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cubolazaruka
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23 Jan 2014, 5:58 pm

No turing machine can be a universal translator, since I can invent a language called Jabbish that no turing machine can translate into English. Jabbish is made up of sequences of programmes. Halting (non-halting) programs are represented with 1 (0) and the resulting binary code must be translated into ASCII to form an English translation. However there is no algorithm for solving the halting problem.



binaryodes
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24 Jan 2014, 2:52 am

Perhaps in a million years when computational power reaches the point where all possible permutations can be calculated in a split second we'll be able to simultaneously generate all possibilities and select the most context appropriate translation. Some languages would be impossible to translate (this happens in trek) but its not entirely unfeasible.

What has been rather conspicuously missing from this thread is mention of self aware AI. Imo a UT would have to be sentient in order to process the complex social context surrounding language

The following sentence is an english analogue describing a musical passage: cos~glue shtick lar-reg

Cos glue is glucose reversed and refers to the overall impression provided by the music. Glucose > sugar > sweet
Shtick is premodified by glue and indicates that the following word will describe tempo.
Lar-reg is regular reversed.

The beginning and end are to have the same transformational process applied which in this case is the reversal.

This is obviously nonsensical and no current technology would be capable of picking it apart. But a sufficiently intelligent computer could generate a virtually infinite number of possible translations. Assuming that its a cybernetic implant a trasnhuman of the future capable of considering these possibilities simultaneously could do the rest of the computational legwork.

To say that its impossible doesnt seem right to me particualrly since were analysisng this from a decidedly non transhuman position, that is our biology doesnt permit us to readily access the types of intellectual states that such universal translation would necessitate.


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Cornflake
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24 Jan 2014, 8:58 am

binaryodes wrote:
But a sufficiently intelligent computer could generate a virtually infinite number of possible translations.
And it would therefore require "virtually infinite" resources with which to manage it, too.

I think Eric76 nailed it perfectly with "What you want is to develop a device that has complete knowledge instantly without any learning at all."
Even conceptually, never mind including considerations of AI, "intelligence" and piles of hardware - this isn't going to happen.


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eric76
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24 Jan 2014, 9:21 am

Would a universal translator need to translate animal sounds to the extent that they convey information?

For example, Dolphinese -> English and English -> Dolphinese?

Also, how would a universal translator handle concepts in the language that is being translated that do not even exist in the language of the listener?



eric76
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24 Jan 2014, 9:29 am

I wonder if a translator could be built that would translate James Joyce's Finnegan's Wake into American English.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnegans_Wake.



ruveyn
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25 Jan 2014, 8:32 am

binaryodes wrote:
So is a translatoor capable of immediately translating a language a la Trek even scientifically possible? I would posit no since there would be no way to establish a conceptual reference. You could work out the grammatical rules... if the languyage is internally consistent but actually working out that Ga'Lurya refers to a tree in the middle of summer populated by parakeets is more problematic


The complete semantics of a language cannot be encapsulated in a manageable set of rules.

That is why languages have to be -learned-.

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26 Jan 2014, 12:31 pm

[img][800:321]http://www.madsciencecomic.com/comics/2009-06-29translator.jpg[/img]