Temperance Brennan and Zack Addy (Bones) As Aspies

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I honestly thought the same thing, that the writers had given Temperance Brennan AS characteristics. This didn't dawn on me until I started noticing that the other characters in the show are constantly explaining human emotions/reactions to her as if she's Spock from Star Trek. I identify with her a great deal, which is why I like the show, but whether or not the AS traits (no sign of stimming, but everything else is there) are intentional or not, I have no idea.

Rainsong,

You raise some good points. Get to the "nature versus nurture thing," too. Our favorite ADHD expert says there are really two kinds of ADHD: one is a genetic trait. The other is more of a "secondary" ADHD caused by our media culture frying people's brains.

I also think the issue has to do with "first season" versus "third season." A lot of my evidence comes from the first season, where she was a lot more distant.

Two things happen with "eccentric" TV characters. Either the writers don't want to "spoil" the character by allowing any progress, or they give the character more progress than is realistic. I think the latter is the case here.

In between are characters whose "quirks" change, because the writers apparently think the gimmick has gotten old--like we hardly saw any Vicodin during this season of _House_ or heard anything about it. _Monk_ doesn't incessantly ask for wipes anymore.

So, I think we have four issues here: 1. Source material; 2. Writers' intents; 3. Actor portrayal; 4. narrative development style in a TV series.

In any case, a good writer is a good psychologist. Writers have a keen eye to people's quirks and behavior. So the writers, in depicting the characteristics they've commonly observed in "geeks," bring out many traits commonly found among Aspies, but--since they're not overtly trying to show it, they miss some marks.

Breanne, I totally know what you mean. My mother was having trouble understanding my AS when we first found out, but then she started comparing me to Bones and Zack. I didn't watch the show at the time, so I was eager to see how Bones was like me. My mother, my mentor at school and a few of my friends now call me Bones. In fact whenever a teacher asked me about my AS, I asked if they watched Bones, becasue Bones can totally make someone understand what it's like to have AS. I know the writers have never said either one has AS, but their literal interpration, their obsessive interests and frequent social mistakes make it easy to see the similarities.

I didn't think of it until last night, but my take is likely not.

The main character (Temperance) seems clueless about how people interact in real life and has her "quirks" but if she's supposed to have AS, it is not reflected in enough ways for me to believe she is supposed to have AS. If the creators intended otherwise, they did not do very good research into AS. "Eggheads" do get caught up in their research, and even being NT, they would have problems with other NTs because of limited social interaction and associations mostly with people of similar IQ and interests.

This isn't hard to grasp. Talk to "educated" people on university campuses. For people so "smart" they are idiots about most things in real life....not because of AS, but because they are in an ivory tower that bears little resemblance to what is going on in the real world. Remember, socialism is a great idea...on paper. In real life, not one nation has made it work the way it was intended to. The theory never accounted for basic human drives like greed.

As a comparison, think of kids who are home schooled. I repeatedly hear the (IMHO) unjust criticism that home schooled kids are weird because they go into society utterly clueless as to how to interact with "normal" kids who went to public school. The assertion is that it is overall better for a parent to subject a kid to an environment with drugs, sexual promiscuity, violence, etc. rather than put them into a morally affirming environment for learning because they come out better adapted to interacting with people messed up by the public school system.

The psychology guy on the show describes Temperance as one who "compartmentalizes" her emotions from her intellect. If she's supposed to have AS, you'd think he'd say she has AS. Her behavior (and that of her associates) is somewhat similar....very smart people to often associate with very smart people...not average people off the street.

Also, Temperance is comfortable interacting with people...she just does it badly...that doesn't look like AS to me. If she's supposed to have AS, she'd avoid situations where she has to meet people because she knows she's going to likely have awkward interactions.

There's also the possibility (but I'm guessing here) that Temperance has some psychological disorder (borderline psychopath) that makes her almost indifferent to other person's feelings by and large unless she chooses to care about them. Given her father and brother and the plots surrounding them...it might be a family tendency.

NTs have people who have "street smarts" and others with "book smarts." AS doesn't = person with "book smarts." It's more than just that.

Now, Zach....he could be an AS person. He's fairly isolated, wrapped up in his interests, only sociable with those who have accepted him. Unemotional except in extreme cases. I don't know if I'd like seeing him "outed" as having AS because while someone with AS could be deceived into doing something via manipulation, so could anyone else, and with how the story has gone for him at this point, I'd not want him as a fictional poster child for AS lest people make the wrong conclusions.

