How do you feel about pirates?

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Intellectual property is just a specific way in which people aren't allowed to use their real property. Intellectual property rights are BS in my book.

That's not what the Nazis at the RIAA want people to think.

I am pretty sure you're wrong here. I know it is technically illegal to do this with DVDs (hence handbrake and libdvdcss2 being hosted on servers abroad rather than here in the US), but as I understand it it is completely legal to transfer your CD collection to your iPod. Otherwise how could Apple possibly get away with setting up iTunes to import your CDs? The record labels would have gone after a big corporate infringement like that.


This is partially because a lot of copyright law is incredibly stupid, such as the prohibition on copying DVDs to your personal hard drive. The general principle of intellectual property is valid, but some applications of it in law are terribly botched.

THEY DID, in the past, and LOST!! ! The movie industry tried to sue the invention of VCR that you could record on, because you could record TV or copy tapes with it. RIAA tried to sue the invetion of the cd burner, cd ripping programs, the invention of the mp3 player, file sharing, etc. The courts found that you cant block the advancement of technology inorder to prevent copywright infrindgement, that it is the end user who must follow the law and not use these technologies inorder to infringe of copywrights. That is why the RIAA only choice they are left with is sueing the people who are pirating, and that is why they are doing just that.
Also note that music in digital form and music in cd format are covered under different parts of the copywright laws. Digital music (mp3, etc) are digital, and cds are covered under "phonorecords"


Absolutely! One reason is because the copywright laws are ridiculously outdated, and new technology is being invented everyday, that just makes it more complicated and more outdated. Alot of the laws is not very clear cut to how they apply to newer technology. They keep adding sections to it to cover new stuff (very little new stuff), when the whole thing needs reworked. The sad part is if they start changing things, there will be lawsuits all over again, the RIAA will try all those old suits again, and all hell will break loose, and there is the potentiol that the RIAA and others win the second time around, and we loose a bunch of our rights.

I agree with Orwell in that it's better to boycott from a company that violates your moral code than it is to steal from them. But pirating in general is something I have very little concern about. I don't agree with marketing, so I have a linux, and I only have free programs on it. When it comes to music, I download it only if the band is no longer making new albums, and when it comes to books, I only download it if the author's dead or retired. This is because I support the individual who created it and not the mass market trying drain as much money out of me as possible. Although, I do believe pirating is wrong, I only believe it's wrong to pirate from then people who made it, not the distributors. As such I have no illegally downloaded music because my favorites are still working, and the only book I would download I have had for two rears now in paperback. And for those of you who pirate everything: download from a neighbors router to their computer. Then transfer the files to your computer ONLY when needed. It is legal to do this, but slow. I love legal loopholes.

To me it is a quality issue, I wont pirate music because the quality of pirated music is usually pretty bad (like crappy 128kbps mp3 that are all messed up). I am willing to pay for the music, usually CDs, inorder to get a good quality recording that I can rip lossless to my computer.
Now e-books on the other hand, I believe should be free, I believe knowledge should be free to everyone who wants it. You shouldnt be writing just for profit, and if you are writing only for profit your book is probably lacking a certain quality to it, when people write a book purly for the pashion of the subject they are writing about. People should be writing a book inorder to be able to share there knowledge with people, not to gain any sort of profit, and copywriting books is like saying that knowledge should only be paid for and certain people should only have it. That is just plain wrong, and having a book under copywright I think is wrong. If you want a book to keep, then you should only be paying for the paper that the text is on, and if you want a e-book version of it, that should be free, and if you want to borrow the book, that should be free, just like a library. This is why I support websites like scribd.com (were you can get a large amount of knowledge for free )

Programs, again quality is a issue. I like the mix of free programs, like gnu, public domain stuff, and the programs you pay for. It is a nice mix and gives you many different options, each having there strengths and weaknesses. When it comes to pirating software, I would rather pay for a cheap version of that software then pirate it, because of the quality issue. I dont want to spend 3 months downloading various keygens and patches, only to get a hundred viruses and trojens on my computer, having to wipe my hard drive, never being able to get any of them to work anyway. Then you have the trouble of trying to update pirated software, that is sometimes imposible. I would rather pay for the program, or download a free program

