Do you think that the universe is infinite in size?

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Adrenaline, I'm sorry but you're not making any sense whatsoever.

I know what I am trying to say,
just I do not know how to put them into words that would help you comprehend what it is I am trying to explain.

That's okay. I am reading your mind.

Reading an undergraduate physics text before you post would be helpful.

OK, lets try this.

Imagine a tornado, at the center is a big black hole.
this tornado at the wide end is the collapse of our known universe,
the length of it is a temporal distortion that extends back (or foreword) to the beginning of known time,
now even though it may take time for everything to get sucked in on one end,
on the other it may get compacted and released all at once creating the next big bang.
so at the beginning of time nothing at all may have existed.
yes there could be the hawking radiations, but you have a big enough black hole even that could get sucked back in.

The universe is clearly finite. This is neither up for debate nor susceptible to personal opinion.

Every process must be initiated, including the Universe. There is no beginning, their is no end, their are only in betweens. It has always been and will always be. Their is not and can not, by the very definition of the word its self, be more than one Universe. Their may be verses or versions contained within the Universe. Uni'verse. If the Universe at some point never was, then what induced its effect? And if this be the case, something Must preclude it. Anyone who says their is more than one Universe or that it is finite has not meditated deeply enough on the issue. Or perhaps have ulterior motives and would like to deceive you.

One's political orientation dictates the effective size of the universe.

The universe you describe is unchanging and static, thats proven to be far from correct.

That is simply your interpretation of my words. We are constantly changing form. An infinite series or parallels can also be considered to be composed of static moments.

Wait

It seems like you're talking about a Riemann sum or something

What?

If there's one thing I have been arguing is that while it may be true that the universe is finite it is not clear. Don't let your presumptions get the best of you. The world is a weird place...

What doesn't follow?
The observations from an expanding universe leads to the theory of the universe starting from a point and expanding ever since, that gives a picture of a finite inflating universe, doesn't make much sense the idea of an infinite expansion since the beginning.

The thought of the universe beginning infinite from a starting point may sound very interesting, but it is a big jump of assumption and perhaps controversial when it comes to the the laws of physics known or assumed and when it comes to the nature of observable science, and I'm not sure how much scientific value would that hold. From what we can gather it is more reasonable to think and perhaps mathematically as well, to concur the universe as finite which is inflating and growing in 'size' from a scientific viewpoint. Otherwise a big bang would not make sense at all, even the concept of an infinite universe having a beginning would not make sense.

We could also argue what is the nature of infinity really is, if it really exists or not, so far the concept of eternity is something we cannot touch for ourselves and merely seem a concept of our own. On the other hand, we could wonder if space is infinite, not the universe, but just space (void if you will) probably most people would think so.

Last edited by greenblue on 18 Sep 2008, 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

From what we gain or assume to gain as evidence so far seem to give a picture of a finite universe, no matter how big, still finite, scientifically speaking.

The idea of the reality of the universe as infinite, I assume that concept might be better suited to metaphysics rather than astronomy and astrophysics, at least I think it would.

It's my interpretation of the facts! one of Einsteins biggest mistakes was assuming that the universe was static, thanks to Hubble we know this to be false due to expansion.

Rule #1: twoshots is never wrong
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html

Rule #2: in the off chance that you think twoshots is wrong... refer back to rule #1
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... ck.html#c5