Why do people think Heath Ledger was the best Joker?

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BlueElephantKing
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08 Nov 2012, 7:17 am

I mean, I loved his performance in The Dark Knight, but I don't understand everyone thinks he's the best. I actually prefer Jack Nicholson and Mark Hamill (I know he only did the voice, but it still counts) as the Joker. Why is his role considered the best?



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08 Nov 2012, 9:22 am

BlueElephantKing wrote:
I mean, I loved his performance in The Dark Knight, but I don't understand everyone thinks he's the best. I actually prefer Jack Nicholson and Mark Hamill (I know he only did the voice, but it still counts) as the Joker. Why is his role considered the best?


I've always said you can't compare Nicholson and Ledger, but Nicholson's role at the time was very hammy and OTT, yet scene-stealing at the same time since the original films were all about the villains and never Michael Keaton's Batman. Sadly, these days, Nicholson is just a mobster in clown make-up.

Ledger, on the other hand, gets under the skin and the mask with his jittery, wolf-eyed, kinky-cruel, lip-smacking crack addict Mr J who's not motivated by corny jokes or one-liners "Never rub another man's rhubarb." and just wanted pure anarchy and chaos over the tried and tested Smilex gas plot. If he was never cast, TDK would of never done well at the box office in 2008.

Hamill is the still best voice though.


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TheNexus18
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25 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm

Heath Ledger's Joker was the most realistic and the most successful in terms of actually creeping out the audience. He acted a bit different from the animated Joker that everyone's most likely familiar with, but still the same. What I mean by that is that Joker just seemed to want to raise hell for his own entertainment, but when things start to go wrong he instantly changes personalities to an aggressive, murdering maniac. Unlike Nicholson's Joker, who was just fun and games, Ledger's Joker stuck a bit closer to the comics, where Joker would challenge Batman again and again to break his rule of not killing anyone. If Batman ever killed Joker, the Joker would still win because his point of everyone being corrupt would be proven right. However, if Batman kept him alive, he would continue to show the Joker that he can't be forced to break his rule and become corrupted, which only fuels the Joker's motivation to try harder next time until he finally gets Batman to snap. I feel that Nolan hit this idea from the comics right on the head in the Dark Knight.
Mark Hamill does an excellent job at the same thing, switching Joker's personality from sickly hilarious hellraiser to pissed off psychopath. I grew up with Mark Hamill's Joker in the animated series, and I noticed when I got older that a recurring theme was Joker testing Batman's ability to restrain himself, no matter how bad things got. He constantly orchestrated situations where Batman would have to choose between killing Joker in order to save someone's life or let Joker live and let the victim die to remain true to his golden rule. Of course, Batman would overcome this situation every time by saving both lives, which would only further motivate him to create a flawless scenario that would force Batman to finally kill him, or someone else.
All Nicholson's Joker really did was try to get revenge on Batman and flirt with Vicky Vale. While in the climax in the belltower he did try to get Batman to let him go or let Vicky die, he did it in a pretty dumb un-Joker-like way (I can't remember the movie too well but I think that's how it happened, just the classic hostage situation) without a back-up plan or trap to spring on Batman.
Anyway, those're my two cents. I like them all, but I feel that Hamill and Ledger were the best.



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25 Nov 2012, 12:58 pm

When the 1989 Batman came out Nicholson's performance was popularly acclaimed. It was the talk of that movie, really. I can't help but think that Ledger's untimely demise helped cement the whole mystique surrounding his own performance.



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25 Nov 2012, 2:06 pm

I don't think people think that the Heath Ledger Joker was the best so much as they just like Heath Ledger in general, and his death just prior to the release made him even more popular.

I personally think the Mark Hamil Joker is the best.



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25 Nov 2012, 4:39 pm

Cesar Romero was the best joker, imo, with Jack Nicholson running a close second.



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25 Nov 2012, 10:59 pm

A lot of it has to do with the tone of the films Christopher Nolan was going for, and how well Heath Ledger's performance fit in with that. I would say its not really interchangeable with any other Joker or any other version of the Batman films, Heath Ledger's Joker would feel out of place in Tim Burton's Batman same as Jack Nicholson's Joker would feel out of place in The Dark Knight. But for fitting in with the style Nolan was going for, Heath Ledger without a doubt nailed it.



