding that supports modern physics. And while it has its limitations--for example, it generates Newton's laws of gravity rather than Einstein's--it has some advantages too, such as the ability to account for the magnitude of dark energy which conventional theories of gravity struggle with.

But perhaps the most powerful idea to emerge from Verlinde's approach is that gravity is essentially a phenomenon of information.

Today, this idea gets a useful boost from Jae-Weon Lee at Jungwon University in South Korea and a couple of buddies. They use the idea of quantum information to derive a theory of gravity and they do it taking a slightly different tack to Verlinde.

At the heart of their idea is the tricky question of what happens to information when it enters a black hole. Physicists have puzzled over this for decades with little consensus. But one thing they agree on is Landauer's principle: that erasing a bit of quantum information always increases the entropy of the Universe by a certain small amount and requires a specific amount of energy.

Jae-Weon and co assume that this erasure process must occur at the black hole horizon. And if so, spacetime must organise itself in a way that maximises entropy at these horizons. In other words, it generates a gravity-like force.

That's intriguing for several reasons. First, Jae-Weon and co assume the existence of spacetime and its geometry and simply ask what form it must take if information is being erased at horizons in this way.

It also relates gravity to quantum information for the first time. Over recent years many results in quantum mechanics have pointed to the increasingly important role that information appears to play in the Universe.

Some physicists are convinced that the properties of information do not come from the behaviour of information carriers such as photons and electrons but the other way round. They think that information itself is the ghostly bedrock on which our universe is built.

Gravity has always been a fly in this ointment. But the growing realisation that information plays a fundamental role here too, could open the way to the kind of unification between the quantum mechanics and relativity that physicists have dreamed of.


On December 20th 2010 an announcement was amde about a possible indicator of multiple universes.

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/20 ... erses.html

Quote:
In the most recent epic study on "pre-Big Bang science" Stephen M. Feeney and colleagues from the UK, Canada, and the US have revealed that they have discovered four statistically unlikely circular patterns in the cosmic microwave background (CMB). The researchers think that these marks could be “bruises” that our universe has incurred from being bumped four times by other universes. If they turn out to be correct, it would be the first evidence that universes other than ours do exist.

The idea that there are many other universes out there is not new, as scientists have previously suggested that we live in a “multiverse” consisting of an infinite number of universes. The multiverse concept stems from the idea of eternal inflation, in which the inflationary period that our universe went through right after the Big Bang was just one of many inflationary periods that different parts of space were and are still undergoing. When one part of space undergoes one of these dramatic growth spurts, it balloons into its own universe with its own physical properties. As its name suggests, eternal inflation occurs an infinite number of times, creating an infinite number of universes, resulting in the multiverse.

These infinite universes are sometimes called bubble universes even though they are irregular-shaped, not round. The bubble universes can move around and occasionally collide with other bubble universes. As Feeney, et al., explain in their paper, "these collisions produce inhomogeneities in the inner-bubble cosmology, which could appear in the CMB. The scientists developed an algorithm to search for bubble collisions in the CMB with specific properties, which led them to find the four circular patterns."

The scientists acknowledge that it is rather easy to find a variety of statistically unlikely properties in a large dataset like the CMB. The researchers emphasize that more work is needed to confirm this claim, which could come in short time from the Planck satellite, which has a resolution three times better than that of WMAP (where the current data comes from), as well as an order of magnitude greater sensitivity. Nevertheless, they hope that the search for bubble collisions could provide some insight into the history of our universe, whether or not the collisions turn out to be real.

“The conclusive non-detection of a bubble collision can be used to place stringent limits on theories giving rise to eternal inflation; however, if a bubble collision is verified by future data, then we will gain an insight not only into our own universe but a multiverse beyond,” the researchers write in their study.

This is the second study in the past month that has used CMB data to search for what could have occurred before the Big Bang.

In the first study, Roger Penrose and Vahe Gurzadyan found concentric circles with lower-than-average temperature variation in the CMB, which could be evidence for a cyclic cosmology in which Big Bangs occur over and over.


Casey Kazan via The Physics arXiv Blog: Stephen M. Feeney, Matthew C. Johnson, Daniel J. Mortlock, and Hiranya V. Peiris. "First Observational Tests of Eternal Inflation." arXiv:1012.1995v1


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11 Feb 2011, 11:47 am

I won't believe it until it's proved there are other universes. I think it's possible though.



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11 Feb 2011, 12:36 pm

Orwell wrote:
user1001 wrote:
I am a full believer in M theory

It is not appropriate to express "belief" or disbelief in a scientific notion until you have data and evidence.

