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DarthMetaKnight
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11 Aug 2010, 12:54 am

I've heard the question "Where are the flying cars?" asked a lot of times and I love hearing it every single time becasue I'm so mad that there are none.

I know why there are no flying cars too. Let's, for a second, consider the visionaries of yesteryear who thought up all the flying cars, robot servents, spaceships that can take you from Earth to the moons of Jupiter in a hour. These guys dreamed of an exciting future full of adventure and awesomeness and they optimistically thought it would come true. They were too optimistic. The people who seriously care about going into space, robot servents, effective personal jetpacks ect. are a minority. Most people want to be entertained. Most people want to see mindless violence. Most people want to communicate with their friends. Technology is made for the majority because you make money by selling to the majority. That's why we have TV with a bajillion channels, internet, the "i-Pad", cell phones that do everything except pick you nose for you and video games that let you almost feel like you're actually running over innocent civilians. That's why we don't have space hotels, ion propulsion, robot servents ect. We don't have flying cars but we have hybrid cars and cars with TVs in them! The mindless masses have no vision. They runined everything. The visionaries of yesteryear didn't take into account how the mindless masses have no vision.

As long as technology continues to be made for the mindless masses, it will continue to not live up to the predictions of the visionaries. Only if technology is made for the visionaries will the predictions of the visionaries come true. Only then will we have our robots that are almost like people and our space oddysseys and our cars that can finally fly!

Unfortunatley I don't any reason why technology is going to start being made for anyone but the mindless masses. Oh, well...

Note: please do not equate "mindless masses" with neurotypicals. That's not what I'm saying.


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conundrum
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11 Aug 2010, 1:04 am

So we're headed for a society that's more like IDIOCRACY than THE JETSONS (or even BACK TO THE FUTURE 2)?

*shudder*

Someone stop the madness! 8O


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Dilbert
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11 Aug 2010, 1:04 am

Disclaimer: I'm a pilot and we really don't want unqualified people up there.

First issue is licensing. Learning to fly is incredibly complex in comparison to driving. So to make a flying car feasable for the masses we'd need 100% computer control: punch in a destination and the car takes you there. That tech does not exist yet. Even if it did, tech can fail and so there should be a qualified human pilot aboard.

Let's assume that only qualified people could own a flying car, like you said. Second issue then becomes safety. You can't pull over in the air! What if the engine fails? Winged aircraft are inherently safe because they can be landed without an engine. Wings provide lift, and engine provides the forward thrust. A flying car would get all its lift from the engines. So what if the engine failed? The flying car would fall immediately. There are ballistic parachute systems available, yes. They could help if you got a problem at 1000 feet. What if the engine failed at 100 feet? A 100 foot drop is more than enough to kill you. No safety system would be able to deploy in mere 100 feet.

Etc...

The issue of a flying car isn't just the technology. It is also licensing, training, and safety.

:(

I want one. ;) Actually I'd settle for a Cirrus SR22. :P



ruveyn
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11 Aug 2010, 1:30 am

Dilbert wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm a pilot and we really don't want unqualified people up there.

First issue is licensing. Learning to fly is incredibly complex in comparison to driving. So to make a flying car feasable for the masses we'd need 100% computer control: punch in a destination and the car takes you there. That tech does not exist yet. Even if it did, tech can fail and so there should be a qualified human pilot aboard.

Let's assume that only qualified people could own a flying car, like you said. Second issue then becomes safety. You can't pull over in the air! What if the engine fails? Winged aircraft are inherently safe because they can be landed without an engine. Wings provide lift, and engine provides the forward thrust. A flying car would get all its lift from the engines. So what if the engine failed? The flying car would fall immediately. There are ballistic parachute systems available, yes. They could help if you got a problem at 1000 feet. What if the engine failed at 100 feet? A 100 foot drop is more than enough to kill you. No safety system would be able to deploy in mere 100 feet.

Etc...

The issue of a flying car isn't just the technology. It is also licensing, training, and safety.

:(

I want one. ;) Actually I'd settle for a Cirrus SR22. :P


I agree. I, too, am a pilot. If the skill level and examination requirements were as high for drivers as they were for pilots there would not be even a tenth as many cars driven legally. Flying is harder to do safely than driving and one can't pull over to the side if there is a problem while flying through the air.

Was immer ausgehen herunterkommen mussen.



