How I became a Batman fan

Post Reply New Topic

I was never really a Batman fan until I watched The Dark Knight in 2008. Anyone in this forum who were not Batman fans until they watched The Dark Knight in 2008.

Nope. I've been a Batman fan since reading comics and watching "Batman: The Animated Series" and its spin-offs. I thought Batman Begins and The Dark Knight were really good except they got exactly the wrong actor to play Batman. Christian Bale is not a bad actor, but he's completely wrong for that part. Batman doesn't scream and growl at people. He went to Tibet to learn how to keep calm in a fight - that means he probably wouldn't scream and growl at people except on very rare occasions. He should be like Sherlock Holmes crossed with a ninja, crossed with Zorro, transposed to a modern day city, wearing a bat costume. None of those things suggest he should go around growling at people. He should be intimidatingly calm and impressively intelligent and super-prepared, not some testosterone-overdosed raging loudmouth. His Batman voice is just ridiculous, and it's even more ridiculous that he talks to Lucius and Alfred in it.
That aside, they're very good movies. Well written, interesting, and the Joker was just fantastic. Definitely far better than the Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher Batman movies.

Disagree, i think that Christian Bale is a decent Bruce Wayne, and a better Batman than West, Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney will ever be. And the Christopher Nolan films are better than the original four. I'd rather have Bale use a new level of intimidation to make the character that more threatening, he DOES NOT use ridiculous campy puns like West used in the 60's. The criticism of his voice is so predictable and so 2008, but for me, Kevin Conroy is the best voice.

I became a Batman fan after i watched Batman 89 on VHS when i was 6, and i was completely blown away by the gothic original score, Jack Nicholson's hammy Joker, and the awesome pieces of tech in the Batmobile and the Batwing. After that, i became hooked on the Animated Series and was smuggled into a screening of Batman Returns, before seeing the awful Joel Schumacher instalments. As i got older and went to college, i began dabbling in the comics, including the Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum, The Long Halloween and Hush.

Add on the inclusion of the Arkham Asylum and Arkham City games, and you've got a pretty big Bat-fan.

You said it with the six last words of this paragraph. Kevin Conroy's take on Batman (once he settled into the role) was perfect. Because he played Batman as the real guy and Bruce Wayne as "putting on a voice", which is the way to do it. Regarding Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney, it shouldn't be about measuring one actor against others that have played the part in the past. It should be about measuring the performance against the character and context, and Christian Bale simply doesn't play the character of Batman particularly well. He plays a guy dressing up and growling at people. That's not what Batman is, psychologically. He became Batman the moment he made the decision to become Batman. In that moment, there was no longer a "real Bruce". Bruce, from that moment, became an act. That should be reflected in the performance. And it sort of is, in Bale's version of Bruce. His Bruce reflects the idea that this isn't who he really is. The problem is that his Batman seems even less like who he really is - he just sounds like the Cookie Monster.
I don't disagree that Bale is a good Bruce Wayne, but his Batman needs some serious coaching from Kevin Conroy.

"The criticism of his voice is so predictable and so 2008", you say, and yes, it's predictable because it's obvious. It's obvious that Christian Bale's performance (which is as much Nolan's fault as it is Bale's, since good direction includes telling the actors when they're misunderstanding the characters) contradicts the character in a less than dignified way. Yes, it's "so 2008", because The Dark Knight came out in 2008, and people had already been complaining about Bale's Batman voice for three years and yet neither Bale nor Nolan had listened to the fans and improved the performance for the sequel.

As for Adam West, that's a matter of context. His Batman was a parody, reflecting the campy nature of the comics at the time (which had been terribly watered down by the Comics Code Authority), and within the context of a comedy version of Batman, Adam West did a great job. As did Diedrich Bader in "Batman: The Brave and the Bold". That's a tonally different version of Batman, and to measure those performances against what's supposed to be a played-straight version of the character would just be ridiculous. However, I will note that I think Christian Bale's version of Batman would serve a comedic context much better than it serves the context it's in. Hell, Nic Cage as Big Daddy in Kick-Ass (a performance inspired by Adam West's portrayal of Batman) was a better "serious Batman" than Christian Bale's, if you ask me, simply because he played it intelligent and quiet rather than as a growling maniac.

