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katkore
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30 Sep 2013, 5:02 pm

I've been interested in the subject of fight or flight response for some time now, what recently struck my attention is that the meltdowns and shutdowns in autism score as Fight or Flight response, therefore, after asking Cornflake where I could start a topic about it, I finally would like to tell you what I know and ask about further information on the subject, be it further links or reading suggestions. I would also be interested in hearing theories you came up with following your knowledge on the subject.

My first approach with the Fight or Flight Response was when reading a book by a very debatable researcher whose name is Germain, let's forget about him it's really not worth it and it's mere introduction.
What I found out at that point was a rudimentary explanation of the origins of the Fight or Flight Response in the human being, to sum up briefly:

The fight or flight response is due to the elementary impulses of the human genetic inheritance, the first forms of fight or flight responses are to be found in prehistorical graffitos as a response to danger. When the human brain hadn't yet reached it's current stage in evolution the fight or flight response was already present in our ancestors.
Our ancestors were faced with physical dangers like being attacked by a predator or attacking a big prey themselves (like mammoths). At this point the body got ready either for flight or for battle: blood would be sent by the brain to the muscles in legs or arms according to the need to flee (legs) or fight (arms).

Nowadays we're no more as much subject to physical danger and most of what our brain perceives as danger is of psychological nature, but the response hasn't changed.

At this point I thought it was worth some more research and I found out that the fight or flight response is activated by the sympathetic nervous system.

From now on I will bring up some quotes from Wikipedia (it's so clear and well done that it seems a waste not to quote it an struggle with words myself in a foreign language, sorry):

Quote:
The fight-or-flight response (also called the fight-or-flight-or-freeze response, hyperarousal, or the acute stress response) is a physiological reaction that occurs in response to a perceived harmful event, attack, or threat to survival. It was first described by Walter Bradford Cannon. His theory states that animals react to threats with a general discharge of the sympathetic nervous system, priming the animal for fighting or fleeing. More specifically, the adrenal medulla produces a hormonal cascade that results in the secretion of catecholamines, especially.


Quote:
The reaction begins in the amygdala, which triggers a neural response in the hypothalamus. The initial reaction is followed by activation of the pituitary gland and secretion of the hormone ACTH. The adrenal gland is activated almost simultaneously and releases the neurotransmitter epinephrine. The release of chemical messengers results in the production of the hormone cortisol, which increases blood pressure, blood sugar, and suppresses the immune system. The initial response and subsequent reactions are triggered in an effort to create a boost of energy. This boost of energy is activated by epinephrine binding to liver cells and the subsequent production of glucose. Additionally, the circulation of cortisol functions to turn fatty acids into available energy, which prepares muscles throughout the body for response. Catecholamine hormones, such as adrenaline (epinephrine) or noradrenaline (norepinephrine), facilitate immediate physical reactions associated with a preparation for violent muscular action. These include the following:
- Acceleration of heart and lung action
- Paling or flushing, or alternating between both
- Inhibition of stomach and upper-intestinal action to the point where digestion slows down or stops
- General effect on the sphincters of the body
- Constriction of blood vessels in many parts of the body
- Liberation of metabolic energy sources (particularly fat and glycogen) for muscular action
- Dilation of blood vessels for muscles
- Inhibition of the lacrimal gland (responsible for tear production) and salivation
- Dilation of pupil (mydriasis)
- Relaxation of bladder
- Inhibition of erection
- Auditory exclusion (loss of hearing)
- Tunnel vision (loss of peripheral vision)
- Disinhibition of spinal reflexes
- Shaking


Quote:
The physiological changes that occur during the fight or flight response are activated in order to give the body increased strength and speed in anticipation of fighting or running. Some of the specific physiological changes and their functions include:
- Increased blood flow to the muscles activated by diverting blood flow from other parts of the body.
- Increased blood pressure, heart rate, blood sugars, and fats in order to supply the body with extra energy.
- The blood clotting function of the body speeds up in order to prevent excessive blood loss in the event of an injury sustained during the response.
- Increased muscle tension in order to provide the body with extra speed and strength.
- The pupils dilate to help see with increased clarity.
- Increased perspiration to prevent over-heating due to the increased metabolic rate.


Given the above getting back to the Fight or Flight Response in the Autism Spectrum seems to clearly point to a few things:

1) given the difficult regulation of the action of the adrenal glands in many autistic subjects, which is to be seen in the craving for sugar and salt, the incidence of fight or flight accidents in the life of these autistic persons seems likely increased

2) given the high incidence of sensory issues in people on the spectrum the number of stressors potentially activating the fight or flight response is increased

3) given the nature of flight response it's likely that some individuals appear more subject to passive/flight responses or shutdowns

4) given the nature of fight response it's likely that some individuals appear more subject to active/fight responses or meltdowns.


