Intel processors are dead, so I have an AMD question

Post Reply New Topic

Why do I say Intel processors are dead? Turns out that for a good many years, the Intel processors have something going on that's a major security issue, and now that it's been found, it has to be fixed by a patch in the OS.

Problem?

This reduces your computer's performance by 30%...or more.

My first build was using an Intel i5. I love that machine. I'd used an older computer's case to do the build because that original machine had been a gift and I wanted it to sort of "live on".

Now, I'm going to have to replace the processor and mother board. The i5 had four cores and ran at 3.3ghz. I've spotted an AMD processor with the same specs, and a motherboard for it that even takes the same kind of memory the i5's mother board is currently using.

Thing is, I don't know enough about the motherboard's socket type. It's listed as an FM2+.

The only AMD socket I'm familiar with is the AM3+.

Is the FM2+ older than AM3+, or is the FM2 newer?

I think you'd be wasting your money to change your processor, and you've listened to too much hyperbole. Your processor is likely going to perform just fine for most computing tasks and at performance equal to that of older AMD CPUs. 30% is worst case scenario based on a Linux security patch for certain, specific tasks, and mostly affects those running virtual machines or servers.

I would wait and decide for yourself whether you feel a need to upgrade once the security flaw is patched.

Also, realistically Intel processors aren't dead by any means. If anything it may drive the sale of more Intel processors to make up for the lost performance. There's a lot of expense in changing platform en masse compared to just buying more of the same thing.

I wouldn’t recommend switching to AMD, comparing specs like processors, speed and threads doesn’t work like it used to - a 3ghz quad core AMD cpu will be slower than the same spec in an intel processor.
Also Intel have the monopoly on ‘high end’ cpus - AMD just can’t match the power of Intel, so if you were to swap to something of a similar power to your i5 the AMD cpu would pretty much be top end an as such leaves you no room to upgrade should you want to.

FM2+ (should my memory serve correctly) is newer than AM3 but I think it’s more of a ‘mobile’ architecture where they normally come with a crappy built-in GPU that’s basically a waste of time as any dedicated GPU you might buy will instantly make the CPU’s GPU pointless.

I haven’t kept up to date with CPUs as I normally do because I have no need to upgrade at the moment, but I believe the latest AMD cpus are starting to match Intel chips, but Intel have been ahead of the game for so long I would not be surprised if they are holding back some more powerful processors to release should AMD catch up significantly.

Hope that helps

Stop panicking and assuming things.

Intel, AMD and ARM are all affected by these vulnerabilities, but there will be patches and solutions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99VgZlk ... 3616521812

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/0 ... sign_flaw/

Seems AMD is NOT affected. Who told you they are? This was only a problem in Intel processors.

That's not true. Ryzen CPUs are pretty much the same as Intel's in terms of speed.

Socket AM4 is way to go. FM sockets are for low end computers.

Who? The security researchers that have been researching this for 6 months under an information embargo and released it yesterday. Not some random youtuber.

This is an architectural problem that came from the CPU monoculture that is called "intel compatibility", Meltdown is Intel specific and can read from all processes, Spectre is compatible specific (AMD and ARM) but limited to the current security context.

First: random people on youtube pretending to be security experts is not a good source.
https://threatpost.com/vendors-share-patch-updates-on-spectre-and-meltdown-mitigation-efforts/129307/.

The conclusion about ARM in the above article is flawed, becomes clear if you read what the manufacturer says, it is vulnerable in some cases (check the vuln matrix):
https://developer.arm.com/support/security-update

Secondly: if you want information of how it works, get it directly from the experts:


This is not heartbleed that allowed an attacker with no access to extract information from outside the system, for this you need code execution access to the system to exploit these new vulnerabilities. Basically, this is just a way to read memory from the computer without administrator rights, if you're already infected - well... sooner or later they get admin and can do that anyway.