I meant to say that all the criticism on Bale's voice is ridiculous, it seems that the fans would rather have same lame campy puns, or (shudder) another Kilmer or Clooney clone. And yes Bale's voice is questionable, but the criticism is so predictably boring now.

Regarding Kevin Conroy, he is still the best voice-over, but we all can't have a perfect Batman movie. All these so-called "fans" need to stop whining and moaning and b**ching about Bale's voice. It. Is. OLD. NEWS.

You keep bringing up lame puns (predictable indeed). That's writing, not acting (unless you think Adam West and George Clooney improvised their lines, which I'm fairly certain they didn't). Hell, sure, if you wanna talk about Clooney, why not? Clooney's a good actor. Give him a good script and good direction, and I'm sure he could bring a better Batman than Bale. "Batman & Robin" didn't suck because of Clooney. It sucked because it was a glorified toy commercial that couldn't decide if it should follow in the footsteps of the 1989 movie or the 1966 TV show, and completely failed to back it up with a good script. Clooney didn't make that movie suck. He didn't exactly help, but no actor could have, because you can't make decent lemonade out of rotten lemons. That movie would have sucked just as badly with any other actor (including Christian Bale) in the benippled bat suit. I'm not saying Clooney would be perfect for the part (he'd be a really weird choice) but do you really think if George Clooney had been in Batman Begins, instead of Batman & Robin, that he'd deliver the same exact performance? I don't. He'd probably try a lot harder to do the character and script justice, and he'd probably do at least slightly better than Bale. Keep in mind he would have had an extra decade of experience and an academy award, as well as some directing experience. I see no reason to suspect he would have delivered an immature or phoned-in performance. However, he would have been completely wrong for the part, simply because he's too old to play a young Batman. My point is that blaming Clooney for Batman & Robin is like blaming the waiter for food poisoning. Take it to the kitchen, talk to the chefs, leave the waiter out of it.


Yes, it's old news, but they've had two sequels to fix the problem, and they don't seem to have done a thing. That's worth bitching about.

Nolan is laughing all the way to the bank though, and I bet that whoever takes over the reigns once the Nolanverse reaches it's conclusion, the fans will b***h and moan about who is next to put on the cape and cowl because they always find something else to nitpick about. And it was meddling studio execs that made the Schumacher movies so bloody awful and neon-drenched, Schumacher wanted to do a Year One movie in the wake of the glorious Bat-flop of 1997. And comparing Bale to Clooney is laughable in itself. You can argue over their career highs and lows until your blue in the face, they are 2 completely different actors.

I just watched Batman Begins night before last. We have had it quite a while, and we also have another one. I watched BB because Christian Bale was in it. I had forgotten he was in it and my oldest daughter reminded me. I said "I don't much care for Batman" and she said "You will now, just watch it". She was right.

I didn't care at all about the actual Batman stuff he did, just that it was Christian Bale doing it.

I also liked him in American Psycho.

Well, yes, because they're good movies. In fact, I'd say they're among my favorite movies. But I still reserve the right to say that Christian Bale as Batman just doesn't feel right to me, and I don't care one bit if that's a cliched thing to say, because it's true.

Well, yes, some people will nitpick just for the sake of nitpicking, but I'm nitpicking because I can see what works and what doesn't. Overall, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are very good movies in my opinion. Excellent writing, no complaints about the style, and most of the acting is great. I didn't go into Batman Begins looking to point at Christian Bale and go "boo!", and his performance didn't bother me enough to make me not like the movie, but it did stand out as the most distracting flaw, and it only got worse in The Dark Knight, because Christian Bale somehow got it in his head that Batman is a raging loudmouth, which is in stark contrast to the story being told. It's not necessarily a sign of a bad actor (and certainly not enough to make a bad movie), so much as a sign of poor acting choices, which is something that happens to everyone in that profession. You take a role, you read the script, you get an idea in your head of what you're supposed to do, and you go do that. Sometimes it misfires, and in my opinion, Nolan should have said something. That's not nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. That's pointing out what I consider to be an oversight.


