Does anyone like Captain America: The First Avenger?

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micfranklin
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10 Apr 2014, 7:13 am

Spoiler wrote:

Making the fact that SHIELD has been infiltrated by HYDRA for the last 70 years and using the Winter Soldier to "correct" history in case it got out of hand all the more terrifying. Now half of SHIELD, including Alexander Pierce and that senator from Iron Man 2 are actually HYDRA agents.

Moviefan2k4
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10 Apr 2014, 8:36 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

The only thing missing from Captain America: The Winter Soldier was Hugo Weaving reprising his role as the Red Skull. Obviously, he was only absorbed into the cosmic cube, and not really dead. Instead, they brought in the algorithms of that Swiss collaborator, Zola, in the Hydra computer. I guess Weaving wasn't allowed to leave the set of the Hobbit movies, even for just a day's work.

Weaving has said his experience with the first film isn't one he'd like to repeat. Apparently, he'd never played a strict "comic-book villain" before, and treated it like a big experiment. He was contracted for three appearances as the Red Skull, and has admitted the Marvel guys could legally force him to reprise the role, but also commented he didn't think they would.

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micfranklin
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10 Apr 2014, 9:38 am

Assuming he doesn't, who would they cast to be the Red Skull now?

KyleTheGhost
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10 Apr 2014, 9:45 am

I thought the Skull was destroyed by the Cosmic Cube?

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Kraichgauer
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10 Apr 2014, 11:32 am

KyleTheGhost wrote:

I thought the Skull was destroyed by the Cosmic Cube?

I thought he was just absorbed by it. That in fact had happened to the Hate Monger in - what I believe - was the final issue of Supervillain Team-up, starring the Red Skull and the Hate Monger.

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micfranklin
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10 Apr 2014, 12:44 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

KyleTheGhost wrote:

I thought the Skull was destroyed by the Cosmic Cube?

I thought he was just absorbed by it. That in fact had happened to the Hate Monger in - what I believe - was the final issue of Supervillain Team-up, starring the Red Skull and the Hate Monger.

He's not dead, just stuck in some other dimension I think.

Moviefan2k4
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10 Apr 2014, 4:04 pm

micfranklin wrote:

Assuming he doesn't, who would they cast to be the Red Skull now?

I honestly don't know. One suspicion that turned out to be false was my guess of Pierce being Schmidt in disguise.

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KyleTheGhost
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10 Apr 2014, 4:14 pm

micfranklin wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

KyleTheGhost wrote:

I thought the Skull was destroyed by the Cosmic Cube?

I thought he was just absorbed by it. That in fact had happened to the Hate Monger in - what I believe - was the final issue of Supervillain Team-up, starring the Red Skull and the Hate Monger.

He's not dead, just stuck in some other dimension I think.

If that's true, then they can bring him back if they want to using that explaination.

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GGPViper
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10 Apr 2014, 4:30 pm

Captain America belongs to the superhero equivalent of "low fantasy", where spectacular abilities are much less common.

The problem is that they teamed him up with larger-than-life heroes like Thor and Hulk, both some of the most overpowered individuals in the Marvel universe.

Imagine a crew with Captain America, Daredevil, Gambit, Hawkeye, Elektra and Deadpool instead (hell, even Deadpool is perhaps too overpowered for this crowd).

It would make much more sense to have otherwise somewhat "normal" heroes with a few super-abilities in a group than mixing Captain America with a team including the potentially strongest being in the entire universe and *a GOD*.

Moviefan2k4
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10 Apr 2014, 7:03 pm

KyleTheGhost wrote:

If that's true, then they can bring him back if they want to using that explanation.

Yeah, I never took that scene in the first film as representing Schmidt's death. He grabs the Tesseract, and is enveloped in a blazing blue light. The top of the Valkyrie disappears, replaced by a shot of space looking like something out of "Thor". Finally, there's a huge upward energy surge, like a teleportation beam out of the Bifrost. So, I always assumed Schmidt was taken to another of the Nine Realms. I hope Weaving changes his mind, because I;d love to see Cap fight the Red Skull in the present day...and casting someone else as the villain wouldn't be the same.

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micfranklin
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11 Apr 2014, 7:08 am

GGPViper wrote:

Given that Cap was a major member of the Avengers and always has been associated with them in some way for 50 years, logically it would make more sense to keep him there. Thor and the Hulk, based on the last movie, are the only two incredibly superhuman members of the Avengers though.

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17 Apr 2014, 8:39 am

GGPViper wrote:

Scarlet Witch is, if anything, more powerful.

But the Captain serves an important role. With the exception of Thor, the others are basically there because of their smarts; Banner and Stark are scientists with no military training, and Black Widow and Hawkeye fall somewhere in the middle, but generally aren't used to being in a team. Rogers is a trained soldier, and therefore a valuable leader and strategist. In this respect, his role is somewhat comparable to Batman in Justice League (though Batman is self taught, and if anything even less powerful compared to his allies).

micfranklin
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17 Apr 2014, 10:11 am

The_Walrus wrote:

GGPViper wrote:

That and Batman carries tons of equipment on him whereas Cap only has his shield.

alwaystomorrow
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17 Apr 2015, 1:13 pm

I'm super late to the party, but my two cents --

I thought I'd hate Captain America. PATRIOTISM! RIGHTEOUSNESS! But I had to watch all the prequels for the Avengers, right? Ah well, at least I'd get a good laugh, right?

Boy, was I wrong. I wasn't expecting Steve Rogers. Captain America? To quote Bucky Barnes: "Hell, no. That little guy from Brooklyn who was too dumb not to run away from a fight. I'm following him."

The thing you've gotta see is that Steve Rogers isn't just your run-of-the-mill underdog. No.
In the area of eugenics, a strong anti-Irish climate, and a lot of distrust of Catholics and communists, Stan Lee gave us Steven Grant Rogers, chronically ill, Irish Catholic, working class, artist son of a working single mother (the artist bit's relevant because the artistic community in Brooklyn and NY was very, very liberal with strong communist leanings at the time) ... who gets turned into THE symbol of US-American-ness. And does the job so very, very well.

That's kind of akin to choosing a gay Mexican muslim (slight hyperbole, but you get my drift) for that job today.

So. I liked it, but probably not for the reasons most people did. I'm a nerd for historical accuracy, what can I say.

The_Walrus wrote:

But the Captain serves an important role. With the exception of Thor, the others are basically there because of their smarts; Banner and Stark are scientists with no military training, and Black Widow and Hawkeye fall somewhere in the middle, but generally aren't used to being in a team. Rogers is a trained soldier, and therefore a valuable leader and strategist. In this respect, his role is somewhat comparable to Batman in Justice League (though Batman is self taught, and if anything even less powerful compared to his allies).

Yes! And I love how the fact that he's both a soldier with some leadership experience and a bloody self-sacrificing idiot comes into all the films he's been in so far (Winter Soldier was a special brand of painful in that respect).

Tangentially related: has anyone else watched the Agent Carter series?

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