Why do people say that Linux is not user-friendly?

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They go only by what they see or hear, not by firsthand experience. Back a decade ago this probably would have been true with the command interface, nowadays developers are working towards making Linux as user friendly as a Mac and as visually appealing as Windows Vista.

Now if only they could churn out some decent video drivers....then we're good

I'm running Windows now, but I'm going to install Virtual Box and put the latest Ubuntu on it.

EDIT: I think people are going by what they heard 5 years ago and not by what's happening now.

By all accounts, the open-source drivers for Nvidia and ATI are coming along quite nicely and under very active development. In the meantime, there are proprietary drivers for both that work just fine.

ATI's drivers need work and I'm using a fairly recent chipset, NVidia's drivers do their job just fine though. I would have gone back to a dual boot if it weren't for that

It took more than pressing a button last time I tried it. I had to download windows drivers and wrap them. And getting wireless to work was a nightmare.

I have probly installedlinux around 15-20 times over the years. Only once have I bothered with the arsing around needed to get sound & wireless to work. When they worked it was OK. But no better than OK.

So far I haven't had to pay for windows so no advantage there. But really, for the time taken to linux working 'properly' I could have just carried on working and earned enough to buy a brand new machine with windows already installed.

If tinkering with this stuff is your idea of fun then fine. But don't be trying to tell us that this passes for 'user friendly'.

If you are telling us that sound,wireless and everything else will work first time with no extra mucking about I may try it again. But I'm really not in any rush.

The latest release of Linux Mint works flawlessly with absolutely no end-user configuration necessary. My wifi worked even on the livecd, and I remember it being a nightmare to get working the first time I tried Linux.

By contrast, when I install Windows, I have to wait an hour for it to install, another hour or two for it to download and install various updates, and then I have a useless bare-bones system. I have to go out somewhere and find a PDF reader, Flash player, web browser, office suite, e-mail client, IM client, etc ad nauseam. On top of that the base Windows installation is not prepared to do any serious work or programming. I find a lot less tinkering is required before you can be productive in Linux than in Windows.

You do pay for Windows. It's just added to the price of the computer.

If Operating Systems Ran The Airlines...

UNIX Airways

Everyone brings one piece of the plane along when they come to the airport. They all go out on the runway and put the plane together piece by piece, arguing non-stop about what kind of plane they are supposed to be building.

Air DOS

Everybody pushes the airplane until it glides, then they jump on and let the plane coast until it hits the ground again. Then they push again, jump on again, and so on...

Mac Airlines

All the stewards, captains, baggage handlers, and ticket agents look and act exactly the same. Every time you ask questions about details, you are gently but firmly told that you don't need to know, don't want to know, and everything will be done for you without your ever having to know, so just shut up.

Windows Air

The terminal is pretty and colourful, with friendly stewards, easy baggage check and boarding, and a smooth take-off. After about 10 minutes in the air, the plane explodes with no warning whatsoever.

Windows NT Air

Just like Windows Air, but costs more, uses much bigger planes, and takes out all the other aircraft within a 40-mile radius when it explodes.

Windows XP Air

You turn up at the airport,which is under contract to only allow XP Air planes. All the aircraft are identical, brightly coloured and three times as big as they need to be. The signs are huge and all point the same way. Whichever way you go, someone pops up dressed in a cloak and pointed hat insisting you follow him. Your luggage and clothes are taken off you and replaced with an XP Air suit and suitcase identical to everyone around you as this is included in the exorbitant ticket cost. The aircraft will not take off until you have signed a contract. The inflight entertainment promised turns out to be the same Mickey Mouse cartoon repeated over and over again. You have to phone your travel agent before you can have a meal or drink. You are searched regularly throughout the flight. If you go to the toilet twice or more you get charged for a new ticket. No matter what destination you booked you will always end up crash landing at Whistler in Canada.

OSX Air:

You enter a white terminal, and all you can see is a woman sitting in the corner behind a white desk, you walk up to get your ticket. She smiles and says "Welcome to OS X Air, please allow us to take your picture", at which point a camera in the wall you didn't notice before takes your picture. "Thank you, here is your ticket" You are handed a minimalistic ticket with your picture at the top, it already has all of your information. A door opens to your right and you walk through. You enter a wide open space with one seat in the middle, you sit, listen to music and watch movies until the end of the flight. You never see any of the other passengers. You land, get off, and you say to yourself "wow, that was really nice, but I feel like something was missing"

Windows Vista Airlines:

You enter a good looking terminal with the largest planes you have ever seen. Every 10 feet a security officer appears and asks you if you are "sure" you want to continue walking to your plane and if you would like to cancel. Not sure what cancel would do, you continue walking and ask the agent at the desk why the planes are so big. After the security officer making sure you want to ask the question and you want to hear the answer, the agent replies that they are bigger because it makes customers feel better, but the planes are designed to fly twice as slow. Adding the size helped achieve the slow fly goal.

Once on the plane, every passenger has to be asked individually by the flight attendants if they are sure they want to take this flight. Then it is company policy that the captain asks the passengers collectively the same thing. After answering yes to so many questions, you are punched in the face by some stranger who when he asked "Are you sure you want me to punch you in the face? Cancel or Allow?" you instinctively say "Allow".