This is where I have gotten so far, what I have found out and the conclusions I have come to.
Hoping that it doesn't sound too stupid or too superficial, I would now ask you for feedback, personal knowledge or anything you feel like adding, correcting, better explaining or expanding.


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Apple_in_my_Eye
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30 Sep 2013, 7:27 pm

I wonder, is "playing dead" also an aspect of ForF? It's not typically mentioned, but it seems to fit.

Also, I think the degree of social stress can't be underestimated, in that with social primates if you get shunned from the group you usually die. So, social stress in that case really was a life-or-death thing, and was a part of our evolution.



katkore
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30 Sep 2013, 7:53 pm

"playing dead" is a rational response and everything I mentioned is instead subconscious reaction, anyway some researchers point to a "freeze" response as a specific form of reaction to fear.

This I forgot to mention: fight is activated by anger feelings whereas flight and freeze are activated by fear.
the freeze response may look as playing dead but it's also a subconscious reaction.

As to the second part of your post, that would score as the utmost anthropological fear, also calling upon the concept of preservation of the species where species is to be taken into account as granting a descendance to family genes. On that perspective a rejection by sociaty may well be one of the utmost causes of a fight or flight response.


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02 Oct 2013, 10:50 pm

I have been wandering down these thought processes as well.

I am very curious about your #1 in particular. Did you find specific studies indicating salt and sugar cravings in autistic populations?

I am diagnosed as Aspergers.

About a year ago, while I was employed in a stressful workplace, I kept developing hyponatremia that remained unsolved and eventually resolved itself. I had many tests done, including an MRI to check for a pituitary tumor. I had to see a cardiologist because it was affecting my heart. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to see an endocrinologist on a reasonable timetable, and my cortisol levels were drawn after the hyponatremia spontaneously resolved (after a month of bed rest). I wish that I was able to have my cortisol levels tested while I was still having major problems.

Recently, I have been interested in the amygdala's role in the fight, flight, or freeze response and it's possible relationship to what happened to me physically.

If it is relevant, I am the type who fits your #3 criteria (flight responses and I shut down). I have a son who fits your #4 criteria (fights, is angry, and has loud embarrassing meltdowns).



katkore
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03 Oct 2013, 1:29 am

Here: Link

if you google you'll find much more: adrenal stress autism


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lost561
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06 Oct 2013, 7:04 pm

Are there any medications to stop fight or flight response?



ruveyn
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06 Oct 2013, 8:39 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
I wonder, is "playing dead" also an aspect of ForF? It's not typically mentioned, but it seems to fit.

Also, I think the degree of social stress can't be underestimated, in that with social primates if you get shunned from the group you usually die. So, social stress in that case really was a life-or-death thing, and was a part of our evolution.


Playing dead is a form of hiding which is a form of flight.

Also burying the head in the sand, which is the dumb way of fleeing.

ruveyn



katkore
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07 Oct 2013, 2:52 am

ruveyn wrote:
Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
I wonder, is "playing dead" also an aspect of ForF? It's not typically mentioned, but it seems to fit.

Also, I think the degree of social stress can't be underestimated, in that with social primates if you get shunned from the group you usually die. So, social stress in that case really was a life-or-death thing, and was a part of our evolution.


Playing dead is a form of hiding which is a form of flight.

Also burying the head in the sand, which is the dumb way of fleeing.

ruveyn


Neither is caused by the sympathetic nervous system, this topic is about consequences of the activation of the sympathetic nervous system, therefore like I said they are rational ways to run away and do not belong to the technical and specific meaning of the expression "fight or flight response".


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07 Oct 2013, 7:06 am

lost561 wrote:
Are there any medications to stop fight or flight response?

Sedatives. They reduce the effect of the stimuli on you. (lit. It makes you not fully aware of what is happening around you)



katkore
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07 Oct 2013, 7:28 am

Thanks neobluex! I had entirely missed the question, apologies.

I would add a therapy against anxiety, some plant remedies and a specific diet. :)


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lost561
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07 Oct 2013, 8:02 am

neobluex wrote:
lost561 wrote:
Are there any medications to stop fight or flight response?

Sedatives. They reduce the effect of the stimuli on you. (lit. It makes you not fully aware of what is happening around you)


Do you know of any in particular? Antipsychotics, benzos, mood stabilizers?



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09 Oct 2013, 2:55 pm

I'm sorry, you have to talk to a clinician for that information (question of ethics). You can also get an herbal supplement; they are safer than many drugs.
Psychotherapy is even more useful to treat anxiety, but it can't stop a physiological response like that, but make you able to "modulate" your behavioral response.