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Last edited by ruveyn on 11 Aug 2010, 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

sgrannel
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11 Aug 2010, 2:06 am

It takes a lot of power just to keep something as heavy as a car in the air, even if it has wings. I recall that the Cessna 172 might have worse fuel economy than my truck. A "flying car" would have poor fuel economy, and then there's this issue of where to put the landing strips... There would have to be landing strips for each house or at least each neighborhood, each grocery store, etc. and this quickly grows to seem impractical on cursory examination. It's only when people are transported by the hundreds at a time over large distances that the economy of scale gives air travel a competitive cost and comparatively low fuel consumption on a per-passenger-mile basis.



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11 Aug 2010, 6:30 am

sgrannel wrote:
It takes a lot of power just to keep something as heavy as a car in the air, even if it has wings. I recall that the Cessna 172 might have worse fuel economy than my truck. A "flying car" would have poor fuel economy, and then there's this issue of where to put the landing strips... There would have to be landing strips for each house or at least each neighborhood, each grocery store, etc. and this quickly grows to seem impractical on cursory examination. It's only when people are transported by the hundreds at a time over large distances that the economy of scale gives air travel a competitive cost and comparatively low fuel consumption on a per-passenger-mile basis.


hmmm, we do not all have the Red Square as a front lawn, i agree,
sorry, "cessna 172" just jogged my memory:

http://www.dr.dk/Tema/rust/english/flight.htm

Vladimir Vladimirovich would probably also take a different approach to things from Mikhail Sergeyevich, even it were to be a winged Maybach trying to touch down 8O



zer0netgain
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11 Aug 2010, 7:35 am

Dilbert wrote:
First issue is licensing. Learning to fly is incredibly complex in comparison to driving. So to make a flying car feasable for the masses we'd need 100% computer control: punch in a destination and the car takes you there. That tech does not exist yet. Even if it did, tech can fail and so there should be a qualified human pilot aboard.


That's about it. Too many morons behind the wheel, and we already have a crisis with poor drivers and aged drivers who need transport but don't have options.

Until AI develops to the point that a computer can flawlessly handle a flying car, they'll never happen. Even if flying cars allowed humans to do anything but would override to prevent hazards, that's still a high level of computer control that doesn't exist.

However, look at ways we've exceeded the expectations of those visionaries in other areas. Dreamers can only plant seeds of what might be.



t0
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11 Aug 2010, 10:21 am

I don't understand why the auto-pilot technology isn't there. I'm not a pilot, but it's my understanding that:
1) Newer modern planes do have auto-pilot technology that will land a plane. Only human interaction is flipping the correct switch at the right time. They discussed this on a Mythbusters episode with a very experienced flight instructor.

2) If the technology exists for landing a plane, I would think taking off would be the same level of difficulty or easier.

3) I believe that it's common for flight areas to have designated altitudes for flying in a particular direction. There's no reason this couldn't be formalized across the world - basically dividing the skies into a series of invisible lanes. That's one of the great things about moving to a 3D environment - you can avoid intersections.

4) Limiting take-off and landing points to designated areas would prevent the complexity of infinite flight plans.

Obviously you still have mechanical failure issues - but I don't think the auto-pilot programming is the issue.



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11 Aug 2010, 10:29 am

t0 wrote:
I don't understand why the auto-pilot technology isn't there. I'm not a pilot, but it's my understanding that:
1) Newer modern planes do have auto-pilot technology that will land a plane. Only human interaction is flipping the correct switch at the right time. They discussed this on a Mythbusters episode with a very experienced flight instructor.

2) If the technology exists for landing a plane, I would think taking off would be the same level of difficulty or easier.

3) I believe that it's common for flight areas to have designated altitudes for flying in a particular direction. There's no reason this couldn't be formalized across the world - basically dividing the skies into a series of invisible lanes. That's one of the great things about moving to a 3D environment - you can avoid intersections.

4) Limiting take-off and landing points to designated areas would prevent the complexity of infinite flight plans.

Obviously you still have mechanical failure issues - but I don't think the auto-pilot programming is the issue.


I think it's an issue of handling unknowns. Plane disasters are averted by skilled pilots, not computers. An AI/computer can "fly" a plane under ideal conditions, but so much can happen with little warning that a software construct would need to be very adaptable in a matter of microseconds to correctly pick a proper response.



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11 Aug 2010, 11:23 am

zer0netgain wrote:
I think it's an issue of handling unknowns. Plane disasters are averted by skilled pilots, not computers. An AI/computer can "fly" a plane under ideal conditions, but so much can happen with little warning that a software construct would need to be very adaptable in a matter of microseconds to correctly pick a proper response.