It is not the end of modern CPU architecture, it will be fixed. Intel and AMD downplays the impact, but in general when it comes to security, no one care what the vendors say. They have their own self interests like making money - and not losing money by dumping their stock after learning about these problems, like Intels CEO has done.

There has already been patches released that implement new protection functionality invented specifically for these vulnerabilities. It is a problem if you're running internet connected services on your system - or if you are a cloud services provider. But if you are a gamer, restart steam, game on and run Windows update next week.

That is basically the impact.

There are claims that these vulnerabilities can be used via JavaScript. So, it is a big deal. Pretty much any random website that you visit (directly or indirectly) may use this attack against you.

It's scope will be limited since it does not elevate privileges, it could probably be used with Javascript, a better vector would be JS with a stage downloader or VBScript payload that could make use of referenced API calls, but that does not set it apart from any other 0day in the wild. The actual use from an attackers perspective is limited, a peephole into memory from userland isn't very useful when doing persistence unless you're a state actor targeting some druglord, journalist or religious nutcase with explosives in the middle east.

Like i said, Intel is already preparing fixes, the attack window will slam shut sooner or later:
https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/intel-issues-updates-protect-systems-security-exploits/

Or just an average Joe who pays with his credit card online, huh?

Lock your card down. I can, so can most people. If you cannot, change bank.

Spectre will never be truly fixed, as I understand it's a design flaw of the cache that allows a program access to another programs recently vacated spot in the cache and thus the data stored there before it's removed. As such it's a physical bug, and you can't 'patch' a physical bug, any software based patch will most likely just bypass said flaw, thus crimping a portion of the processor's power. That's not really a patch, that's a neutering. And there will be no 'recall' because it's just not feasible, virtually every processor going back to '95 when they designed the architecture has the flaw.

Also, processors aren't designed overnight, there won't be a processor out without the flaw for at absolute bare minimum 2 years. Intel and AMD aren't going to change their current release schedule, nor their manufacturing deadlines, not to mention it may take some time to for the engineers to design an architecture that doesn't include the flaw. So it's going to be a long time before consumers see a processor that's not gimped by a 'patch'. Granted the average speed decrease of patched processors will probably be ~5%, obviously lower or higher depending on the task it's doing, but worldwide, that's still a 5% decrease in our computational power, which is significant.

It's just a really bad day for processors, which makes it kind of a gloomy day for the entire tech industry.

Edit: oh yeah, the OP-- when we're talking the same era of architecture, Intel and AMD will be roughly equivalent. Yes, since the Core 2 up until last year Intel held the edge for processing power, but it's always 'slight'. How slight? Most generations they're within ~5-10% of their competitor, a 5% decrease in an Intel's power won't take it back a decade, not even a single generation, and in all honesty won't be noticed by 95% of users. It only comes into play when you're doing things that need a lot of bits changed, such as encoding, rendering, compiling, etc. Most people use their phones/tablets/computers browsing the internet, playing games, or watching video/listening to music, all those tasks barely touch your processor, so the decrease in performance won't be noticed by average users. Also, if you're a gamer, video cards are where all the magic happens, things like ram and cpu have minimal impact compared to the video card. Also, Spectre involves virtually every processor on the market including AMD, Meltdown is Intel specific.

Also for sockets: Socket releases

And change all your passwords on hourly basis, as they can leak any moment.

I read somewhere that AMD processors have their own version of the same issue.

Also, for home users, it is mostly a non-issue, anyway. If someone can get sufficient access to your computer to run a program to exploit the problem, there are far easier ways to do more. I don't see much reason, at this time, for normal home users to even patch anything, much less worry about it on their computers.

The real issue is when run computer is hosting several virtual machines. Normally, each virtual machine is self contained and will have zero access to any other virtual machine. This vulnerability would give them access to data currently being processed on other virtual machines. So if an attacker can get access to one virtual machine, then they can use that to get information about the other virtual machines.

That's not true.