We talking about the string theory there, faith is a appropraite concept. :lol:


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11 Feb 2011, 12:40 pm

Tollorin wrote:
Orwell wrote:
user1001 wrote:
I am a full believer in M theory

It is not appropriate to express "belief" or disbelief in a scientific notion until you have data and evidence.

We talking about the string theory there, faith is a appropraite concept. :lol:

In the context of scientific notions, agnosticism is the only appropriate response to an idea that has yet to accumulate evidence for or against.


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11 Feb 2011, 2:11 pm

No. Every time the old theories disprove themselves, they claim it as evidence of a discovery. Mainly I think it is about grant money from people who have no idea about the Universe.

The Emperor's clothes are made of String Theory.



ruveyn
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11 Feb 2011, 2:20 pm

Inventor wrote:
No. Every time the old theories disprove themselves, they claim it as evidence of a discovery. Mainly I think it is about grant money from people who have no idea about the Universe.

The Emperor's clothes are made of String Theory.


As you type on a device the exists only because quantum physics works.

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12 Feb 2011, 2:15 pm

Anything that works can then be described and claimed to be quantum physics.

I type on a Tesla, he defined and patented it. Thought is the only force.

Making a claim about why what works works is not coming up with a better battery.

What has this got to do with String Theory?

Does bad science have a union?



jhaarbur
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12 Feb 2011, 7:15 pm

I deeply believe in multieverse theory and brane theory. I personally think that there maybe something even beyond branes, but I am saying that philosophically but not scientifically. Now, does anybody know anything about F theory? I know it's complicated, but can anyone sum it up in a nutshell?



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12 Feb 2011, 7:39 pm

jhaarbur wrote:
I deeply believe in multieverse theory and brane theory. I personally think that there maybe something even beyond branes, but I am saying that philosophically but not scientifically. Now, does anybody know anything about F theory? I know it's complicated, but can anyone sum it up in a nutshell?


Without empirical corroberation all we have is philosophical speculation. Physical science must be firmly rooted to physical reality by way of observations and experiment.

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12 Feb 2011, 8:00 pm

Absolutely. I am just saying that you know never know how far out things can go and that branes may not be the only level of things all together (if their real). But as we know things, based ON observation, you could infer that things could further out. I am not saying any of this is definate, but based on logic you could propose that things could just keep expanding indefinately. I am just inferring and I do not want to sound like I meant that definately.



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12 Feb 2011, 8:12 pm

To quote one of my favourite Asimov stories, "THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER." I think there are points to be made in the favour of multiverse theory, but we don't yet have any good evidence. Perhaps we never will.

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In the context of scientific notions, agnosticism is the only appropriate response to an idea that has yet to accumulate evidence for or against.

I think that sums my thoughts up perfectly.



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12 Feb 2011, 8:28 pm

It's what you believe I guess...aren't they doing an experiment now to test if the universe really is holographic? I thought I read an article on that. I mean when you really get down to the quantum level, nothing really is solid. And when you get to the Planck scale, things are perfectly empty...(Ok ya I know that even at the atomic level things aren't solid, but I am just trying to say that at the Planck scale mass is nothing but curvatures in space time, so in essence the universe could POSSIBLY be a complicated illusion if you want to look at it that way...)



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12 Feb 2011, 9:06 pm

jhaarbur wrote:
It's what you believe I guess...aren't they doing an experiment now to test if the universe really is holographic? I thought I read an article on that. I mean when you really get down to the quantum level, nothing really is solid. And when you get to the Planck scale, things are perfectly empty...(Ok ya I know that even at the atomic level things aren't solid, but I am just trying to say that at the Planck scale mass is nothing but curvatures in space time, so in essence the universe could POSSIBLY be a complicated illusion if you want to look at it that way...)


With our best and most expensive instruments we are fifteen orders of magnitude removed from Planck Scale in both time and length. I would not bet good money that we will ever get there.

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12 Feb 2011, 9:12 pm

Never said we would. I am just saying that if you really look at it, things really aren't solid and we COULD possibly really be living in a "holodeck" if you get what I mean...and if we are living in something like that, then theoreitcally there could a lot more to "reality/ies" than what we see...not that I am saying we will ever have an answer, but it's something to ponder...



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13 Feb 2011, 2:57 pm

There's the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics. Its sort of a proof for the existence of at least a limited multiverse.



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13 Feb 2011, 5:08 pm

Quantum_Immortal wrote:
There's the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics. Its sort of a proof for the existence of at least a limited multiverse.


I think you might enjoy this short (fictional) sci-fi story... link originally posted by Fuzzy a couple of weeks ago. I enjoyed reading it. Don't read the rest of the thread though as it spoils the storyline. The story is very apt considering your interests and username.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt150021.html


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