It's about time somenoe proposed it: (NASA/Astronomy related

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Jono
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14 Aug 2009, 4:08 pm

CaroleTucson wrote:
I don't see the point of sending a manned mission to Mars. They've already had good looks at the surface for years now ... what do they think a human is going to discover that a robot wouldn't?


A manned mission could technically yield a higher scientific return than robotic missions because the robotic missions are initially designed with specific goals in mind. The Spirit and Opportunity rovers, which is of course the most successful robotic mission to date, still have some limitations like not being designed to climb slopes etc. Humans on the other hand can do a lot more as well as accomplish a lot more in a shorter time frame. Although I think that a manned missions to Mars might be a good long term goal, not just for the scientific benefits but for other reasons as well, it can't be done now because of the costs and high risks involved.

Did anyone notice my last post which is related to this topic? It will be a sad day if the Constellation Program is cancelled. Lets hope America does't end having to visit the Chinese Lunar colony in the year 2130! 8O



Aoi
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14 Aug 2009, 6:22 pm

I saw the news about the Augustine commission's recommendations, and just finished reading or listening to reports about the prospects of humans getting out of low Earth orbit anytime in the next 25 years. It seems we're not going to be going anywhere for a while.

The LCROSS mission to the Moon should put to rest the lingering question of water in deep crevasses on thee Moon. An unlikely prospect, but if it proved true, a Moon base would become simpler.

I'm all for sending robots everywhere, filled with all the AI we can develop. But there are a variety of long-term reasons for humanity to master space travel and life in outer space. In simple terms, right now our eggs are in one basket, and it's not clear that we can protect that basket. In the very long term, we can't.
Besides, there is so much to be learned out there that has practical value back here at home that humans and robots ultimately have to go, or perhaps human-robot hybrids...



TheBookkeeper
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18 Aug 2009, 3:59 pm

I'm sorry. I think this is all a bad idea. As much as I love space and space travel, human beings should not be the ones to do it. Speaking as someone who considers himself inhuman, I have noticed that human beings merely perpetrate their own greed and violence on each other. What's to stop them from doing this if we ran into someone out there? And let's just say we colonize the moon and mars, how long until we've messed those worlds up as badly as we've messed up ours? I really don't want to see wars going on away from Earth, and on the surface of other planets. It isn't right.
Now Aspies, on the other hand, I think could do it. We need a vacation from humanity as a whole anyway, and it's a win-win in my opinion. If they sent us all into space to live on, say, Mars, everyone would be happy. We would have an Aspie-culture of our own, and they would be rid of what they consider a 'problem'.
I know this is scratching dangerous territory in the forums, broaching the concept of genetic differences between AS/NT groups, so I'm going to stop here. All in all, I don't think it should be humans whizzing around out there.

-TB


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Jono
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30 Aug 2009, 3:20 pm

TheBookkeeper wrote:
I'm sorry. I think this is all a bad idea. As much as I love space and space travel, human beings should not be the ones to do it. Speaking as someone who considers himself inhuman, I have noticed that human beings merely perpetrate their own greed and violence on each other. What's to stop them from doing this if we ran into someone out there? And let's just say we colonize the moon and mars, how long until we've messed those worlds up as badly as we've messed up ours? I really don't want to see wars going on away from Earth, and on the surface of other planets. It isn't right.
Now Aspies, on the other hand, I think could do it. We need a vacation from humanity as a whole anyway, and it's a win-win in my opinion. If they sent us all into space to live on, say, Mars, everyone would be happy. We would have an Aspie-culture of our own, and they would be rid of what they consider a 'problem'.
I know this is scratching dangerous territory in the forums, broaching the concept of genetic differences between AS/NT groups, so I'm going to stop here. All in all, I don't think it should be humans whizzing around out there.

-TB


Even if we knew there was someone out there, it would be exceedingly difficult to force anything on them since they would probably live thousands of light years away from us. You do have a point about possible wars on other worlds, however under the Outer Space Treaty, no country can make territorial claims over land on neither the moon nor Mars. In fact, land on the moon would have the same legal status as land in Antarctica should any nation decide to build a moon base. I've heard the objection before that we could mess up other worlds if they were colonized but personally think that space colonization should happen if we are to survive in the long term. Also what makes you think that Aspies are better than the NT population? I don't believe this is true.



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30 Aug 2009, 4:29 pm

I have expressed my views before that it is my firm belief that an Aspergian mind is greater to a human mind, and affords us greater advantages. To me, it is as plain as the nose on my face. I will never understand how individuals from both sides of the equation fight me on this.