WRONG!
AHRA Section 1008 is either a Compulsive License or a Personal Copy Right.
IT SAYS YOU MAY MAKE PERSONAL RECORDINGS.
IT SAYS BOTH ANALOG AND DIGITAL PHONORECORDS.
IT SAYS YOU CAN NOT BE CHARGED FOR INFRINGEMENT
AS A PERSON.
AHRA IN GENERAL LIMITS PERSONAL COPIES TO PERSONAL NEEDS.
ONLY PUBLISHERS ARE PIRATES. THAT IS WHY PUBLISHERS
ARE PENALIZED SO MUCH MORE THAN FOR WHAT THEY EARNED
BY SELLING ILLEGAL COPIES. AHRA SECTION 1008 CERTAINLY FORBIDS
SUING PEOPLE A YEARS SALARY FOR MP3!
MP3s AREN'T COPIES OF CDs. (NAPSTER NEVER STOLE A CD)
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO COPY A CD TO AN MP3 PLAYER,
SEE THE DIAMOND RIO DECISION, IT DOESN'T COPY SO IT'S LEGAL!
CD COPYING TO CD IS AHRA SECTION 1008 LEGAL.
DVD RECORDING IS BETAMAX LEGAL.
PLAYING A DVD YOU BOUGHT IS NOT ILLEGAL COPYING.
RECORDING THE RADIO IS NOT ILLEGAL COPYING.
BETAMAX:RECORDING TV IS NOT ILLEGAL COPYING.
LINUX: DVD JON WON, YOU CAN WATCH DVDs LEGALLY.
RIAA IS STILL IN DEFAULT FOR ROOTKITS.


WRONG!
AHRA SECTION 1008 MAKES ANALOG AND DIGITAL PHONORECORDS
LEGAL FOR PERSONAL FAIR USE COPYING.
THE CDs and DVDs are TAXED FOR THE PURPOSE OF RECORDING
COPYRIGHTED MUSIC AND VIDEOS ON THEM LEGALLY.

DMCA:I AM SURE NOBODY HERE IS SMART ENOUGH TO HACK ENCRYPTION
AND COPY PROTECTIONS, SO IT DOESN'T APPLY TO MOST PEOPLE.

My own policy is to ignore and avoid buying things they say you own but
can't use. Also, the PROPAGANDA AND LIES are part of a plan to
seize the internet under ACTA and its own GIANT PIRiAATE FLAG, which
is Robbing ARTISTS, MUSIC LISTENERS, and EVERYONE ELSE.

There are piRIAAte and MPAAfia TROLLS ON HERE.

On that site, look at the end of the last rulemaking discussion of the
copyright office. The MPAA actually suggested that people should copy
movies with a camcorder (which is illegal) instead of a DVD recorder
WHICH IS LEGAL.

Since the manufacturers are not making many good fair use recorders for sale,
YOU CAN MAKE OR BUY PROFESSIONAL RECORDERS AND USE THEM LEGALLY.
(Making them is cheaper, and protected by the AHRA 1008, as long as they
do not hack the encryption in any way; there are two possibilities,
exact copy (including encryption), --- probably more expensive
or ordinary recording (unencrypted).

I am not interested in "ILLEGAL" AND USELESS audio and visual mind pollution,
but I do require class equality (professional equipment)
because I am not a Cow Poop Consumer, I produce what the piRIAAtes steal.

Psst. If they seize the internet, Then ALL MUSIC WILL BE FREE OFFLINE.
And the world might end.
But the logic is implied by the fact that all music is already free offline!
The emperor has no clothes!! ! And he lies like the !

HOME RECORDING KILLED THE INDUSTRY FORMERLY KNOWN AS RECORDING,
AND IT IS STILL LEGAL PER AHRA SECTION 1008!

If you don't believe me, don't listen to or look at anything copyrighted,
or your mind will have an illegal copy.
But you can go to the library and get copyrighted Music, Movies, and Books,
and even legally COPY THEM IN THE LIBRARY!
AHRA SECTION 1008 ... IT IS YOUR COPY RIGHTS!

Satellite Radio pleaded AHRA but as a BUSINESS they had no personal rights,
but AHRA says YOU CAN COPY THE RADIO!

I think I already announced the fact that as of 1/1/2010, all music is free offline,
including the music that you would sing and play if you could;
it's preexistence and accessibility is established in simple arithmetic,
actually released thanks to SONY, for another offensive ill-legal action.

It actually is not remotely difficult. Install Ubuntu, sudo apt-get install libdvdcss2 vlc handbrake, and now you can break encryption and copy protection.

yes, Fair Use allows you to make a personal copy for your own use.

Home recording didn't kill the recording industry; it changed it forever. I had a home studio for decades, and wrote hundreds of songs (and Sturgeon is right; 90% of them were crap...

I've done covers of stuff for my own enjoyment, but they're just on my own media (I have a theft-proof storage system; cassette tapes...

Capslock overkill; that is all.

