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Jetson
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12 Jul 2005, 2:28 pm

Sarcastic_Name wrote:
I know it's open source, but I have loose grasp as to what that means.

Open Source means, literally, that the source code used to generate the binary (executable) files is available for free, public viewing without non-disclosure agreements or patents.

There are several benefits to open source:

1: Many thousands of people submit bug reports, patches and suggest ways to improve the code.

2: Non-programmers have the ability to submit suggestions for features and have those suggestions actually considered by the programmers.

3: Because the code is non-commercial, there is less incentive to "do the wrong thing" in order to improve profit. Conversely, open-source programmers gain respect for turning out good code, and so they will usually "do the right thing" even if it's harder.

4: There is almost always more than one way to do something so programs live or die on their merits, as opposed to the commercial industry where bad software can survive if the marketing and/or lobbying campaigns are strong enough.

5: If a product starts to deteriorate because of neglect or because a special interest has hijacked the agenda then someone else can take a working copy of the code and "fork" it into a different product and take development in another direction.

6: If some code works well in one product, programmers can cut-and-paste it into another product without getting sued.

There are two main down-sides to open source:

1: There's no free support. You get what you pay for.

2: Some software vendors are waging a war against open source, and one of the tactics they use is to convince hardware vendors to ignore Linux. This means that while most products come with a Windows Driver CD-Rom in the box, support for Linux is usually delayed and/or incomplete.

Those are all arguments based purely on the method by which the code is created and delivered. The other consideration (particularly with Linux) is the educational aspect. Any dummy can install Windows and still end up knowing nothing about computers, just like anyone can drive a car without knowing how an engine works. That's great until something breaks, leaving you stranded and desperate and completely dependent on someone else to save you. Learning to install and use Linux is like building a kit-car. All the major components are prefabricated, but you have to put them together. For some people this is just too much effort, but for others it's an opportunity to learn a skill, acquire generalized knowledge and have some fun.

jeremy wrote:
Nothing like apt-get in Debian. I don't believe anything could provide a more seamless upgrade path. I've got some Debian systems that would be getting onto five years since the initial install, yet they're still 100% up-to-date and very clean.

No kidding. Yesterday I upgraded my Debian box to RAID-5 without having to reinstall anything. I had to shuffle the files around a bit to create the partitions and it took a few reboots. At one point I borked my LILO (changed the /boot partition without updating lilo.conf) and had to borrow a CD-Rom drive from another box long enough to use Knoppix to rescue it. Other than that it was quite painless.

Prometheus wrote:
Someone (i'm too lazy to look back and see who) said that linuix has a "bash" or a command line. Is this like the DOS command line?

Actually, it's like the *new* command line that Microsoft will be adding to Windows "Longhorn" (the WinXP replacement due in 2006 or 2007 or...).


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Pikachu
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24 Jul 2005, 4:05 pm

How is linux good? you say!

It doesn't crash every 5 minutes, where as windows does!


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Last edited by Pikachu on 29 Aug 2005, 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

jb814
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04 Aug 2005, 6:26 pm

Well said Jeremy.
I'm using SUSE 9.3 at present and the only drive that I have to unmount manually is the floppy. CD and DVD will be unmounted for me when I push the button. It may take a few months but it will get into Debian (my other Distro) as they make sure it is very stable before inclusion.



PaulB
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04 Aug 2005, 7:40 pm

Linux is good if you know what you are doing. I would probably use it, if I didn't work with Microsoft Windows at work and use a laptop at home (finding Linux drivers for all the laptop components just isn't worth it). I wouldn't suggest that my grandmother use Linux, though. I'd tell her to get a Mac.


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tokaia
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13 Aug 2005, 1:45 am

Sarcastic_Name wrote:
What makes Linux allegedly better than all other OS's? What's so special about it?

I know it's open source, but I have loose grasp as to what that means. What language is used in open source, etc. ?

I ask because I plan on building a computer some time this Summer or Fall (depends on overall cost), and am considering using Linux as an OS. It'd also be nice to have a list of compatible hardware.



I think people consider it better because its open source and supposedly "easy" to get software for it., and supposedly impervious to virii and hackers. I used MandrakeLinux (said to be the most user-friendly version) for a while, and found it to be unbelieveably difficult. Installing new programs was a b*tch because I could not find the executable file to run the program. I couldn't play any of my favorite games on it. Nobody made antivirus software for it. It slowed down my computer, blew to shreds any possibilty of using a simple paint program, and its feel was unfamiliar and odd. Try as I might on forums, nobody would tell me anything I wanted to know. I learn my way around OS's by trial and error, and going "where I shouldn't" (system folders). I asked how to login to my computer as root so I could take a look around, and all I got was, "Oh, you don't want to do that. You'll mess it up." Of COURSE I want to do that! I KNOW I can mess it up! All I'd need to do is reinstall it! :roll: Really... Must it be so hard to get a straight answer out of those people?