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ruveyn
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30 Aug 2009, 7:45 pm

TheBookkeeper wrote:
I have expressed my views before that it is my firm belief that an Aspergian mind is greater to a human mind, and affords us greater advantages. To me, it is as plain as the nose on my face. I will never understand how individuals from both sides of the equation fight me on this.

-JKS


Being an Aspie has its uses. In purely technical matters Aspies have an advantage. But there is more to life than technique and technology. Man does not live by bread alone.

ruveyn



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31 Aug 2009, 5:08 am

No, he cannot. However, I long ago ceased considering myself 'human' in favor of 'aspergian'. Although the Somali and Bengal tigers are both tigers, they are distinct species. In much the same way, I have drawn a line that separates me from normal human beings.
I am actually proud to say that I have managed to cast off most of the 'human' things in life. For instance, I no longer use emotions at all, which I consider a blessing. I've managed to wipe those out in favor of a subjective, logical mind. It works much better, believe me.

-TB


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ruveyn
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31 Aug 2009, 5:59 am

TheBookkeeper wrote:
No, he cannot. However, I long ago ceased considering myself 'human' in favor of 'aspergian'. Although the Somali and Bengal tigers are both tigers, they are distinct species. In much the same way, I have drawn a line that separates me from normal human beings.
I am actually proud to say that I have managed to cast off most of the 'human' things in life. For instance, I no longer use emotions at all, which I consider a blessing. I've managed to wipe those out in favor of a subjective, logical mind. It works much better, believe me.

-TB


Aspies do not constitute a biological species. They can interbreed fertilly with the normals. Aspies are one of several varieties of people belonging to homo sapien sapien.

ruven



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31 Aug 2009, 8:41 pm

And I suppose that is the crux of our difference, then. You believe that we are a part of the genetic melting pot of Homo Sapiens Sapiens. I do not.

If Aspergers is, indeed, a DISORDER that would be true. However, I do not believe it to be one. This is something that is recurring and genetic, not to mention can be an inherited trait. That right there sounds like the grounds for an evolution argument. Although it is true we can breed with a non-Aspergian, so can two breeds of housecat, correct? A tabby can mate with a calico, should it have the mind to. I am hesitant to suggest, as I have not done much research into it, that it wouldn't be impossible for a human to mate with certain breeds of simians, provided that the genetics are close enough. When I witness human behaviors, I tend to believe it is possible.

No, I am fairly certain that Aspergians are a separate race. Truth be told, I cannot understand how others do not see it. We are on a level many human beings wish they could attain. I have heard the phrase 'higher minds' applied to extraterrestrials, and I apply it to us as well.

-TB


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Jono
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03 Sep 2009, 5:24 pm

TheBookkeeper wrote:
Although it is true we can breed with a non-Aspergian, so can two breeds of housecat, correct? A tabby can mate with a calico, should it have the mind to. I am hesitant to suggest, as I have not done much research into it, that it wouldn't be impossible for a human to mate with certain breeds of simians, provided that the genetics are close enough.


Organisms from different species can't reproduce with each other according to the scientific definition. Humans interbreeding with simians is impossible.

This is getting off the topic though. Regarding the original topic, it seems as though NASA is still going through with the plans to launch the Ares I-X rocket test on October 31 in spite of the Augustine Commission's final options. Does anyone think here think that the Ares I rocket will be canceled? Because if that happens, it will only delay manned spaceflights for up to another two years following the Space Shuttles retirement.



RichardBB
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04 Sep 2009, 2:29 pm

ruveyn wrote:
We don't have the technology for a permanent base on the Moon. Besides which there is no water there. No water, no permanent base.

ruveyn


There is ice at the poles. We don't know how much of it there is.



ruveyn
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04 Sep 2009, 3:14 pm

TheBookkeeper wrote:

No, I am fairly certain that Aspergians are a separate race. Truth be told, I cannot understand how others do not see it. We are on a level many human beings wish they could attain. I have heard the phrase 'higher minds' applied to extraterrestrials, and I apply it to us as well.



Nonsense. Aspies have a human genome just like NTs. And they can interbreed and produce offspring that can reproduce. I am living proof. I have children and grandchildren.

ruveyn



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04 Sep 2009, 3:30 pm

Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal coexisted for a period in time and were also able to interbreed, and I cannot think of anyone who will tell me that Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals are the same type of species.

-TB


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You are the vanguards of mankind.
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Thus do I appoint thee and thy descendants.