Uhhh, What? Machines have a much faster response than humans and a machines judgment is unladen by perceptual bias.

You might recall from your driving lessons about a 3 or 5 second rule pertaining to appropriate spacing between automobiles? Thats because human response times... SUCK.

"Ideal" conditions for autopilot are a lot more broad that you are letting on, including inclement weather such as high winds, snow storms and such. These events are big problems for human pilots.


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DenvrDave
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11 Aug 2010, 12:21 pm

sgrannel wrote:
It takes a lot of power just to keep something as heavy as a car in the air, even if it has wings. I recall that the Cessna 172 might have worse fuel economy than my truck. A "flying car" would have poor fuel economy, and then there's this issue of where to put the landing strips... There would have to be landing strips for each house or at least each neighborhood, each grocery store, etc. and this quickly grows to seem impractical on cursory examination. It's only when people are transported by the hundreds at a time over large distances that the economy of scale gives air travel a competitive cost and comparatively low fuel consumption on a per-passenger-mile basis.


I agree with this^. I think the reason there are no flying cars is because there has not yet been invented a cheap, reliable, and safe energy source that could fit into a structure the size of a car. It would take a lot of energy to power a flying car, along the lines of a small nuclear power plant. Until or unless such an energy supply and storage system (i.e., super-powerful battery) is invented, flying cars will be a thing of the future.

Asimov already gave us the vision we need to overcome safety concerns regarding human-error and piloting: In his vision of the future, flying cars are piloted by robots who are able to process billions of bits of information and make risk-averse decisions in nanoseconds...so human error would be taken out of the equation.

To the OP's point, there are a lot of visionaries who have provided us with good ideas for the future. What we need now are inventors and innovators who can supply us with the technology to get there. Cool topic! :)



danieltaiwan
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11 Aug 2010, 7:40 pm

Extremely fast train travel will be the future.
The use of a vacuum will eliminate drag and maglev technology will theoretically allow unlimited speed. Trains will soon within perhaps be able to go 10,000 km per hour.
The only problem is that the tunneling costs would be super expensive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain


The reason why Flying Cars are not practical are because of the prohibitive cost and low fuel efficiency.



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11 Aug 2010, 8:31 pm

With the lack of low cost energy and the environment problems that our current consumption bring, we won't see flying cars anytime soon. But if cold fusion can work, then maybe...


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zer0netgain
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12 Aug 2010, 7:37 am

Fuzzy wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
I think it's an issue of handling unknowns. Plane disasters are averted by skilled pilots, not computers. An AI/computer can "fly" a plane under ideal conditions, but so much can happen with little warning that a software construct would need to be very adaptable in a matter of microseconds to correctly pick a proper response.


Uhhh, What? Machines have a much faster response than humans and a machines judgment is unladen by perceptual bias.


The deficiency is one of programming, not hardware.

Computers "think" faster than humans. They certainly can react faster, but they can only work within the parameters of their programming. Stock market crashes can happen because computers react to situations in microseconds, but they had to impose a manual "stop" button so humans could keep the market from careening down because of computer-initiated trading.

An experienced pilot can anticipate and utilize experience to do things a textbook might never suggest. An AI flying anything would need to have the experience of hundreds of seasoned pilots and sensors capable of detecting a myriad of conditions a human might recognize that standard sight clues might miss. Absent such sophisticated programming and processing speed to do all that faster than a human (larger volumes of data = faster processing speeds), and you get a machine that might be more prone to crashing than a human pilot would be.



ruveyn
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12 Aug 2010, 9:54 am

Tollorin wrote:
With the lack of low cost energy and the environment problems that our current consumption bring, we won't see flying cars anytime soon. But if cold fusion can work, then maybe...


If you hold your breath until cold fusion is practical then you will turn blue and die. We don't even have controlled hot fusion.

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12 Aug 2010, 9:55 am

DenvrDave wrote:
I think the reason there are no flying cars is because there has not yet been invented a cheap, reliable, and safe energy source that could fit into a structure the size of a car.


Yes, and cars like those used by "The Jetsons" will not need runways. Congestion will likely be a big issue, however, with hovering cars "stacked" while waiting to come down and merge into road traffic at interchanges ... and then some nut will pee on the car below him and the lasers will come out ...

We need to go back to wagons and mules.


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