[ POLL ] The Bechdel Test.

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According to Wikipedia...

"The Bechdel Test is a measure of the representation of women in fiction.  It asks whether a work features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man.  The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added."

The article goes on to enumerate the rules of this 'test':

1. The movie has to have at least two women in it ...
2. ... who talk to each other ...
3. ... about something other than a man.

Some people add a fourth rule:

4. The two women must be named.

The Bechdel Test is applicable to determining if a movie is worth seeing or not.  The assumption being if women are presented as characters only in relation to men, then the movie is not worth seeing; but if the movie passes the Bechdel Test, then it is worth seeing.  Based on the Bechdel Test from 1/3 to 1/2 of the movies (allegedly) pass this test -- some say the numbers are much lower.

(Note: The Bechdel Test is also applicable to television shows and written/illustrated stories.)

What do you think?  Do you, or would you use this test before deciding to see another movie?

You may choose only one option from the poll, but you may change your choice at any time.

If you select an option, please post a comment; and if you post a comment, please select an option.

Thank you.

It depends.

It's a nice idea in theory. Feminist idea and why shouldn't women characters talk about something other than men? Women do irl. Men in movies don't just talk about women.

But in practice, a movie that passes isn't always the most feminist movie and a movie that doesn't isn't always the most sexist.

And honestly when I go to the cinema or even watching netflix, there's only a certain amount I care about politics. I just want to watch a good movie & either turn my brain off for a while or set my brain onto some weird world or paradox like Inception or Primer or somehting like that.

I think film makers should strive for it if they want to make a feminist movie but not as a box filling exercise in an otherwise sexist movie.

(•) It Depends.

All politics and egalitarian affectations aside, I enjoy movies, TV programs, and books that feature characters that are defined more by their actions than by their sex, gender, race, age, et cetera.  The stories just seem to flow better when the focus of the plot is more on what happens than on what the characters happen to be.

That is not to say that I would not like to see pretty women in tight, revealing costumes beating the snot out of some jerk who totally deserves it...

Last edited by Fnord on 08 Oct 2020, 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

I do not use the Bechdel Test to determine what movies I will see, but awareness of the test does shape my opinion of a movie. Failing the Bechdel Test will not necessarily cause me to dislike a movie, but passing the test with flying colors can cause me to like a movie more. I don't think of it in terms of politics, feminism, etc. I think of it as a metric for feeling more natural and better reflecting the way people really are.

I was delighted and impressed when Annihilation ate the Bechdel Test for breakfast and spat out a good, absorbing, science fiction movie.

The Bechdel test is not the sole way to see if a movie is good, or even actually feminist, as my guess of the above the Rick and Morty clip makes fun of the fact that something could pass it without doing it in a good way. But it is regardless something worth looking at to see how there can be strange double standards of gender representation in movies.

Well...isn't that special?

IIRC, Alison Bechdel herself denied that her test was an absolute measure of the quality of a movie. More an indication of the social biases in movies generally, bad or good. Some common sense is needed- a claustrophobic drama set on board a Cold War nuclear submarine shouldn't even try to pass the Bechdel test, but if a recent film set in present-day London fails it, what the hell are they playing at? It's instructive to consider the "Reverse Bechdel Test" too. Does the film contain a conversation between two (named) male characters that is not about a woman? I've played that game with films that passed the Reverse Bechdel in the pre-title sequence, but utterly failed the Bechdel.

Pfiffle typical male mammalian POV ... appears

Looololololz. Eww .

Yeah, it definitely shouldn't be the only way to determine if a show portrays women properly. Here's an example of when it would technically pass:

The sister of the main character is introduced earlier in a movie bugging her older brother with her best friend. The two girls are introduced as Angela and Kate. They're trying to get the brother to eat something they learned how to make on the internet that looks really weird. A flashback scene shows them watching a video of the recipe, and then going into the kitchen to try to make it. They talk to each other about the recipe and how weird it is, then have a conversation about a tv show they were watching earlier as the food is in the oven without mentioning a male character from that show. At no point do they mention the brother until they already had the mom try what they made.Then it cuts to the present with the brother refusing to try what they made before trying it, then thinking it tastes good.

It would be a stereotypical situation of a younger sister being "annoying" to her brother, and of two girls cooking something. It wouldn't be anything really revolutionary or subversive of expectations, but it would pass the test.

I don't consciously use it, but I am aware that I don't like movies about romance and would prefer to watch something that reflects how women really talk to each other.

I can't remember the last time I had a conversation with a female friend about a man apart from asking how my friends parents are. One is a man.

I'm enjoying watching Borgen at the moment. Women talking mostly about political intrigue and trying to solve problems. I like The Good Wife too. There's a bit of romance, but mostly it's "How do we solve this problem?"

I can't think of any movies where women spend a significant part of the movie talking about things other than romance. I'm open to recommendations.

Last edited by hurtloam on 13 Dec 2020, 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ha ha, that's very good.

It's isn't a foolproof test. I think it's meant to make people think about how they use women in stories.

Often a woman is just a girlfriend and not particularly useful to the plot. The point is, can we give women more to do in a story. If not, why not? Is it really a good reason?

I don't use the Bechdel Test to choose movies nor is it a significant factor in my enjoyment of a movie, but I am mildly pleased when I notice a movie I'm watching would pass the test.

Offhand I can think of three movies that I liked, that would pass the Bechdel Test, and "where women spend a significant part of the movie talking about things other than romance." I can't say whether or not you'd like these movies because they might not even be in genres you care to watch. But, here goes:

Wonder Woman [2017]. This movie is in the "DC Extended Universe" of films and is likely the best of them--so far. The "significant part of the movie" where women talk "about things other than romance" is not the majority of the film, but it is still a significant part of the film. Incidentally, besides passing the Bechdel Test and a focus on a strong female character, the film was also directed by a woman.

Ghostbusters [2016]. This is the one with Melissa McCarthy that was a reboot of Ghostbusters [1984]. Sigh, I thought the film was good, a lot of fun, and very respectful of the original Ghostbusters film. Sadly, it did not do well. There are, however, a number of conversations in the film where the highly-educated female characters are drooling over a man, solely lusting for him--the guy in question is the hollow-headed Chris Hemsworth character and the gals clearly have absolutely no respect for his absent intellect.

Annihilation [2018]. A good science fiction horror. Much of the movie might make you feel uneasy because everything is kind of wrong. The Bechdel Test criteria is having two named female characters that talk about something other than a man. This film overwhelmingly passes the test...to the extent that it's not clear to me whether it has two named male characters that talk to each other about anything!

@OP

No one is going to dictate my viewing practices.
I believe in freedom of thought and choice.
I don't have a politically left-wing orientation.

There isn't a shortage of PC movies these days.
I have no problems with egalitarianism.
I enjoy strong female protagonists.
Women are goodly.

Well, I would argue that PC doesn't mean good female protagonists. Oceans 8 or whatever it's called, with Sandra Bullock, was lousy.