Do Americans understand celsius?

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If an American celsius lobby was founded then how successful would it be? Am I right in saying that there is more public support for celsius than the media and industry thinks there is but it isn't evenly spread out across the nation?

Food packaging is redesigned every year so the cost of switching to celsius, starting with both celsius and fahrenheit figures, will be negligible. If HVAC equipment works in both celsius and fahrenheit then the same models can be sold in both the US and Canada which could reduce costs for manufacturers rather than having separate fahrenheit and celsius models for the American and Canadian markets. Weather reports are the difficult area but is the reluctance to use celsius because the media bosses still go round thinking that over 90% of customers are WASPs with a 1950s mindset?

The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans in this issue is what progress they obstruct.

Not hardly.

Jimmy Carter made somewhat of an effort to implement the Metric Conversion Act which was signed into law by Gerald Ford (who was, by the way, a Republican), not Jimmy Carter. The effort failed because it had little or no support from the citizens, not because of Ronald Reagan.

Actually, it really was Reagan. Well, his administration, to be more specific. Lyn Nofziger, to be precise.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02142.html

Metric conversion was well underway when Reagan killed it. There were dual-system signs on the interstates (Still are in many places!), and many companies converted for compatibility with their international units. Speedometers show KPH and had selectable or dual odometers. Products and food listed weight in grams and so on. Conversion may have been more complete in some parts of the US than others, but it really was happening all over the place.

The legacy is still there. We still buy soda in 1.5 and 2 liter bottles and no one balks at buying them. Your WD-40 comes in an 8oz/226g can. Bike and car enthusiasts usually have multiple tools for each system (metric and imperial wrench and socket sets). Scientists measure in SI mks units and soldiers talk about distances in Klicks, etc.

Some of the Republicans did have some weird, idiotic idea about the international standard as some kind of attack on American sovereignty... Goofy.

I blame them for the loss of the Mars Climate Observer (There may be better stories about this, but none with a finer headline)

Democrats are responsible for all kinds of other stupidities, but this one really does come straight from the Gipper and his merry men. Many citizens were just fine with metric.

The only ones I knew who were fine with metric were those with a good scientific background and people who grew up in other countries where metric was being used. Everyone else that I knew was strongly opposed to changing to the metric system.

In any event, claims that Ronald Reagan killed the effort to switch to the metric system are just plain wrong. All he did was do away with a single board. On the other hand, he did sign a bill that amended the Metric Conversion Act to strengthen it.

The reality is that effort has continued under the Metric Conversion Act to switch over, but that switch over is voluntary. Reagan did not derail it.

All the parts of my bicycle (made in the U.S.A.O) are metric size parts. Down to the smallest screw.

ruveyn

Metric conversion was implemented in Britain gradually, still isn't complete, and fahrenheit was amongst the first units to go which is why almost nobody in Britain under the age of 30 understands it. Roads are still measured in miles and yards. Beer and milk are sold by the pint. Most people think of their height in terms of feet and inches. I can remember the days when it was the norm to sell fresh food in pounds and ounces, and floor coverings were sold by the square foot, but fahrenheit was a mysterious measurement that old folk sometimes mentioned in conversation but you rarely ever encountered it anywhere else.

Aren't the states responsible for the signs? I certainly don't remember seeing any metric signs in Texas.



Actually, the 2 liter bottles have been around since 1970. That was five years before President Ford signed the Metric Conversion Act.

I don't think I have ever seen a 1.5 liter bottle of soft drinks.



Again, this has nothing to do with the Metric Conversion Act. Mechanics working on foreign cars that used metric nuts and bolts had to have metric wrenches and those were around long before 1975.

In the summer of 1974, I was helping someone replace the water pump on their car with metric nuts and bolts and we didn't have any metric wrenches. We got the old ones off okay, but trying to get them tightened again with a crescent wrench without rounding them off was problematical. We ended up using a file to file the heads down so that standard wrenches would work.

States are responsible for the signs and they are free to post them in metric. But it is Article I, Section 8 of the U. S. Constitution that gives Congress the power to "fix the standard of weights and measures" for the nation. Only Congress really has the power to implement the metric system on a nation wide basis, and they haven't been doing their job.