But, you see, that's exactly my point. They're completely different actors, and the kind of actor Christian Bale is (or at the very least the performance he decided or was instructed to give), is in my opinion wrong for this particular character in this particular franchise, whereas George Clooney, who I don't recall being the kind of actor who defaults to screaming at people, is closer to the style of actor that I believe could have served the character a bit better in the context of a well written, serious take on Batman such as these. That's not to say "a young George Clooney type" would be my first thought in casting the part, but it would probably come up sooner than "whoever screams the loudest" if all other alternatives were eliminated.

I remember watching Batman related stuff back when I was a kid. I never read any comics though. I remember watching the Bruce Timm animated series every Saturday morning on some UK show. I can't remember what it was called. Also I remember watching the Adam West show on Channel 4 in prime time long before The Simpsons aired on that channel, heck before they were on BBC 2. Of course I wasn't that crazy about Batman like I am now, because at that time I believe I was obsessed with Power Rangers and soon other stuff like Pokemon and Digimon. I was starting to get into superheroes around the time I saw the first Spider-Man movie in 2002 and I was more obsessed with Spidey and other Marvel heroes at the time but then DC started coming into my life and lets just say right now Batman is the greatest superhero ever.

Fair enough, i guess i'm just one of those who rates Bale as Batman, criticism of voice-work aside. Kevin Conroy will always be the best voice-over though.

Here's what I'm talking about:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efQ4XtGwNKM[/youtube]

And here's Kevin Conroy talking about it as well:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3zJxF-0N3Y[/youtube]

Vince: Ok, yes the voice is pretty bad in The Dark Knight. But, it was pretty good in Batman Begins. And voice aside, Bale still is a pretty good Batman. He still is an excellent fighter, and he's pretty good detective (especially in The Dark Knight),

Plus, he's a FAR better batman than keaton, kilmer, or clooney

And I do like a slight rasp to the voice. I mean, if he was speaking in his normal voice, everyone would know he's Bruce Wayne.

Also, I really like Bruce Greenwood's take on Batman (He also has a slight rasp)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwM1Yjirc_o[/youtube]

To be honest, it's been a while since I saw Batman Begins, but I remember being somewhat distracted by his voice there as well, though not as much as in TDK.


He's a better Bruce Wayne than all three. Not sure he's a better Batman than Keaton (fighting aside - I think that's a matter of having good stunt coordinators, trainers, et.c., so it's unfair to put that entirely on the actor). I didn't much like Tim Burton's Batman movies, but I don't remember having much of a problem with Keaton's acting specifically, except maybe some of the gesturing.


There's a difference between speaking in a social conversation voice and relaxing your voice into a lower tone (Kevin Conroy, case in point). Like how you'd talk differently to your lover than to your employer. That's not to say Batman should speak in a "bedroom voice", but it's the same kind of difference. Less energy, quieter, lower, without making an effort to put on a character. Also comparable to the difference between doing morning zoo type radio and doing jazz radio. You'd use your voice differently, but you'd have to find a tone of voice that's comfortable speaking in every day, otherwise you'd run the risk of losing your voice.


I'm okay with Bruce Greenwood's rasp, but it's a fairly natural, relaxed sounding rasp, whereas Bale's sounds strained to the point of discomfort (and the way the mask restricts his face only amplifies the awkwardness of talking like that).

I found Bruce Greenwood's voice-work fairly decent, same with Neil Patrick Harris providing the voice for Nightwing. As for Bale, his voice was better in Batman Begins than it was in TDK.

I don't want to start a fight here, but what bothers me about the new Batman movies is that the fans act like the movies are greater than what they really are. Sure, they are exciting movies, but some people act like they are lightyears above something like Spiderman or Iron Man that takes itself a little less seriously. I still like them, I'm even going to the marathon at AMC theater leading up to the midnight premiere, but I almost did the same for Avengers. (That would have been 6 movies instead of 3 though, I didn't think I had the patience for that). I just don't like that some people think that "The Dark Knight" was a gift from God or something.