Why do people say that Linux is not user-friendly?

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scubasteve
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31 Jul 2010, 4:11 pm

LordoftheMonkeys wrote:
scubasteve wrote:
I'm not knocking OS X. It's Apple's software (Quicktime, iTunes) and portable hardware (iPhone, iPod) that are crap. But people know Apple, are comfortable with their products, and therefore iPods appear to be "simpler" than Zen or Archos. Same concept.


Apple's iPods are popular because Apple got there first.


The Creative Nomad, which would later become the Zen, launched in 1999. The first iPod was sold in 2001.



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02 Aug 2010, 1:14 am

LordoftheMonkeys wrote:
My PC, on the other hand, currently has no internet access, and I haven't been able to get it back, even after rebooting it.


Macs are PCs.



BNineFounder
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02 Aug 2010, 11:28 am

Well, anyway, I'm using Linux again for my server after a stint with Windows and I *still* say that Linux servers are not as user-friendly as Windows. If I didn't have backed up config files from my last try at Linux, I would still be configuring the thing.

I know you guys probably think I'm an idiot for preferring GUI config tools over editing text config files, but that's just how my brain works. I have better things to do during the day than sit for hours googling options and values for config files when they should instead be a check-box or radio-button on a GUI config tool instead. What I've been through with Linux servers is NOT user-friendly.



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02 Aug 2010, 4:14 pm

BNineFounder wrote:
Well, anyway, I'm using Linux again for my server after a stint with Windows and I *still* say that Linux servers are not as user-friendly as Windows. If I didn't have backed up config files from my last try at Linux, I would still be configuring the thing.

I know you guys probably think I'm an idiot for preferring GUI config tools over editing text config files, but that's just how my brain works. I have better things to do during the day than sit for hours googling options and values for config files when they should instead be a check-box or radio-button on a GUI config tool instead. What I've been through with Linux servers is NOT user-friendly.


Of course not. Some people really are more visual in the way you are.

What always got me about windows apps is the hidden and undocumented features. Moreso than the after market products, Microsoft itself is very bad for this: a quick look through a registry finds many elements that are untouched by the GUI preferences. They have admitted to be disinclined to document things because of inter-department competition.


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Orwell
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02 Aug 2010, 6:00 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
What always got me about windows apps is the hidden and undocumented features. Moreso than the after market products, Microsoft itself is very bad for this: a quick look through a registry finds many elements that are untouched by the GUI preferences. They have admitted to be disinclined to document things because of inter-department competition.

What's worse: no documentation or poor, often unusable, documentation? I spent a good bit of time trying to figure out how to use ed, including reading its entire man page. Never did get any response from it other than those blasted question marks.


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whitelightning777
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02 Aug 2010, 10:00 pm

I'm currently using Fedora 12 as we speak to type this. I think that people try to use the wrong distros when they first start out. Things like Debian, Gentoo, Slax etc are NOT for the faint of heart.

Newbies should stick with distros like Mepis, Fedora, SuSE (the newer ones), Mint, Mandriva and Cent OS. Basically the GUI and the command line should be both fully developed. I also believe that KDE is far easier to use then Gnome, which gets annoying real quick.

Newbies should also consider going to Borders Books or even Amazon to buy a book on the distro that they decide to use.

They also must commit to downloading and burning at least 3 different live CDs to test with their hardware and then getting the full DVD version. You can install off of the live CD, but the DVD will usually give you more features to choose from.

I would also advise those interested in switching away from M$ to try Open Solaris and PC-BSD as well as the friendly LInux distributions. Open Solaris uses Gnome, but still may be of interest to some. These 2 are true UNIX with a friendly interface, not Linux. PC-BSD is based on Free BSD.

It will probably take more then one live CD test before the best distro for your hardware and network makes itself known. Switching distros is not unusual either within the first 3 months. Be aware that the UNIXs can't read Linux filesystems easily and vice versa. Do you backups on FAT or NTFS if you switch between these.



Ashton
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03 Aug 2010, 7:59 am

LordoftheMonkeys wrote:
For me, it's pretty straightforward. On my distro you can use a desktop that looks like either Windows or Mac, and most everything is already configured. I didn't have to configure the wireless internet access; it was already there when I started it. I also had no problem downloading Firefox onto my hard drive. The only thing I haven't gotten to work is the sound.