Anyways, I'm smarter than the average person when it comes to computers. But I couldn't figure out Linux to save my life. You'd have to be a programmer to even begin to understand it. :x I just got on Ebay and bought Windows. I love Windows...



Pikachu wrote:
How is linux good? you say!

It doesn't crash every 5 minutes, where as windows does!


Thats to blame on the computer itself, or the user.

I've never had a problem, unless I was doing something I shouldn't, or installed something that wasn't compatible with my hardware/software.



Psychlone
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13 Aug 2005, 8:35 am

Tokaia, have you tried Ubuntu linux? If you want to give that a try, and you have any problems, ask here and I can help in most instances.



eamonn
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13 Aug 2005, 12:54 pm

Windows is better for the majority because not everyone wants to sit in front of a computer all day personalising linux and finding compatible programs when they could be doing something they enjoy.



alex
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13 Aug 2005, 1:03 pm

eamonn wrote:
Windows is better for the majority because not everyone wants to sit in front of a computer all day personalising linux and finding compatible programs when they could be doing something they enjoy.


I seem to take more time "personalizing" Windows (for friends!! !), or more accurately, removing spyware, than I do "personalizing" (actually personalizing) one of my own Linux machines.


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eamonn
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13 Aug 2005, 1:14 pm

Well my half-brother is on his computer all the time and keeps on going on about linux but i find windows really user friendly unlike linux and id say its people like me that arent hard core computer enthusiasts that windows is trying to entice and thats why they have taken over. Bill Gates and Microsft have taken over partly to do with good business sense but if a free OS was as user friendly then there is no way that windows would be number 1 imo. Anyway i tend to find linux people pretentious rather than people who just want their computer to do its job and so get windows.



Psychlone
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13 Aug 2005, 7:02 pm

But windows crashes and has a bunch of spyware and virus crap that infests it.



eamonn
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13 Aug 2005, 7:16 pm

If linux was as accesible id buy that because i dont really want to make Bill Gates any richer. Does anyone know what Cydoor.TOPicks.a comes from as its the one Adware thingy that i cant remove with my Anti-Spy app.



tokaia
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15 Aug 2005, 10:32 am

Psychlone wrote:
Tokaia, have you tried Ubuntu linux? If you want to give that a try, and you have any problems, ask here and I can help in most instances.


Sad to say, I was a bit scarred by my experience with Linux. I don't think I'll be trying it again. :(



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16 Aug 2005, 6:12 pm

Linux is fine for normal people, not necessarily if they like to tinker or want to learn to program, but if they have *some* desire to learn more about things, and are willing to take responsibility in the use of their computer.

It seems a lot of people aren't really willing to take the time to learn or figure out how to use computers or software. I always hate having to "fix" someone's computer, and I end up at some point with a username/password prompt, or having to configure their email or whatever, and they have no damn idea what their password or anything is.

As long as you're not one of those people, you have a little patience, and a desire to figure stuff out, you'll be fine with Linux.

I do have to agree with the comment about elitism, though. Many Linux folks can be completely irrational and rude about anything other than open source software, etc, people who spout Paul Graham 24/7 and refuse to solve a problem 'cause the solution can't be expressed in Ruby or something. Above all, it's important to consider your options and use the right tool for the job.



Psychlone
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17 Aug 2005, 12:23 am

Nuttdan, not all Linux users are elitists. There are many who are perfectly willing to help newbies....



Jetson
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17 Aug 2005, 12:59 am

eamonn wrote:
Windows is better for the majority because not everyone wants to sit in front of a computer all day personalising linux and finding compatible programs when they could be doing something they enjoy.

Heh. Some of us enjoy personalizing our Linux box. It's the journey that counts, not the destination. Besides, with the exception of games I can find a free open-source version of almost any program I'd care to run on Windows without having to spend major dollars or resorting to piracy. It's also nice to know I can connect my Linux box to the internet and access it from outside the house without exposing myself to script kiddies.


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Jetson
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17 Aug 2005, 1:04 am

tokaia wrote:
Sad to say, I was a bit scarred by my experience with Linux. I don't think I'll be trying it again. :(

There are several Linux distros available in the "Live CD-Rom" format. Those ones boot right from the CD-Rom and run without installing anything on the hard drive, so you can learn without making any changes to your system and with no commitment (beyond the price of a blank CD-R). Knoppix and Ubuntu are the two most common versions. You can download ISO images from the internet and burn them to CD-R yourself or contact a Linux User Group and they'll give you one for free.


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