Page 1 of 2 [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

GinBlossoms
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 173

16 Feb 2014, 5:06 am

I tried and can't get a better thread title. Since robots and computers are going to take all of our human workforce (stay with me here), which isn't really desirable to some people, can we theoretically escape and start a new as humans on the moon, while abandoning the machines and robots here on Earth? Think about this. I am asking something kind of serious.



Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,132
Location: Scandinavia

16 Feb 2014, 8:13 am

The Moon (or Mars) doesn't have enough gravity to prevent loss of bone mass and muscle atrophy. Furthermore, the Moon has no atmosphere apart from very small amounts of argon and helium, so you won't have anything to convert into oxygen--or anything to protect you from radiation.



Aspendos
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 394
Location: Switzerland

16 Feb 2014, 8:17 am

You'd need machines and computers, and likely robots, to colonize moon. So ...



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

16 Feb 2014, 8:35 am

Since water has been discovered on the Moon, there is a source of oxygen, which can also be extracted from some Lunar minerals, as well.

But that requires machinery.

Tunneling under the surface of the Moon to escape radiation also requires machinery.

Getting to the Moon requires both machinery and computers, and maintaining livable environment on the Moon would require both, as well.



LupaLuna
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,551
Location: tri-cities WA

24 Feb 2014, 8:54 am

To address the low gravity issue. You could use centrifuges for increased gravity. People could sleep in them at night and be subjected to 1.5G to compensate for the low gravity.



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

24 Feb 2014, 8:58 am

The moon is quite boring; it has no atmosphere. :wink:


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


Jono
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,657
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

24 Feb 2014, 10:37 am

Kurgan wrote:
The Moon (or Mars) doesn't have enough gravity to prevent loss of bone mass and muscle atrophy. Furthermore, the Moon has no atmosphere apart from very small amounts of argon and helium, so you won't have anything to convert into oxygen--or anything to protect you from radiation.


We don't quite know that. We know that there will be loss of bone and muscle atrophy in a zero gravity environment but there has not any research into how low gravity between Earth's and micro-gravity will affect muscle or how much bone or muscle will be lost with varying amounts of gravity. The moon does is not a micro-gravity environment, it's gravity is a 6th of the amount on Earth, therefore you would still be using at least some muscle when moving about in the moon's gravity. There may still be some loss in muscle mass but it won't be as much as is seen in astronauts living on a space station. Besides, it can be mitigated by exercise.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

24 Feb 2014, 11:13 am

TallyMan wrote:
The moon is quite boring; it has no atmosphere. :wink:


People will be living -in- the moon, in underground or partially underground habitats.



b9
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,003
Location: australia

24 Feb 2014, 12:07 pm

it is not possible to live on the moon yet. i was searching for properties for sale on the moon on a number of real estate sites, but not only did i not find any listings, "moon" was not even included in the drop down box of search locations.

i guess it is well that i did not find any properties for sale, because once i thought about it, i realized that if i bought say a 100 acre block, i would not be able to put a fence around it.



Aspendos
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2012
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 394
Location: Switzerland

24 Feb 2014, 12:22 pm

b9 wrote:
it is not possible to live on the moon yet. i was searching for properties for sale on the moon on a number of real estate sites, but not only did i not find any listings, "moon" was not even included in the drop down box of search locations.

i guess it is well that i did not find any properties for sale, because once i thought about it, i realized that if i bought say a 100 acre block, i would not be able to put a fence around it.


You didn't do your research properly. Check out www.moonestates.com or www.lunarregistry.com (just the first ones that come up on Google).



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 70
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

24 Feb 2014, 12:23 pm

Trying to escape automation by colonizing the moon would be like trying to escape the cold Manhatten winters by moving to Antarctica. It would take even more mechanization, and more computerization for humans to live on the moon than to survive here on earth because of the need for capital intensive technology for human life support on the moon.



cubedemon6073
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,958

24 Feb 2014, 12:41 pm

Jono wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
The Moon (or Mars) doesn't have enough gravity to prevent loss of bone mass and muscle atrophy. Furthermore, the Moon has no atmosphere apart from very small amounts of argon and helium, so you won't have anything to convert into oxygen--or anything to protect you from radiation.


