Do you believe in Multiverse theory?
Endless permutations like that would quickly unravel any parallels of a multiverse.
Not really. Each and every quantum effect splits off a pair of universes. That results in a rather large, but still finite number of universes.
I meant the idea of split universes remaining identical is not really viable.
If two universes are identical, they are the same universe.
If two universes are almost identical, they are almost identical.
If two universes were almost identical, but the next event causes them to become identical, then they have become the same universe.
I quite like the idea that there may be some tendency for universes to do this, and then you can get to the concept of a large, but finite, number of universes.
Maybe this is true pastafarianism?
No, you can't unburn something, or unring a bell. Some things will prevent any event that would allow them to return to being identical.
Just because two things are identical does not mean they are the same, any more than twins are the same person, or a mass produced product is the same physical object. One might be broken, the other not.
I'm afraid you have completely missed the point.
When I say that two universes are identical, I mean just that.
What that has to do with "un-burning" or "un-ringing a bell" I have no idea.
I also have no idea what your "thing" might be, that would "prevent" events. A deity?
You then give examples of items in a single universe, which is not the subject of this thread.
I was hinting at the idea that there might be a principle that we currently do not know about that, whilst allowing many different universes to gaily split off from one another, actually results in them joining back up on a regular basis. A multiverse like splattered mercury, with surface tension drawing things back together.
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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer
techstepgenr8tion
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What I was going to say earlier - I still don't see where the 'substance' of the many worlds theory comes from. I get that with QM a particle can be in infinitely many places but I still don't know what that means or if it necessarily means a bubble universe constantly boiling out copies of itself with every movement that occurs within it. The idea just seems wrong and ludicrous at so many levels but primarily because it first it takes the assumption that choices are made. There's still no proof that I've seen that 'choice' is any more real than a chemical having two good reagents to mix with but with one of slightly higher preference slightly farther away - ie. when the fork in the road is reached the decision is technically already made, there's no other outcome to have happen unless, if you went to that exact point in time again, the conditions changed - which we have no proof and no reason to think that such things would occur.
That also brings up - some people keep claiming that QM = free will, I have no idea what they're saying there either - clearly they say that Newtonian physics claims full determinism but, as far as I can tell, the randomness of quantum physics simply presents - not non-determinism but rather just more complex determinism. My (could be right, could be wrong) interpretation of Newtonian vs. what I'd call QM determinism; under both you will be eating the same exact thing the same exact time in the same exact place for lunch on July 7th 2019; the difference being that under Newtonian man could gather enough data to predict today (if our technology and data gathering techniques were better and beyond the Butterfly Effect and all the other ripple forces), whereas under QM there is too much randomness and while you would eat the same exact thing for lunch on July 7th 2019 we would never have the means to predict it because the contribution of randomness is too great - BUT - random results as they're fixed in time are still as firm as anything else and likely. My own speculation - we still haven't seen any teleology for randomness up until this point I really doubt that this seeming randomness is even as random as we think. Even if QM is fully random at the lowest level it still seems like our desire to call it non-determinism 'because we can't predict or measure it' sounds like a cognitive glitch where we're not stepping back to say "Oh yeah, I forgot, my inability to measure it doesn't mean it isn't still fixed in time" - that seems like a human problem rather than a material one.
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The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.
Just because two things are identical does not mean they are the same, any more than twins are the same person, or a mass produced product is the same physical object. One might be broken, the other not
I'm afraid you have completely missed the point.
When I say that two universes are identical, I mean just that.
What that has to do with "un-burning" or "un-ringing a bell" I have no idea.
I also have no idea what your "thing" might be, that would "prevent" events. A deity?
You then give examples of items in a single universe, which is not the subject of this thread.
I was hinting at the idea that there might be a principle that we currently do not know about that, whilst allowing many different universes to gaily split off from one another, actually results in them joining back up on a regular basis. A multiverse like splattered mercury, with surface tension drawing things back together.
I think you miss my point. They might split off as identical, but immediately quantum variations would make them not identical on a quantum level, but still the same on a Newtonian level. Soon however, those quantum changes would show up, wind patterns would be different, blowing this piece of paper over here rather than over there, the kitten goes to play with it, the pretty lady pets the kitten, the driver looking at the pretty lady hits a car. In the other split universe, wind blows differently, kitten doesn't run over to play with paper, lady doesn't pet kitten, driver doesn't see lady bend over to pet kitten, no accident happens.
Nope. You are still locked into the split, after which they are NOT identical. You haven't grasped the idea of joins. (Or very large numbers.)
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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer
Nope. You are still locked into the split, after which they are NOT identical. You haven't grasped the idea of joins. (Or very large numbers.)
That's what I've been describing, after the split, they are not identical.
Nope. You are still locked into the split, after which they are NOT identical. You haven't grasped the idea of joins. (Or very large numbers.)
That's what I've been describing, after the split, they are not identical.
... and after the join, they are identical, and hence the same.
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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer
Nope. You are still locked into the split, after which they are NOT identical. You haven't grasped the idea of joins. (Or very large numbers.)
That's what I've been describing, after the split, they are not identical.
... and after the join, they are identical, and hence the same.
They couldn't join. where did you come up with that?
They couldn't join. where did you come up with that?
This is getting tedious. If you do not understand the concept that two identical things are the same thing, then just say so.
From a way back...
If two universes are almost identical, they are almost identical.
If two universes were almost identical, but the next event causes them to become identical, then they have become the same universe.
I don't even think that is much of a concept. I think it comes in what Americans would call "Philosophy 101".
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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer
V guvax gung jbhyq unir orra Ghrfqnl? V fnj gur zvpr gnyxvat.
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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer
techstepgenr8tion
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Hey, you could always grab a wormhole and start killing the other selves for greater power.
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The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.
Multiverse theories always point to infinities. There are no infinities.
My (entirely speculative) point was that there are ways to avoid the infinities.
You can have your multiverse and count it.
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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer
Multiverse theories always point to infinities. There are no infinities.
My (entirely speculative) point was that there are ways to avoid the infinities.
You can have your multiverse and count it.
Would they add up to 42?

Multiverse theories always point to infinities. There are no infinities.
My (entirely speculative) point was that there are ways to avoid the infinities.
You can have your multiverse and count it.
Would they add up to 42?


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"Striking up conversations with strangers is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Kamran Nazeer