Are UFO's real?

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Actually, if he really did have a top secret clearance and started blabbing about it to the world, he would surely be prosecuted heavily for it -- that would be a serious federal crime. He would have gone to prison real fast and hardly anyone would know who he was.

Instead, the only arrest record he has involves his part in operating a brothel, something that real scientists rarely do.

If he actually had the background he claims he has, someone would remember him. And his claims of doing the impossible such as stealing a pound of element 115, which is highly radioactive, and which decays in well under a second are clearly nothing but lies.

In reality, element 115 was synthesized in 2003 or 2004 when four atoms of it was produced at great expense. Those atoms decayed in under a tenth of a second.

Yeah, I rarely believe the photos or videos, because they're so easy to fake. But if you read some of the released reports, even with all the blacked out information, you start to wonder. Pilots, trained observers, you have to wonder what it was they saw. Not all sightings can be explained. Maybe they are nothing out of this world, but the fact is they haven't been explained.

And in the courtroom the Federal prosecution would place on the public record the existence of extraterrestrial craft in the hands of the US government.
Then it would open that massive tin of worms: Where did the craft come from?
How did the US military obtain them?
Was a deal made with ET's?
What was offered in exchange?
etc etc etc etc.


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Not hardly.

As I understand it, the courtroom could be cleared when needed and the documents and transcript redacted whenever necessary. The defense lawyer can be required to have a security clearance to even see the documents in question. Furthermore, the trial record itself may become classified information.

Not classified to the clearance of majestic, which is what it would have to be.
Everybody involved in the proceedings, which could drag on for years, would have to be cleared to that high level. From jurors to clerks to judges to lawyers to security guards, every one of them a potential leak, all able to add credibility to the public story in a way Bob never could.
But this has gone way into theory.
Why not just listen to one of his interviews and decide for yourself?

Why listen to his interviews? His claims are already well known and publicized and they are absolute scientific nonsense. If he can't even get the science right, he cannot possibly have had the positions he claims to have had and there is no need to listen to him at all.

As far as the security proceedings, it isn't all that unusual to have court cases involving issues of national security. From what I have read before, I think there are already judges and staff available with the proper security clearances.


As for the so-called "majestic" security clearance, in real life in the US, there are only three levels of security clearances: confidential, secret, and top secret. That it. There is no majestic security clearance. People are cleared for top secret but what they are actually privy to that is highly secret is heavily compartmentalized and based one need to know rather than on having some higher security clearance. As usual, Lazar's claims of security clearances are every bit as bogus as his claims of being a scientist.

That's okay. I'm not here to persuade you to do anything.
I present opinions for the basis of inspiring constructive debate, nothing more.
As this debate has reached its own conclusion for you, I wish you well and look forward to you posting in the future.

What bothers me about those who believe that we are being visited by alien species is that they always seem to think that all they have to do is spout off with some meaningless nonsense and throw in a few scientific words (invariably in highly unscientific uses) and nobody can claim they are wrong.

That's a large part of what makes them kooks.

This thread should have been titled: Are some UFO's alien vehicles?

This is the ever-famous Washington DC 7/12/1952:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyqAQJiw05s[/youtube]

Where are the artifacts. Are they in hand. Off course not. Those lights could have been produced (assuming they are real) by earthly aircraft.

ruveyn

The reason I'm starting to like getting into this is for the ability to somewhat peel the onion, see the logical consistencies and inconsistencies, and I really try not to either believe or disbelieve until I have something concrete one way or another.

I'll agree that its tough to rule out experimental craft, and I can't imagine this video meaning much to anyone if it were distinctly a dozen craft recognizable as planes flying over DC - there would never have been a story. If it would have been one huxter with a camera claiming these were UFO's the white house wouldn't have played along either. This particular video doesn't have impossible maneuvers, ie. the mock 20'something hard right-angle turns or anything like that, so 'weird' governmental craft can't be ruled out - albeit for weird governmental craft to be flying over DC you wouldn't do something like that unless you planned to generate some kind of story. Why generate a story? Perhaps to flood the marketplace of debate with so many cheap knock-offs that people just throw their hands up, come to the conclusion that telling fraud from the real thing will be nigh impossible, and just to buy the official line that nothing is happening (ie. mask the real thing with a mountain of clever fakes).

I'm not saying that's the case necessarily either, just that I try to back-engineer as often as possible the 'why' of it, in the case that it would be a government skunk-works hoax. Then again, if it were the real deal - that shifts the motive a few degrees.

Of course aliens and ufo's are real. We live in such a big universe, We simply cant be the only intelligent life, that's impossible, not to have other intelligent life forms.

Last edited by lol343 on 20 Jan 2013, 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Light speed in a vacuum is about 300,000 km per second and the stars are very, very far away.

I am sure there are other intelligent races in the galaxy or in the cosmos but they are bound by the same physical laws as we are.

ruveyn

That is exactly right.

And the speed of light is an upper limit. In reality, any spacecraft is going to be traveling much slower. If there was an intelligent alien species only 25 light years away from us with a desire to explore other star systems looking for life and if they have the capabilities of getting their spacecraft up to 1% of the speed of light (an awfully fast speed) then that becomes a 5,000 year round trip just to drop by for a visit.

"Argument From Incredulity":

The argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy that essentially relies on a lack of imagination in the audience.

The general form of the argument is as follows.

Minor premise: One can't imagine (or has not imagined) how P could be so.
Major premise (unstated): If P, then one could imagine (or would have imagined) how P could be so.
Conclusion: Not-P.

As a syllogism this is valid. The fallacy lies in the unstated major premise. If a state of affairs is impossible to imagine, it doesn't follow that it is false; it may only mean that imagination is limited. Moreover, if no one has yet managed to imagine how a state of affairs is possible, it doesn't follow that no one will ever be able to.

Translation: Just because X is not believed to be impossible, that does not make X true.