Deja Vu!!

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I do not know whether I just spelled "Deja Vu" correctly, so maybe I should have named this thread "Groundhog Day" ... but either way ...

I just had *exactly* the same problem as the one of a few days ago, and this time the outcome looks far more promising!

For the sake of perspective here, and even if everyone else already knows:

Windows "Desktop.ini" files in "Documents and Settings" contain account permissions, and I just got quite an education from MS for a mere $59.00.

Here is what happened:

The other day I messed everything up in my Win2k by deleting entire accounts and groups (since nobody but me ever gets on that machine anyway), but this time I was in XP Home in a different machine and I was only trying to re-arrange (move) a friend's shortcuts in the various "Start" menus. Trying to simplify things, I made a backup of all "Start" menu folders and shortcuts, then deleted all the .ini files and created a new user account while thinking XP would thereby provide a "shell" where I could simply re-paste the "Start" folders and shortcuts and be on my way. But after a reboot, I discovered I had lost (deleted) almost all permissions to do just about anything ... and *that* is why I could not download or install anything either the other day in 2k or here on a different machine this evening.

Have I explained that well enough to make some sense?

Tonight I was shocked to find myself with the very same problem on a differet machine with a different OS after doing something I thought was relatively safe, but now I better understand some overall relationships within Windows of any kind.

The overall problem is not yet completely resolved since not two "Administrator" accounts presently have exactly the same permissions, but at least this time the light at the end of the tunnel is not that of a train.

That make sense. The permissions (Access Control List) is stored in the NTFS. When you move a file/folder, the permissions is not changed, so it could end up very different from the target location. "Documents and Settings" is set up so that only the corresponding user and the administrators can access it. If you copy start menu items one account to another, you may not have the permission to access them afterwards. (I assume you do the copying in an admin account, otherwise you shouldn't be able to see it in the first place). An easy way to avoid these hassles is to copy instead of move. A copied item will inherit the permissions of the target location. On XP Pro, there's a security tab on the file/folder properties dialog that let you edit the permissions and fix these kind of errors. I think you have to install Security Configuration Manager on XP Home to see that tab.

Are you talking about your Linux experiment?

There will be users and they will have groups pertaining to different aspects of the system. Leave those groups alone. You can get by on having a root and single user account though.

In any case, yes, you can expect to learn a lot about computers. Most people who experiment with Linux come to understand a lot more about windows too.

No, But I will definitely get back here on that in a few days.



Ah, ah, ah ... and now I finally understand! Thank you. You gave me the bigger picture, and I just now finished a phone conversation with one of the folks at MS who explained it in fine detail. I can delete or copy or move at will *within a single account*, but I absolutely cannot move anything from one user account to another because each shortcut in any account is specifically tagged/tied to that account (just like you said, of course)!

Whew. I was really gettting tired of reinstalling stuff to fix things ... and now get this:

After my first post here, I started a "Chat" with MS and soon began a "Repair Installation" from the OEM disk for the machine in question ... and at the end of that re-installation, none of the account problems had even been touched! So, I am just now going to make this post then click "Next" for "Regional and Language" options ...

... but now I know this will definitely be the last time!

This isn't a dig at you leejosepho, but I sometimes get contacted by people who have managed to wreck their Windows after trying to mess with my software installations. One woman installed my software under her username (only) then decided to share it with someone else on the same computer by dragging and dropping files all over the place by guess-work. In the end she had made her computer completely unstable and started getting system error messages... It was all my fault of course She ended up getting someone to clear up her mess and re-install Windows XP for her.

Oh yes, I understand! Sometimes I just back away from doing something I can almost guarantee will come back and bite me even though my work was quite fine ... kind of like showing a three-year-old how to load a gun.

The deal here is that I finally "moved up" from Win98se only a little under two years ago, and I had long been accustomed to scooting stuff around at will ... and of course, part of my Aspiness includes prudence, frugality and tight organization. So when I first got into 2k and saw all the accounts in spite of the fact I was the only one there, I felt like my machine had suddenly been wastefully invaded. Surely you know all about keeping things "tight and right" like things simply *had* to be in days now past.

Anyway, I now know what I can delete and what I cannot, I think, and I certainly know I cannot move things between accounts no matter how inefficient I might believe the overall setup to be ... and even MicroSoft unwittingly admits there is a problem:



I have had that problem ever since the last time I saw my own Commodore menu several years ago!

I think you meant to say "If you move" at the beginning there, but now I am at a point where I want to be sure I really do understand! I am logged in as "Owner" (Administrator) in XP Home, and I have all other user accounts and even "Guest" logged in also. I have just placed (pasted) a small .exe file (a neat little measure-converter utility) in a new folder in "Program Files" on C:, and I have right-clicked and sent a shortcut to my Desktop ... and now I want that utility available to everyone. So, should I just go into Explorer and copy my own shortcut from my Desktop and paste it into an "All Users" Start-Menu folder?

In Linunx, you just use a simple "chown" (change owner) command to fix that kind of problem. Although I don't think config files for desktop icons and such are usually tied to a user account. Editing privileges might be, but if so you can just use "su" and get all the permissions you need.