You have to remember though, on here most of us are quite "computer literate". To the average user who has only ever seen Windows and wouldn't know the difference between a hard drive and RAM, jumping to Linux is going to be a rude shock. Like, if they buy some hardware and end up having to use the terminal or change some config files to get it working you can guarantee that it's going to be daunting for someone who doesn't know what they're doing. I agree though, I find Linux quite easy to get along with and anything I can't get going I can usually find fairly easily with a search engine.



scubasteve
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03 Aug 2010, 2:22 pm

whitelightning777 - Have you tried Debian lately? I don't find it any more difficult to use than Fedora, and it's certainly not in the same sentence as Slackware or Gentoo. You also forgot (or deliberately left out?) Ubuntu when talking about beginner distros. And I COMPLETELY disagree about KDE being simpler than Gnome - I find it's very easy for even an experienced user to "break" something in KDE, and it's not always easy to find a solution among the multitude of rarely-used options they present you with. Gnome to me is a simpler, more refined interface, where everything I need is there and everything I don't is tucked away neatly in a drawer, as opposed to KDE where everything is just strewn about. ...But other than that, I agree with your post 100% :wink:



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03 Aug 2010, 4:04 pm

scubasteve wrote:
whitelightning777 - Have you tried Debian lately? I don't find it any more difficult to use than Fedora, and it's certainly not in the same sentence as Slackware or Gentoo. You also forgot (or deliberately left out?) Ubuntu when talking about beginner distros. And I COMPLETELY disagree about KDE being simpler than Gnome - I find it's very easy for even an experienced user to "break" something in KDE, and it's not always easy to find a solution among the multitude of rarely-used options they present you with. Gnome to me is a simpler, more refined interface, where everything I need is there and everything I don't is tucked away neatly in a drawer, as opposed to KDE where everything is just strewn about. ...But other than that, I agree with your post 100% :wink:

I definitely think Debian is easier than Fedora (which itself is fairly simple). Ubuntu and especially Mint are dead easy by now, and getting better every release.

I agree that GNOME is friendlier than KDE. KDE4 spent way too long without a properly functioning network manager for me to believe it was "user-friendly."

Also: CentOS for newbies? You gotta be crazy; there's no way Red Hat without the commercial support is any easier than Debian.


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whitelightning777
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03 Aug 2010, 9:51 pm

Windows may be many things, but easy to understand it ain't. Get a novice to try to take ownership of a directory and assign NTFS permissions to it, or to understand a M$ log file. The squealing will get deafening real fast. If we wish to invite disaster, have them try out regedit a few times...

..... Kaboom ! !! :twisted:

What those with limited computer skills need is a GUI type of desktop that is visual, not so much with the command line unless it is super easy. KDE does this job nicely as a desktop. So does Xfce, even though its light weight and a little bit Spartan. 8)

In fact, I would go so far to say that the type of desktop is probably more important for a novice then whatever distro or operating system is underneath it. For example, my nephew who uses Linux howls bitterly if it doesn't run KDE 4 or at least Gnome. He can't stand KDE 3.5.



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03 Aug 2010, 10:20 pm

whitelightning777 wrote:
What those with limited computer skills need is a GUI type of desktop that is visual, not so much with the command line unless it is super easy. KDE does this job nicely as a desktop. So does Xfce, even though its light weight and a little bit Spartan. 8)

In fact, I would go so far to say that the type of desktop is probably more important for a novice then whatever distro or operating system is underneath it. For example, my nephew who uses Linux howls bitterly if it doesn't run KDE 4 or at least Gnome. He can't stand KDE 3.5.

Right, and with the GUI set up the casual user can't even tell if you're running Debian, or Fedora, or even BSD.


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Fuzzy
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04 Aug 2010, 12:07 am

whitelightning777 wrote:
What those with limited computer skills need is a GUI type of desktop that is visual, not so much with the command line unless it is super easy. .


Ah, like the linux netbook distros. For ease of use they blow windows out of the water and really shield the user from the guts of the system.


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