We don't quite know that. We know that there will be loss of bone and muscle atrophy in a zero gravity environment but there has not any research into how low gravity between Earth's and micro-gravity will affect muscle or how much bone or muscle will be lost with varying amounts of gravity. The moon does is not a micro-gravity environment, it's gravity is a 6th of the amount on Earth, therefore you would still be using at least some muscle when moving about in the moon's gravity. There may still be some loss in muscle mass but it won't be as much as is seen in astronauts living on a space station. Besides, it can be mitigated by exercise.


What about Artificial Gravity as well?



cubedemon6073
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,958

24 Feb 2014, 12:41 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Trying to escape automation by colonizing the moon would be like trying to escape the cold Manhatten winters by moving to Antarctica. It would take even more mechanization, and more computerization for humans to live on the moon than to survive here on earth because of the need for capital intensive technology for human life support on the moon.


This is what I'm thinking as well.



Jono
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,657
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

24 Feb 2014, 2:22 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Jono wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
The Moon (or Mars) doesn't have enough gravity to prevent loss of bone mass and muscle atrophy. Furthermore, the Moon has no atmosphere apart from very small amounts of argon and helium, so you won't have anything to convert into oxygen--or anything to protect you from radiation.


We don't quite know that. We know that there will be loss of bone and muscle atrophy in a zero gravity environment but there has not any research into how low gravity between Earth's and micro-gravity will affect muscle or how much bone or muscle will be lost with varying amounts of gravity. The moon does is not a micro-gravity environment, it's gravity is a 6th of the amount on Earth, therefore you would still be using at least some muscle when moving about in the moon's gravity. There may still be some loss in muscle mass but it won't be as much as is seen in astronauts living on a space station. Besides, it can be mitigated by exercise.


What about Artificial Gravity as well?


Artificial gravity is easier on a space station in orbit around the Earth like the ISS, all you have to do is rotate it. However, on the surface of a body like the moon, you have to worry about friction, so you can't just rotate bases like in space or use conveyer belts without using up extra energy resources.



khaoz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Apr 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,940

24 Feb 2014, 10:33 pm

Maybe all humans should be issued a 3D printer and a monthly stipend for materials to print toilet paper, spam canned meat, and other essentials



LupaLuna
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,551
Location: tri-cities WA

24 Feb 2014, 11:26 pm

Jono wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Jono wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
The Moon (or Mars) doesn't have enough gravity to prevent loss of bone mass and muscle atrophy. Furthermore, the Moon has no atmosphere apart from very small amounts of argon and helium, so you won't have anything to convert into oxygen--or anything to protect you from radiation.


We don't quite know that. We know that there will be loss of bone and muscle atrophy in a zero gravity environment but there has not any research into how low gravity between Earth's and micro-gravity will affect muscle or how much bone or muscle will be lost with varying amounts of gravity. The moon does is not a micro-gravity environment, it's gravity is a 6th of the amount on Earth, therefore you would still be using at least some muscle when moving about in the moon's gravity. There may still be some loss in muscle mass but it won't be as much as is seen in astronauts living on a space station. Besides, it can be mitigated by exercise.


What about Artificial Gravity as well?


Artificial gravity is easier on a space station in orbit around the Earth like the ISS, all you have to do is rotate it. However, on the surface of a body like the moon, you have to worry about friction, so you can't just rotate bases like in space or use conveyer belts without using up extra energy resources.


if you read my post earlier. I was talking about using centrifuges

LupaLuna wrote:
To address the low gravity issue. You could use centrifuges for increased gravity. People could sleep in them at night and be subjected to 1.5G to compensate for the low gravity.