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jimservo
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15 May 2007, 7:18 pm

I have the series on DVD. Except for Voyager, which I saw only the first two seasons of (which a few exceptions), I feel it is the weakest Star Trek series. It took a lot of time for the show to get on track, and to be honest, one could argue it never really entirely got it's bearings entirely. I did enjoy the third season, which did a good job at putting a single continuing storyline into a single year. The fourth season, I thought, had it's strengths and weaknesses. The first two years were somewhat unimpressive, and did not do much in establishing the show as different, except in a cosmetic sense.



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16 May 2007, 7:49 pm

I don't understand what it is with all ya'll who dislike or hate Voyager. It was the best by far, it had a woman captain who didn't bat an eye at trouble or attempt some soliloquy about something like the others did.

Enterprise was good, especially the 3rd season, which I just got done watching. I liked the Trip/T'pol romantic interlude and the fact that they had sex, was surprising, now I wonder if they'll get together in Season 4, and NO ONE TELL Me, I WANT TO FIND OUT FOR MYSELF.


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Xenon
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16 May 2007, 8:08 pm

Gamester wrote:
I don't understand what it is with all ya'll who dislike or hate Voyager. It was the best by far, it had a woman captain who didn't bat an eye at trouble or attempt some soliloquy about something like the others did.


Voyager had a great premise (which they pissed away after the first episode), and a great cast of characters. Unfortunately, it also had abysmally bad writing. I liked Captain Janeway... but the series itself never really got any good. And when Seven of Nine joined the cast, the series turned into the Janeway-and-Seven Show.


greenblue wrote:
From the all the 5 series, the best is The Next Generation wich is my favorite, who can be better and wiser than Jean Luc Picard?


I never liked Picard. He seemed to be always using the Prime Directive as an excuse to do nothing, then gloat about how morally superior he was.

(This is really strange considering that I really like Patrick Stewart as an actor.)


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GoonSquad
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16 May 2007, 8:09 pm

I caught TOS in after school reruns and got hooked as a kid. I really tried to like TNG (I respect that many others do) but it was too bland for me. I loved DS9 for its conflict, darkness and (IMO) more complex characters.
I also tried to watch Voyager and Enterprise. They weren't 'bad', but neither of those managed to capture my attention.



daveyw
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19 May 2007, 8:05 pm

My major criticism of Star Trek is, over time, the show(s) have moved from being perfectly willing to be critical of the self to being completely critical of the other.

The original series was perfectly happy (and very good at) doing stories that examined many of "our" core beliefs, and wasn't afraid to come away saying we need to grow up as a species. But that went out the window, and now Star Trek is about Americans boldly going where no-one has gone before, telling them to stop being so damn un-American and threatening to blow them up if they doing start acting like Americans. The stories always take the moral high ground and look down their noses at other cultures.

One notable exception was religion in DS9. In pretty much all ST, religion is a crock, a scam. The natives are worshipping a false god, and it's up to the brave boys to show them that spirituality is wrong and they should embrace technology instead (BTW, personally I'm an atheist). However, the whole of DS9 can be read as Sisko rejecting Star Fleet's paradigm of the "wormhole aliens" and embracing Bajor's religious prophets.

Enterprise was really where this steady progression reached its nadir, which is really odd, because it was set so far back in time that the barbaric ages of humanity should be a recent memory.

An example of this whole process is the Organians. They appeared twice in Star Trek, very early on in Errand of Mercy, and in the last series of Enterprise, Observer Effect.

In Errand Of Mercy the Organians are revealed to be morally superior, because they tell us to stop fighting like children and grow up. However Observer Effect treats them as morally inferior, because they don't become involved to save lives. The first story yields the moral high ground to an expression that will run counter to the veiwer's beliefs, the second merely serves to underline the viewer's moral code, and make them feel superior.

I think that's why they bucked continuity with respect to the Vulcans, the producers couldn't stand the idea of giving "Them" a morally superior position, so they got taken down.



wildthing121675
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20 May 2007, 9:57 pm

I hated Enterprise ever since season 2 ended. I hated the Xindi story arc, I hated the way the went away from the established Star Trek canon lines. I take my Star Trek seriously. I consider the fan film series Star Trek Hidden Frontier to be more canon than Enterprise. I thought Enterprise was stupid, and the finale to Enterprise was a JOKE.

Enterprise had some good episodes, but I thought the show was not the best, It left a lot to be desired from Paramount/CBS, which I am also pissed off that they cancelled Jericho, which had more potential than Enterprise.

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Xenon
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20 May 2007, 10:17 pm

wildthing121675 wrote:
I hated Enterprise ever since season 2 ended. I hated the Xindi story arc, I hated the way the went away from the established Star Trek canon lines. I take my Star Trek seriously. I consider the fan film series Star Trek Hidden Frontier to be more canon than Enterprise. I thought Enterprise was stupid, and the finale to Enterprise was a JOKE.

