Windows Eight

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Orwell
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09 Aug 2010, 9:55 am

Asp-Z wrote:

The thing about 32-bit Snow Leopard is crap. The kernel of SL dosen't run at 64-bit by default. You can hack it to do so, but it'd be damn slow. Apps, however, can still run in 64-bit mode, as many do on my MacBook.

Lies. Running a 64-bit kernel would not be slow. And no, you can't run Snow Leopard in 64-bit unless you are on the newest Macbook Pros. Apple sold me a laptop with a 64-bit processor and they absolutely refuse to allow me to boot the 64-bit SL kernel on it. They have an artificial lock to prevent it. They also attempted to have an artificial block on running 64-bit Windows, but I was able to get around that one.

Oh sure, individual apps have some stupid hack to run fake-64-bit mode, just like early 16-bit Windows had some emulation layer to fake-run 32-bit programs. Having a 64-bit file manager isn't that big a deal. A 64-bit kernel would be much more useful.

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Asp-Z
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09 Aug 2010, 10:31 am

Orwell wrote:

Asp-Z wrote:

Wanna run the 64-bit kernel? Hold the "6" and "4" buttons as the Mac's booting, it ain't hard. But from what I've read, it does run slowly.

The apps run at 64-bit level, the performance is the same, unless you're running some sort of advanced app that needs 64-bit performance at kernel level, there's barely any difference.

Orwell
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09 Aug 2010, 10:54 am

Asp-Z wrote:

Wanna run the 64-bit kernel? Hold the "6" and "4" buttons as the Mac's booting, it ain't hard. But from what I've read, it does run slowly.

That is not true. Except on some MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, and new iMac models, the 64-bit kernel is completely disabled no matter what buttons you push during boot-up. You can't run 64-bit OS X on a MacBook, and they'll do their damdest to keep you from running 64-bit Windows as well.

If it runs slowly, it's because Apple failed at implementing it. I've been running 64-bit Linux kernels on my MacBook since 2008 with no performance cost whatsoever. I've also run 64-bit BSD kernels with no trouble, and the Darwin kernel underneath Snow Leopard is based on those.

Quote:

The apps run at 64-bit level, the performance is the same, unless you're running some sort of advanced app that needs 64-bit performance at kernel level, there's barely any difference.

Yeah, I actually kind of do need the performance when I run various numerical analysis tools.

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Asp-Z
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09 Aug 2010, 11:01 am

Orwell wrote:

Tried this?

Quote:

Yeah, I actually kind of do need the performance when I run various numerical analysis tools.

Then either try the hack I linked to or buy a new Mac. You can't expect old hardware to fully support the new software forever, you know. My iPod touch, for example, can't run iOS 4, but it's three years old and is already as slow as hell in 3.1.3, so I accept I need new hardware for those features.

In fact, the multitasking can even slow down my 3GS, I need an iPhone 4 really. But I digress.

Orwell
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09 Aug 2010, 12:03 pm

Asp-Z wrote:

Tried this?

I'm in Linux now. I'll give that a shot later, but based on the comments I doubt it would work.

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Then either try the hack I linked to or buy a new Mac.

Other solution: screw Apple, use Linux. My next computer will not be a Mac.

Quote:

You can't expect old hardware to fully support the new software forever, you know.

BS. Apple advertized that Snow Leopard would support all Intel Macs, and they sold it to me claiming that it was their first fully 64-bit OS. After I purchased it, it turns out that it's not actually 64-bit. My laptop is perfectly capable of running a 64-bit OS (it's doing so at this very moment) but Apple has put a completely arbitrary lock that prevents me from running 64-bit Snow Leopard. There is absolutely no technical basis for this decision. They sold me hardware and then attempted to prevent me from having software that would be able to make full use of that hardware.

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Asp-Z
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09 Aug 2010, 12:40 pm

Orwell wrote:

Yeah well, I have to jailbreak my iPhone to run Cydia and edit a plist on the second gen iPod touch and iPhone 3G to enable multitasking and backgrounds, but hey, that's life and that's technology. I'll be more than happy to take your Mac off your hands if you're not happy with it :wink:

Orwell
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09 Aug 2010, 1:34 pm

Asp-Z wrote:

Correction: that's Apple. Linux runs reasonably on this machine, so I'll continue using it until I have need to get a new one. I am annoyed with Apple's dishonest and deceptive advertizing and their arbitrary restrictions on what I can do with my computer.

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Ichinin
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09 Aug 2010, 1:45 pm

Every once in a while, MS release an OS they think will sell very well, sometime they name that os Windows ME, sometimes they name it Vista. The next time they name out such an os, it will probably be called "Windows 8".

-"Windows 8 - now with more crap you don't need, don't want or haven't asked for".

I think they just should stop bothering with every 2 other OS'es and develop the next one right away. Games is the only thing that keeps me and lots of others from jumping off the ship.

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Jookia
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09 Aug 2010, 2:55 pm

Microsoft aren't even embracing gaming. They have sticky keys by default and a poor OpenGL implementation.