Yes, and that makes sense to me.

I am trying to make three sets of XP menus simple for some young children, and I cannot just go into Explorer and do that once-for-all! Instead, I have to go into just one account at a time and "drag and drop" for a while, then go do the very same thing all over again for the next account. At least in Win2k it is possible to simply copy (duplicate) an account as often as necessary after doing all the customizations in just one.

Erm.. no.

What you describe wanting to do, is in fact easy.

There is an "All Users" profile. Put the shortcuts in there, and everyone will see them.

I think there's an option, to do just that, somewhere about the place. However, it can all get pretty tacky.

I tend to do this by going in, with an administrator account, straight into "C:\Program Files" and create myself a directory there, to put any .exe files inside. I'll then create a shortcut to them, by whatever means I feel like (usually just by right clicking on the .exe and "Paste shortcut" to the desktop, to start with. I'll then drag that directly into the "All Users" start menu, maybe under a new directory there.

I also like dragging stuff to the "Quick Launch" toolbar, as I hate bothering with stuff that sits on the desktop, or even having to delve down the start menu, for things I use frequently.

Oh. And of course, make sure you set yourself to "Show all files", otherwise you won't see most of the system's hidden directories, etc. Also, I find the "Hide extensions" option to be insane. The only serious virus event I've been present at was as a direct result of hiding extensions. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILOVEYOU

I understand clearly, Lau, and I thank you for the "safety confirmation"!

Yes, and I do the same ... but then I still have to go back in as each individual user to rearrange and even delete things from his or her "combo" ("All" plus "user") Start menu. I tried to be careful and respectful, but I did tell one of the folks at MicroSoft what I thought about the "insane mess" they call a Start menu. Sure, and 8-year-old in a limited account cannot likely do any great harm, but why are "System Tools" even in "Accessories" in the first place?!



Same here, and I have an issue with programmers who believe they should be able to decide what I should have in my "Quick Launch"!



Again, yes ... and I quietly let one of the MS folks I will continue doing that!

Yeah, I meant to say move. Moving files will cause you trouble with permissions, copying will not.


That should do it.


If it's only the start menu and desktop, you can do all the customizations in one account first, then delete the 2 directories of a second account and then copy the directories from the first account.


I haven't used 2000 myself but I'm not aware of any difference between 2000 and xp in this regard.

Not that I do not believe you, but that I do not yet see that kind of action and effect clearly enough to go try/do it.



Maybe the difference there is only in XP Home? Home only offers one option: Create an account (either "Administrator" or "Limited"). In 2k, you can create groups and swap/create/copy profiles and all of that.

While I don't have a copy of xp home around to test, I'm pretty sure you can use "control userpasswords2" to bring up the traditional user account interface. But seriously why would you need anything other than Administrator and Limited User?


Not sure if you can create a new account by copying the profile from an existing user in 2000. On XP, you have to create an account first, then open "System Properties > Advanced > User Profiles > Settings", there you can copy the profile of one user to another. You also have to log on to both the intended source and target account at least once to initialize them beforehand. I'm under the impression that 2000 is the same here. This method also copy program settings but there are potential for conflicts, so be careful.


Create 2 uesrs, user1 and user2. Log on to both once to initialize the accounts. Then customize the start menu and desktop of user1 as you like. After you are satisfied, log on as an administrator. Create a directory and move "Documents and Settings\user2\Desktop" and "Documents and Settings\user2\Start Menu" to there as backup. Next, copy "Documents and Settings\user1\Desktop" and "Documents and Settings\user1\Start Menu" to "Documents and Settings\user2". The start menu and desktop of user2 will then be the same as user1.
I think you may also want to move certain items from "All Users" to your own account too. In that case, moving should be fine since they have the permissions to allow everyone to access it. But you may still want to copy them to your account then delete the originals to keep the permissions uniform.

Windows can do that in the security tab of a file/folder too. The problem is M$ decided to hide that tab on XP Home. To see that tab, he have to download and install the "Security Configuration Manager".

I do understand what you are saying there, CloudWalker, but I just would not be able to make myself try those things until after I could clearly see the difference/s between what you are saying and the things I had been doing that got everything so messed up. And yes, your description of account management in 2k is certainly more accurate than mine. As the sole user in my 2k, I have only done just enough experimenting there to know those kinds of things can be done.

Another question for you or anyone:

Right now I am here on the Dell 3200 I am setting up for a co-worker's children, and I cannot get XP to let me put everyone's Temporary Internet Folders into a common set. I have D:/XPswap (a partition) for temporary stuff (to speed things up), and from IE "Tools" I have moved "Owner's" Temporary Internet Files into it ... but I cannot get anyone else's to go there even though I have temporarily changed their account types to "Administrator" and logged in that way. The operating systems in multi-boot setups can have in-common page files, but evidently two or more users cannot have common Temporary Internet Files?

...

Ah, it just struck me to move each user's set into a private folder in the swap partition (just like in "Docs and Sets" elsewhere) ...! !