I agree, lol

ValMikeSmith, I believe you have a misunderstanding of what section 1008 means (it is in chapter 10, page 230 for anyone else wanting to read it)

Here it is


First, nothing is implied in the law, so you have to take it for what it says literaly, and that is ALL it means, nothing else. It means EXACTLY what it means, and all definitions to wording are givin in chapter 1
Section 1008 makes it very clear that infringement actions cant be brought against a person for using those technologies. It does not mean anything else other then what it says, you must read it very literal, there are no meaning to it other then exactly what it says.
I also said in my previous post that the courts have already determined threw many lawsuits brought by the RIAA and others, that you cant stop the progress of technology inorder to stop infringement. They determined that it is the responsibility of the user of these technologies to not use them to break copyright laws. That is also backed up in parts of the appendix.
Also remember, like I said in my previous post, cds are covered under "phonorecords", and mp3s are digital recordings, they are covered under different chapters and sections, and the law applies to them differently. Phonorecords or digital recordings are not mentioned in §1008 (remember, it cant be implied that they meant that)

I hate to be so anal, but the law is very anal, and like I said, it is outdated and leaves out many things that are covered in court cases. It is not as simple as reading one section and coming to a conclusion. While reading a section, you must take it word for word exactly what it says, if there is something that it does not say, and is not covered some place else in the law, then the next step is to check to see if there has been a court case about it

Now, am I pro RIAA, anti pirating, absolutely not, I think I made that clear in my last post. I am just trying to make sure I dont mix my personal opinion and the law together. I posted about my opinion on this all in my last post

I used to pirate. I don't anymore. I don't really see it as right or wrong. I don't have any moral sense it is bad, and I don't have any justification when I do.

Mostly I pirate to try something then if it is any good I will buy it. Also some older games are really hard to find without pirating.

Some software is reasonably priced and some is not. As for developer fees and such, Microsoft pays its programmers upfront I would think (no solid proof but I am pretty sure). It is the company raking in the $$$. I think many big studios do as well.

Ethical? no. Morally right? most often no. Do I really think its worth all the fuss? no.

I'm sorry you can't read but the section 1008 is very clear where it says "musical digital recordings" (and musical analog recordings). Which is more specific than phonorecords which basically means any recordings of "phono" = sound. And that it is PERMITTED.

let me try to break this down for you because you still dont seem to understand. I see were you are going wrong in interpreting the law, you are asume since you understand what all those things mean, that you understand the meaning of that section. It does not quit work that way, you might want to start by reading chapter 1, were they give all the definitions and the scope of the law.
Anyway, I will try to break this down


This only covers "Prohibition on certain infringement actions", and says what prohibitions it covers below. This ONLY applies to what it says and nothing else. Like I said earlier you have to take it literal for what it says, you cant imply that it means anything more

No action may be made against a person for manufacture, importation, or distribution. I bold those, because the law is saying that no action can be brought based on simply the manufacture, importation, or distribution of the devices that 1008 covers.
Okay, it says that you cant be charged with infringement by making or importing those devices, the devices being what I have in bold next, digital audio recording devices, digital audio recording medium, analog recording devices, and analog recording medium.
The last part saying that a consumer cant have infringement actions taken against him for using such devices or mediums, for making recordings, digital or analog.
That is all this covers, a example of what it is saying is that infringement actions cant be brought against you for simply buying a cd burner, or blank cds and recording music to them. The law is saying it is okay for you buy a cassette recorder and record music to a cassette.
It DOES NOT say that you can use those devices to break a copyright law, it is only saying that owning or using those devices that it covers is okay and that you cant be punished for using those devices.

I thought it was pretty clear, and I dont know how I can make it any clearer, but if you still want to say I am wrong, I understand, no need to start throwing insults around

You are only breaking the law if you get caught. I read this on a shirt, laughed for thirty seconds, and forgot about it until now. I think it solves a little more than half of the legal issues on pirating. please continue on discussing the off chance that you do get caught.

I read the whole thing.
You bolded some of it but not what I was talking about.

I approve of ALL the things in that section.

I would obtain recording devices.
I would obtain stuff to record on.
I would record music.
I would listen to music.
I WOULD NOT SELL THE MUSIC UNLESS I RECORDED
MY SELF OR FRIEND'S BAND,
BECAUSE COPY RIGHT IS FOR EXCLUSIVE SELLING.

Do you agree that we can record music without
being charged with infringement or not?
I say that we are allowed to record music,
based on the non-bold part.

It is obvious that this whole thread is probably started
by a (C)-TROLL.

The (C)-TROLLs are so evil that the only way to make
them go away is to stop using copies and start listening
to music in such a way that it can be generated without
a recording medium.

Someone please look at this Google problem because it
keeps trying to attack my computer ILLEGALLY, and I
think piRIAAtes are trying to STEAL my music generator
again just like when SONY ruined my computer in 2005,
but they didn't get it because I yanked the plug out.
And my web browser isn't connected to it anymore.

Google is definitely going to hit the fan because of this!
(Browser malfunction)
S.YTIMG.COM
Evil spyware. Google lies and says it's videos from Youtube,
but this isn't Youtube, is it, Google? It turns on the webcam,
and the microphone, and can't be blocked by FIREFOX or
IE or SAFARI or OPERA. The OFF switch, if you can find it,
isn't even connected. Big Brother needs a bloody nose!

Remember, RIAA deserves to be replaced by a
Magic Music Machine. And URGENTLY, before they
use ACTA to steal the World Wide Web!

Page-layout-disturbing link encapsulated by lau
Had to type all that. Hope without typo! S.YTIMG.COM