They may have been around since 1970, but they weren't marketed until about 1978. The 2 liter plastic bottle was designed as a replacement for the 64 oz. glass bottles which were common all the way through the 1970s. Anyway I believe that 2 liter bottles were actually the result of the National Bureau of Standards decision to adopted the metric system at the 11th General Conference of Weights and Measures in 1964. I don't think the Metric Conversion Act had anything to do with it. Though it may have encouraged the bottlers adopt 2 liter bottles as the standard.

Why do you think that it is the government's job to force the metric system on us?

The Metric Conversion Act does not contain any authorization to force the metric system on us. Rather, it is concerned with a voluntary conversion. Even if Reagan had not closed that board, it could not have possibly forced us to switch to the metric system.

Would you prefer that government boards and agencies be free to ursurp powers for which they have no authority?



I guess you are free to believe whatever you want, no matter what the evidence shows.

The fact is that we had 2 liter bottles prior to Gerald Ford signing the Metric Conversion Act. We did have non-metric bottles for years, too. My recollection is that the non-metric bottles were quite common here for years after Ronald Reagan closed the one board in 1982.

I remember those old glass bottles quite well. They could be returned to the store for a refund of your deposit. I used to stack them in my garage and take them back to the store about once a year. I distinctly remember being surprised when I took a year's worth of bottles back to the store and found that they were no longer being used and could not be returned. And that was in the late 1980s or later, possibly as late as 1991 or 1992.

Because the Constitution says so. For the same reason it is the government's job to force a healthcare system on us. You can't have a universal anything, unless you force it on people. Because there are too many stupid people who will refuse to adopt, even if it is in their best interest. The metric system has been voluntary in the US since 1866, and it hasn't worked. If congress had fulfilled their constitutional obligations in 1866, we wouldn't even be having this debate now.



I'd like to see Congress do their job as outlined in Article I, Section 8 of the U. S. Constitution.



You are missing the point. The Metric Conversion Act. had nothing to do with that. 2 liter bottles were the direct result of the National Bureau of Standards decision to adopted the metric system in 1964. That's what put metric labels on products, well before the Metric Conversion Act. I learned the metric system in school in 1969.

Precisely where in the Constitution is the power to require the use of the metric system granted to the government?



I would like to see them do their job according to a strict reading of the Constitution rather than the absurdly expansive reading that they use to justify the use of power that they do not have.

Under a strict reading of the Constitution, there is nothing there that gives them any power to mandate a switch to the metric system.



Can you provide reputable citations to sources that say that the 2 liter bottles were introduced for that reason? I think not.

There are other possible reasons. Maybe they wanted to standardize their machinery to make the bottles so that they could use them anywhere in the world. Maybe it was a gamble on the way they expected the market to go.

One thing seems clear -- President Ronald Reagan did not derail the movement to switch to the Metric System.

While he did dissolve one board, that board was seen as being largely ineffectual and unnecessary. On the other hand, he signed into law an act that included an amendment to the Metric Conversion Act that strengthened the Act. That was hardly the logical action of someone wanting to derail the voluntary conversion to the metric system.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power Tolay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


Article I, Section 8 of the U. S. Constitution.

I wondered if that was the phrase you would try to use to support your case.

My understanding is that the phrase "fix the Standard of Weights and Measures" means defining standard weights and measures for the standards in use, not to determine which particular systems are to be used by the citizens. In other words, it is up to Congress to make sure that the standards are the same throughout the country instead of having each state or other jurisdiction defined their own standards.

In other words, they are authorized by the Constitution to set the standard for how much is a pound, how much is a quart, how much is a liter, how much is a kilogram, ... . It does not mean that they have the authority to tell you and me that we must use kilograms instead of pounds.

With the authorization of Congress, the Department of Commerce sets the actual standards for the Metric Systems as well as for English weights and measures.

Thus, a pound in New York City and a pound in California are the same. Similarly, a kilogram in Florida and a kilogram in Alaska will be the same.

Is there any legislation that makes fahrenheit the official measurement of temperature in the US?