Sorry, what you're describing is avoidant personality disorder. Aspies can be very comfortable interacting with people; in fact, the anxiety level doesn't come into the diagnosis at all. You can be socially clumsy and completely oblivious, or just not caring, of how others see you. In fact, this is what tends to happen when an Aspie has "poor insight" into how bad his social skills are... or else when his self-esteem is good enough to have decided consciously that he would rather be confident and obviously odd than anxiously watch every action in an attempt to feel more normal. Not caring about other peoples' emotions probably comes from poor theory of mind rather than some kind of sociopathy--Temperance probably thinks in facts, and doesn't understand that the facts may distress other people even when they do not distress her. She doesn't want to hurt other people, as evidenced by the fact that when made aware of the potential for causing distress, she will try, usually clumsily, to be more diplomatic.

I always thought that making Zack the apprentice was rather bad writing. He's obviously extremely intelligent and relies almost completely on logic to understand the world; the argument that he was convinced by logic to become the apprentice really doesn't sit well with me. I could see it happening if he were convinced through emotion, much the same way the spouse of a sociopathic abuser is convinced to stay with him; but "It made sense at the time" is a really weak excuse. The character was written as someone who is never willing to assume anything he can't prove scientifically; well, if they'd written him right he'd have been asking for evidence--controlled studies, even--not just saying, "Okay, that makes sense". You'd have to have some pretty bad logic to consider killing and eating people to be beneficial; and Zack simply does not have bad logic. People who rely completely on logic don't get overwhelmed by "stronger personalities" that way, especially not by sociopaths, whose main modus operandi is to manipulate people through the use of emotion. They may be convinced in other ways, or forced; but... it just doesn't sit well with me that it could ever be made to seem "logical".

I could see some Aspies being convinced that way; but it's the logical sort, the ones that question everything, that are more often than not even less vulnerable to sociopaths than NTs are. They don't read the emotional and social pressure strategies that the sociopath is using to try to manipulate them, and as a result have only his words to evaluate--words that are often full of lies and half-truths. I'm not saying logical thinking is superior, even though it's my own style, because it's still possible to be overwhelmed by emotion or intimidated or deceived into thinking someone is nice when they aren't; but when confronted with facts, a logical thinker will automatically gravitate to the facts first, because they're most reassuring and dependable to him.

Change Zack's character to someone who will agree to what anybody else says, in order to be accommodating; who won't put forth his own theories unless literally commanded to do so; who tries to like what other people like, or tends to idolize a close friend and try to imitate him... Yes. I could see that happening, and it could happen to an Aspie. As written, it doesn't work. Social naivite alone just doesn't explain a complete logic failure.

Well, thank you for telling me I'm "messed up", I'd never noticed before. Of yourse, I went to a REAL public school without the "drugs, sexual promiscuity, violence, etc." that the clichéd public schools in your little fantasy world are riddled with.


I agree, I really like the Zack Addy character. The funny thing is, the actor playing him, Eric Millegan, has a kind of video blog on YouTube in which he outs himself as the most stereotypical NT imaginable! Listen to this link and you will hear the kind of spectacularly boring prattle from him that you would try to run away from at a party.

Don't worry, I went to public schools too.

I really should have sued them for the garbage I came out with because of what went on in my school.

As a whole, I've seen private school kids and home school kids, and so long as they are allowed social interaction with people of all ages while being home schooled, the only "weird" thing about them is that they grew up without the garbage that goes on in a typical public school. I find the reason they seem weird is that they know how to interact on a higher level than most high school kids I've seen lately. Hate to sound mean about it, but what passes for education today is downright scary, and discipline is a word you don't even see being used in the public schools anymore.

Thanks for the correction Callista. If indeed a person with AS could function as Temperance does, I guess it is a fair representation. I'm surprised because from what I've read, people with AS struggle with the awkwardness to the point that they aren't eager to be around others until they find a way to hide the awkwardness factor. People might look at me and notice that since I'll start talking to anyone, I'm not avoidant, but at the same time, I have to push myself to be that way so I don't turn into a total hermit. Can one see that internal struggle? Probably not...and it wouldn't translate very well on camera if an actor wanted to portray it. It would also be less of a problem if someone with AS surrounds themselves with people who are very accepting of them and the quirks they exhibit (as what seems to be the case with Temperance on Bones).

Not to go off on a long tangent, but would AS interfere with someone like Temperance being successful at what she does? I have issues of interest, but what is a problem is two basic issues.

1. If I start to lose interest, I'll abandon the field. I don't know if all AS people drift from one topic of interest to another or if some stay fixated on one for their whole lives. This is why I never seem to pursue any life goal more than 5-6 years. Something holds an interest for me, but in time my interests shift and spending the next 20 years doing it terrifies me because I don't like it anymore.

2. As much as I can learn about something, I find (at times) that I have so much in my head that I'm overwhelmed by the load of all of it. It gives me headaches, sometimes I just shut down in any attempt to process it all. Is this a common problem for those with AS?