Fuzzy
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09 Aug 2010, 10:07 pm

Asp-Z wrote:

I'm pretty sure Vista Ultimate cost about that in it's day. But anyways, ya wanna know how much it cost me to upgrade to Snow Leopard? £25. Quite a bit cheaper than even Windows 7 Basic.

No it was 140 bucks. I put it on my brothers new computer. Again, you are missing the point that your OS is subsidized by your hardware. Imaginary savings.

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Asp-Z
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10 Aug 2010, 3:01 am

Fuzzy wrote:

Asp-Z wrote:

I'm pretty sure Vista Ultimate cost about that in it's day. But anyways, ya wanna know how much it cost me to upgrade to Snow Leopard? £25. Quite a bit cheaper than even Windows 7 Basic.

No it was 140 bucks. I put it on my brothers new computer. Again, you are missing the point that your OS is subsidized by your hardware. Imaginary savings.

But again, my hardware gets a good resale value, whereas old Vista discs are practically worthless now, as are old PCs. I could sell my MacBook right now for about the same price as a brand new PC laptop.

Keith
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10 Aug 2010, 4:12 am

Jookia wrote:

Microsoft aren't even embracing gaming. They have sticky keys by default and a poor OpenGL implementation.

Halo for the Xbox online - removed
openGL for Windows 6.x - MS believe that DirectX used ONLY for Windows PC and Xbox is better than openGL

Microsoft implement restrictions into their operating systems. Windows 95b and 95c will support FAT32, but only a partition size no larger than 32GB
Windows 98 will support partitions up to 64GB
Windows ME/2000 (DOS and NT) unknown to me
Windows XP - DirectX9.0c (openGL is more than capable of DirectX (NEW features)
Windows Vista 64bit RAM limit (8GB-128GB)
Windows Seven up to 192GB
x64 supports 16EB RAM

Microsoft are selling something that will be useless in the next couple years FORCING people to buy am upgrade or upgrade key to upgrade the memory restriction.

You pay for limits. It's like paying for a subscription for no adverts and you still get them

Fuzzy
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10 Aug 2010, 5:44 am

Keith wrote:

Jookia wrote:

Microsoft aren't even embracing gaming. They have sticky keys by default and a poor OpenGL implementation.

Thank you Keith. You could also mention that individual applications have a ram limit.

So that suggests that MS is actively impeding hardware development. Especially something like windows Seven starter which only accepts 2 gigs of ram or 1/96th of the limit of Seven ultimate.

With 4 gigs being standard in 2010, and maxwells useless law claiming a doubling every 18 months, how many years will it be until the 16 exabyte limit is reached? An exabyte is a billion gigs.

year - standard - accumulated remainder
--------------------
2010 - 4 gigs
2012 - 8 gigs - 6 months
2014 - 16 gigs - 12 months
2015 - 32 gigs - 0 months
2017 - 64 gigs - 6m
2018 - 128 - 12
2019 - 256 -0
2021 - 256 -6
2023 - 512 -12
2024 - 1024
... only 1/16000th of the way there.

I'll stop there. Windows Seven Ultimate should suffice as is for the next 8 years or so(according to maxwell). How likely do you think it is that MS will wait that long to release a "windows Eight"? Are they likely to ease the ram limits?

More importantly, do you think the hardware developers will wait that long? Even in 2006 the computer I purchased was fully 64 bit capable. Will they really wait for 40 more years to release 128 bit machines?

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CloudWalker
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10 Aug 2010, 6:47 pm

I think it's fair to say that after M$ released DX9 and before the release of OpenGL 3.0, OpenGL lagged behind DirectX. The situation became worse after DX10 and even now OpenGL 4 can only barely catch up with DX11.

I don't know why someone said Windows' OpenGL implementation is bad. Basically with every OS, you have to download and install proprietary drivers to get the best performance. True, Windows doesn't come with hardware accelerated OpenGL drivers, but I don't think any "gamer" would use the stock GPU drivers anyway.

Keith wrote:

Windows Vista 64bit RAM limit (8GB-128GB)
Windows Seven up to 192GB
x64 supports 16EB RAM

I have to wonder how much RAM your motherboard can support for it to be a concern? Except for the starter edition and 32-bit editions, the version of Windows you can buy at the time you buy a motherboard supports orders of magnitude the maximum of RAM any mainstream motherboards can use.

Jookia
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10 Aug 2010, 7:20 pm

CloudWalker wrote:

I don't know why someone said Windows' OpenGL implementation is bad. Basically with every OS, you have to download and install proprietary drivers to get the best performance. True, Windows doesn't come with hardware accelerated OpenGL drivers, but I don't think any "gamer" would use the stock GPU drivers anyway.

I dunno, I think they've done something wrong. I can run a game that gets glitches in Windows 7, but in Arch Linux under WINE it runs fine. The game uses OpenGL.

danieltaiwan
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11 Aug 2010, 7:33 pm

Windows 8 will be probably MicroKernel Based so they will be discontinuing NT. I think 7 will be the last Windows NT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Midori

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