After takeoff, the pilots realize that the landing gear driver wasn't updated to work with the new plane. Therefore it is always stuck in the down position. This forces the plane to fly even slower, but the pilots are used to it and continue to fly the planes, hoping that soon the landing gear manufacturer will give out a landing gear driver update.

You arrive at your destination wishing you had used your reward miles with XP airlines rather than trying out this new carrier. A close friend, after hearing your story, mentions that Linux Air is a much better alternative and helps.

Linux Air

Disgruntled employees of all the other OS airlines decide to start their own airline. They build the planes, ticket counters, and pave the runways themselves. They charge a small fee to cover the cost of printing the ticket, but you can also download and print the ticket yourself.

When you board the plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench and a copy of the seat-HOWTO.html. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane leaves and arrives on time without a single problem, the in-flight meal is wonderful. You try to tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, "You had to do what with the seat?"

You had to do what with the seat?

http://www.tldp.org/LDP/LGNET/issue45/orr.html
http://linuxgazette.net/issue46/orr.html
http://linuxgazette.net/issue49/orr.html

Debian Testing is a very user-friendly rolling-release distro.


Hm. In Mint, I have never had to use the command line for basic tasks (I have occasionally for some arcane biology-related programs, but those have be be run from the command line in Windows too). I also didn't have to sit around installing crap, aside from the user applications I wanted (chess programs, bioinformatics tools, IDEs, etc) that wouldn't really make sense to bundle into the default configuration of any operating system. On Windows I had to install the JRE, Flash, a PDF reader, an office suite, a web browser, e-mail client, and the list goes on. Windows is simply not a functioning system on installation. Most mainstream GNU/Linux distributions are.

Ahh good we can go back to agreeing on some issues, I have linux mint installed on my desktop and lappy, the desktop has a nvidia GPU so the os asked me to install the proprietary driver and that was it, the lappy had all drivers installed. Mint by not being so anal about the proprietary issue has delivered an OS that works FULLY out of the box, as Orwell points out this does not just mean the standard linux os software eg fully functioning and MS compatible office suite, browsers, powerful graphics suite etc but also all the codecs, pdf readers, and propitiatory drivers. This is not to say that mint or any linux distro has it completely right, but they are a long way ahead of the pack. Although lurking just on the horizon is the potentially disastrous own goal that is Gnome 3 and its dumb-ass shell. As for Winders 7 it is a vast improvement on its 1st cousin Vista, but I am not convinced that it is better than XP, with the exception of the eye candy and the fact that you dont need a floppy to install the Sata drivers

People that don't know computers very well don't think Linux is user-friendly because some things require some UNIX commands. Other OSs also do, but, Linux uses it noticeably more.

Ah, the LOL. The mark of unintelligence. Do you use your little catch phrase disingenuously, or are you really sitting there simulating a tweaked out meth-head?

People that act like you are great for Linux. The loathing that such puerile behavior generates in sophisticated people is sufficient to chase them away from windows. So thank you.

A certain portion of those will move to OS X, and while they will find that people there are not necessarily technical, they certainly are more mature. Finding this they will be pleased and stay.

This, coincidently is the path that Orwell's dad took. A windows user at work, he chose to provide his family with apple products. So Orwell, while shielded from technical details, found Linux to indeed be user friendly. After a lifetime of Apple hand holding, he plunged right into Linux and does very well.

A small portion of dissatisfied windows users will be curious about Linux. I was one of those. An even smaller portion of OS X users yearn to grow and learn, and they come too. This is what Orwell did, and I was happy to assist him. Things did not work perfectly for him, but overcoming those travails is something he wasn't afraid of. He, like most Linux users have an interest in learning and enhancing their knowledge. We wish to become more proficient, to deepen our understanding. Its too bad it cannot be done in windows: we have to look elsewhere.

Now user friendliness is an interesting thing. In any operating system it refers first to a low barrier of entry. That Linux and OS X install with drivers, web browsers, email clients and office suites already present means that a new user can do something immediately. Windows simply does not have this at default. Whether you buy office or use open office, in windows you are not going to have instant gratification.

Your vapid post succeeded in showing that you have no respect for curiosity, patience, fortitude, knowledge and the desire to learn. These are hallmarks of adulthood! So be it: you respect 'teh LOLZ' and I guess that perhaps is as much as we can expect from you.

I've tried two versions of Ubuntu on two different computers but ended up removing it. I'd love to be able to use Ubuntu but on both occasions I had hardware compatibility problems - primarily a lack of drivers. I spent hours on forums and trying various suggestions but gave up in the end. I don't have the time and patience to devote to making it work. I gather people are often lucky and that Ubuntu installs and everything runs fine. If it doesn't then it can be a real nightmare for a newbie to get running properly.

Right. Dial up modem drivers in one case.

Why does a man in your line of work live out in the sticks anyway?

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/i ... ticks.html

Living out in the sticks with my profession isn't the problem, but being stuck with dial-up internet is a real bind!

The other problem I had with Ubuntu was it kept putting my laptop screen into power saving "half brightness" mode. At bootup it was full brightness but towards the end of the Ubuntu bootup sequence it dropped it into dim mode. Ubuntu knew it was running on mains power not battery and I could find no solution to this annoying issue. The F7 / F8 brightness keys were completely ignored too.