I can fixate on one or two elements of the "big picture" of what I know but trying to get it to all come together is overwhelming. When I was interning in grad school, I could make an analysis of all the material I read and come to a conclusion, but if pressed to explain how I got to that conclusion, it overwhelmed me. It's as if my brain could process all the data on an intuitive level and spit out a result, but if I had to "show my work," tracing back all the data overwhelmed my brain.

My take on the subject is that they were created, the characters, not specifically with the idea of being autistic spectrum in mind, but that they fit to this social achetype/stereotype of "geeky gemius" that is based on a lot of real people who are hyperfocused, intelligent, and yet socially clueless by nature and uninformed about conventions by their lack of interest in them.

and of course, a lot of the people in the real world who display these behaviours are high functioning autistic or whatever you want to call it.

Many Aspies are socially avoidant, but not all. Try meeting a young Aspie--a really young one, younger than six. You'll probably see someone who may be relatively shy, or may be outgoing and odd, but will also be quite forthright with you about what he likes and what he thinks, and won't really care too much about hiding his weirdness. That's what AS looks like before society gets a chance to peck away at someone's self-confidence. Of course sometimes the misguided parents and therapists get in there before six and the kid turns into a neurotic mess even earlier, but the basic principle of it is that Aspies seem to be more often naturally introverted (people focus on the skills they're better at) but not necessarily naturally avoidant.

AS people do drift from one topic to another. I do. I've stayed within the general topic of science all my life; but it's been as diverse as sociology versus astrophysics. Every once in a while it'll be something that borders on history; but then it'll go back to science--like I'd get interested in the Holocaust, and then start studying psychology to try to figure out what made the average German go along with it.

But yeah, I've been too overloaded to study one of my special interests too. It's utterly frustrating because then you end up just doing stupid, useless things instead of something you enjoy, because your special interest takes brain power to start and continue doing. I think an Aspie who can't do his special interest is probably one of the saddest things in the world, right next to a dog whose master just left him at the pound.

On the bright side, once the overload eases off you're generally able to continue pursuing your fascination; and as for the dog, he probably got adopted by a rescue group which trains assistance dogs. (We have one in our area. I might get an internship. Fingers crossed!)

I've always felt that both Zach and Bones were aspies, though I don't know quite how intentionally. I've read several articles and interviews that say that the characters' behaviors were influenced by Asperger's, but nothing definitive or specific.

I agree that it is important to note differences between seasons, just as with Monk and House. I've followed all three series fairly regularly and remember them each quite well. Bones makes progress with her social skills over time, though she continues to offend people regularly with her abrupt and blunt manner, not to mention the fact that she interrupts people all the time. In the recent season finale, she mentions this in a conversation with Boothe, pointing out that over the years, he has taught her the importance of eye contact, among other social expectations. She makes eye contact because she has to in order to offend people less frequently, but as my very NT mother often points out, Bones tends to "stare," as opposed to making "appropriate" eye contact. In regards to sensory problems, I don't remember that being addressed, though her work environment is, to me anyway, pretty aspie-friendly. No bright lights, no loud noises, and a very understanding group of coworkers who don't really care how she acts. The majority of her work is either independent or with only one person. Futhermore, her interactions that require a certain amount of sensitivity are generally preceded by a bit of coaching from either Boothe or Angela. They frequently acknowledge that she struggles in that area, and if they know it's coming, they talk to her about how to handle the situation, and how even if she doesn't think something is important, other people may FEEL that it's important, and how to address those issues. To me, Bones is a very well adjusted aspie with an excellent support system, and Zach... well, Zach doesn't have the experience or coaching or support that she does, and thus struggles with social interaction more than she does.

Who knows though. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, lol.

Bones reminds me of myself as a child, before it was repeatedly drummed into me how different and weird I was.

You have to keep in mind that she's a woman, which makes her slightly different from the AS-stereotype. But given the way some of you guys seem to think she's perfectly normal I can assure you none of you would be able to spot me as having AS (which I do, diagnosed and all) *aspie undercover*

LipstickKiller is a NINJA ASPIE!! !

Wooooo hooooooo! So glad there's a post on this My roommates are into Bones & I so thought, "Hm.... wonder if Brennan is on the autism spectrum " Sounds like she could be. Don't know if the film-makers had that intent though.

From what I read elsewhere, Brennan was portrayed by the author as being, "Socially awkward." Now, if She had had a psych eval, she would probably be considered on the spectrum. However, the author probably intended her to be so involved with her work, that it would make her more "quantitative" as opposed to emotional (given her past). The same could be said for Zach. If anything, it seems that our culture sees people who are hyper-involved with their work to be more like scientists where they tune in so much that they are considered to "have no life." If you're not a scientist, but are like this, you're just weird or antisocial. Apparently, it's the stereotype for scientists to be socially awkward, but not necessarily autistic.

I don't watch the show, but IIRC the creator said that Brennan does have Asperger's.

What!?!?!?!?! Weird, but cool / interesting Where did you hear that!?!?