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Abstract_Logic
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09 Jul 2010, 5:50 pm

I have seen people accuse others of "abusing" mathematics. I am a bit unclear as to what is meant by an abuse of mathematics. What comes to mind is something like "pseudomathematics." But how does one describe "pseudomathematics"?


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zer0netgain
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12 Jul 2010, 9:35 am

My best thought regards statistics.

Any honest statistics teacher would tell you that they mean very little because you can make statistics say most anything based on how you manipulate the numbers.

Mathematically, the statistics are accurate. Logically, it involves misrepresenting the numbers to tell a story that is different from the truth.

One way you could think of it is arguing "climate change" with a graph showing data going back only 20 years where one going back 200 or 2,000 years would indicate a very different pattern. The numbers/data is right, but how you use it is fallacious.



Asp-Z
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12 Jul 2010, 9:45 am

zer0netgain wrote:
My best thought regards statistics.

Any honest statistics teacher would tell you that they mean very little because you can make statistics say most anything based on how you manipulate the numbers.

Mathematically, the statistics are accurate. Logically, it involves misrepresenting the numbers to tell a story that is different from the truth.

One way you could think of it is arguing "climate change" with a graph showing data going back only 20 years where one going back 200 or 2,000 years would indicate a very different pattern. The numbers/data is right, but how you use it is fallacious.


Reminds me of the old joke about two people wanting to get a job at a statistics company.

When asked what their numbers would say, one said he'd make them as accurate as possible.

In answer to the same question, the next person simply answered, "what do you want the numbers to say?"

Guess who got the job?



TallyMan
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12 Jul 2010, 2:53 pm

Abuse in mathematics? rooting minus one sounds pretty painful. It is probably a sin too, or am I going off at a tangent?


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12 Jul 2010, 3:04 pm

It has been said that a man once drowned while crossing a stream of an average depth of six inches. :)



StuartN
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12 Jul 2010, 4:45 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
My best thought regards statistics.


I do not have a copy, but there was a UK civil service selection examination that had a question with part A) using the table above, show that unemployment is falling; part B) using the table above, show that unemployment is rising.

I used to teach statistics and started every course with a selection of examples of the abuse of statistics, and repeatedly returned to how to recognise the abuse of statistics. As one of the dominant forms of argument in modern society, it is good to have a working knowledge of statistical methods.



ruveyn
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12 Jul 2010, 5:54 pm

Misinterpreting or misstating a mathematical result.

Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem is one of the most abused mathematical results.

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polarity
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12 Jul 2010, 6:07 pm

Repeatedly trolling WoW trade channel with variations upon 6 - 6 x 6 = 0

Although I did respond by abusing WoW players with Reverse Polish Notation ;)


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ruveyn
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12 Jul 2010, 6:19 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Abuse in mathematics? rooting minus one sounds pretty painful. It is probably a sin too, or am I going off at a tangent?


What is your angle? Do you secant at a picnic cos its cool?

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12 Jul 2010, 7:52 pm

He probably did it in a log cabin while eating a bit of pi. He probably just does it to help him relax while the little toddler next door was reciting his "a b c d e"'s



MrDiamondMind
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13 Jul 2010, 1:56 am

Certainly mathematical fallacies would count as abuse.
Also, I would nominate words that have strict math meanings that people use in a non-math context. For example, when two things are similar on the surface and someone calls them "isomorphic."



zer0netgain
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13 Jul 2010, 7:24 am

StuartN wrote:
I used to teach statistics and started every course with a selection of examples of the abuse of statistics, and repeatedly returned to how to recognise the abuse of statistics. As one of the dominant forms of argument in modern society, it is good to have a working knowledge of statistical methods.


The same can be said about journalism and communication in general.

I learn to listen to HOW something is said and not just WHAT is said. Sometimes, what is NOT SAID tells you more about what is going on than what they do say.

I had someone pass along the statement that someone else was UNWILLING to help me do something. He could have just said UNABLE, but that little slip let me know the other person's inability to help was because he personally didn't want to. It told me where I stood in relation to that other person.



Brainfre3ze_93
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13 Jul 2010, 8:49 am

I've to agree with statistics abusing mathematics with misleading data and graphs.



polarity
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13 Jul 2010, 9:36 am

Prime example: Al Gore saying he's got millions of years of data showing CO2 levels correlated to temperature, and then assuming CO2 causes that temperature because of that statistical 'evidence', while completely ignoring that solar thermal output over that time may also be a factor, and we have no data on that before 1970, because we had no way to measure it seperately from global temperature, not having launched any satellites before then.

Result is, people who care about the environment (and can understand this statistical proof thing), don't care for Al Gore, because he doesn't give any actual proof, while trying to champion the movement due to his position. All he did was discredit the whole green movement, by pushing something that simply cannot be proven, while there are plenty of other environmental issues besides possible emissions based climate change, that can be proven to be caused by human activity.


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14 Jul 2010, 11:30 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Abuse in mathematics? rooting minus one sounds pretty painful. It is probably a sin too, or am I going off at a tangent?


No.. not a tangent, an orthogonal.
dang, that's painful humour, isn't it?

The murder rate in New York City is determined by ice cream sales in Havana Cuba
the correlation is SOOOOOO close to 1, that it's used as an example in most stat's textbooks. But weather patterns for both places are similar... and when it's hotter, people buy more ice cream AND their tempers flare more easily.
Thus.. the truth is that heat determines (or partially determines) murder rates and ice cream sales.