Enterprise had some good episodes, but I thought the show was not the best,


I thought the whole Xindi arc was contrived and unnecessary. Season 4 rocked... and the series got cancelled just as it was getting good.

And the series finale was a slap in the face to fans of the series.


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matt271
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21 May 2007, 1:01 pm

was the series final the one with the terrorist who took over some mars station and tried to attack star fleet?
i rem watching that ep thinking the whole time that guy was a romulan trying to stop the federation from being formed, but it turned out he was just some jackass :P
really he looked and sounded romulan just w/out the funny face and ears.



Xenon
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21 May 2007, 5:56 pm

matt271 wrote:
was the series final the one with the terrorist who took over some mars station and tried to attack star fleet?
i rem watching that ep thinking the whole time that guy was a romulan trying to stop the federation from being formed, but it turned out he was just some jackass :P
really he looked and sounded romulan just w/out the funny face and ears.


No, the series finale took place six years after the rest of Season 4 and had a "framing sequence" in which Will Riker, aboard the Enterprise-D, uses the holodeck to witness the events of the final voyage of Archer's Enterprise, interacting with the crew by posing as the ship's cook.


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matt271
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21 May 2007, 6:57 pm

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now i remember that ep. lol the actors for ricker and troy are all old and fat now



greenblue
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21 May 2007, 11:02 pm

Xenon wrote:
I never liked Picard. He seemed to be always using the Prime Directive as an excuse to do nothing, then gloat about how morally superior he was.

(This is really strange considering that I really like Patrick Stewart as an actor.)

I like 24th century superior morality, so much better than the 21 century we have today.

I love Picard because he is Gene Roddenbery with a starfleet uniform.



ahayes
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21 May 2007, 11:19 pm

They cancelled it just when it was getting to be good. :cry: :cry: :cry:



Apatura
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21 May 2007, 11:24 pm

matt271 wrote:
i heard the actor for Captain Archer was a male model lmao


He was in that sci-fi show Quantum Leap. I vaguely remember watching it when I was a kid. He was also in "American Beauty."



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22 May 2007, 1:43 am

Cade wrote:
Actually the Vulcans on Enterprise were pretty much as Roddenberry intended them. The way Vulcans ended up being portrayed on other post-TOS series was a very narrow, cliched manner that focused heavily on one dimension of the race mainly because that's what the fans liked, even though Roddenberry had a bigger and far more interesting concept behind them. What I like about Enterprise in they got more into Roddenberry's original idea of Vulcans as an intensely emotional, even violent and treacherous race that had to learn logic and detachment to save themselves from their own inner chaos and self-undoing. I mean, he didn't call them "Vulcans" (Latin for "volcano") just because that sounded cool. But whatever. Trekkies can be idiots as much as anyone else. If Vulcans can't be treacherous or have the free will to do unethical things, then how do you explain the Romulans? It's like the fans want the Vulcans to be genetic predisposed to being ethical, logical and thoroughly one-dimensional. Boring. We already had three series of those Vulcans. I like the idea that Vulcans have to strive to be honorable just as much as other races.


Actually "Vulcan" is the Roman name for Hephaestos, who was the blacksmith of the gods and who was responsible for overseeing the Cyclopes. Among other things, Vulcan/Hephaestos and the Cyclopes manufactured Zeus' lightening. Volcanoes are so called because it was said that Vulcan etc dwelled within the mountain. (He was also married to Venus / Aphrodite)

But anyway... There are episodes of other series (including Next Generation and Voyager) that show instances of Vulcans struggling to control their intense emotions. They are not always portrayed as automatically logical.

Incidentally, perhaps someone could help me with something. Did the guy who played Tuvok in Voyager also have a small part in Generations?


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matt271
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22 May 2007, 2:34 am

Apatura wrote:
matt271 wrote:
i heard the actor for Captain Archer was a male model lmao


He was in that sci-fi show Quantum Leap. I vaguely remember watching it when I was a kid. He was also in "American Beauty."


oh i seen him in american beauty. he does the gay thing really well.

ping-machine wrote:
Incidentally, perhaps someone could help me with something. Did the guy who played Tuvok in Voyager also have a small part in Generations?


star trek uses the same background actors a lot, and some of them work their way up to bigger rolls. tuvok played a human on an ep of TNG where he had the same hair and everything, just not the ears. on generations he was Enterprise-B Tactical Lieutenant according to IMDb.



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22 May 2007, 4:00 am

Yeah thought I spotted him there!! ! (Tim Russ, isn't he?)


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