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26 Nov 2012, 12:07 am

BlueElephantKing wrote:
I mean, I loved his performance in The Dark Knight, but I don't understand everyone thinks he's the best. I actually prefer Jack Nicholson and Mark Hamill (I know he only did the voice, but it still counts) as the Joker. Why is his role considered the best?


I've wondered the exact same thing myself... Or that is, I WOULD HAVE wondered, but I know why. It's very simple. The answer is... because he's dead. Apparently when someone dies, we think we can no longer say anything that doesn't put them high atop a pedestal. Did you notice how for years and years, nobody would ever mention Michael Jackson's name without talking about child molestation... Then he died, and suddenly he's "the king of pop" again, and people were running around wearing michael jackson t-shirts everywhere and talking about how great he and his music were.

Then there's the fact that supposedly Ledger's Joker was more true to the Joker of the comic books, but I wouldn't know, as I've never read any comics. But that's irrelevant, even if it's true because the writer/director tells the actor how to portray the character.

For the record, I thought Jack Nicholson's Joker was much better. He was goofy as hell, and that's what I loved about him. The scene when he goes around the museum, dancing and splattering paint all over everything in it is one of the most memorable movie scenes I've ever seen.



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26 Nov 2012, 2:47 am

I disagree about Michael Jackson, but I do agree about your sentiment, DerStadtschutz.

But I also think that a lot has to go to not just Heath Ledger's performance as an actor, but also to the screenwriters. It should be kept in mind as well that I haven't seen much of Batman: The Animated Series, while I have seen the original Tim Burton Batman several times. And it should never be said that Jack Nicholson is not a great Joker, nor Mark Hamill for that matter. It's like comparing the actors who played the Doctor from Doctor Who. While there are certainly favourites, it is hard not to do a good job as the Doctor.


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26 Nov 2012, 3:34 am

Quatermass wrote:
I disagree about Michael Jackson, but I do agree about your sentiment, DerStadtschutz.


Just out of curiosity, what about Michael Jackson do you disagree with me on? The fact that people started acting like they loved him again after he died? Maybe it just didn't happen wherever you're from or something, but I know around here and on the internet I noticed nobody making jokes or even mentioning the child molestation thing anymore. In fact, to this day, since the day he died, I have yet to see/hear mention of such a thing.

I was trying to find a clip, but it might help if I could remember which show it was from... George Carlin talked about the same thing by describing a dialogue between two people that went something like this:

"Bill's an as*hole!"
"You know he died last week?"
"...but a WELL MEANING as*hole..."



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26 Nov 2012, 3:44 am

Well when Michael Jackson was alive, sure people talked about his weird behavior and the accusations of child molestation, but even then most would agree that he was incredibly talented when it came to music. After his death, his music is what will live on now that he will no longer show up in the evening news or tabloids.



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20 Dec 2012, 3:00 am

heath ledger as the joker was convincingly terrifying and real. thats what made him so good



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20 Dec 2012, 7:47 am

TheNexus18 wrote:
Heath Ledger's Joker was the most realistic and the most successful in terms of actually creeping out the audience. He acted a bit different from the animated Joker that everyone's most likely familiar with, but still the same. What I mean by that is that Joker just seemed to want to raise hell for his own entertainment, but when things start to go wrong he instantly changes personalities to an aggressive, murdering maniac. Unlike Nicholson's Joker, who was just fun and games, Ledger's Joker stuck a bit closer to the comics, where Joker would challenge Batman again and again to break his rule of not killing anyone. If Batman ever killed Joker, the Joker would still win because his point of everyone being corrupt would be proven right. However, if Batman kept him alive, he would continue to show the Joker that he can't be forced to break his rule and become corrupted, which only fuels the Joker's motivation to try harder next time until he finally gets Batman to snap. I feel that Nolan hit this idea from the comics right on the head in the Dark Knight.
Mark Hamill does an excellent job at the same thing, switching Joker's personality from sickly hilarious hellraiser to pissed off psychopath. I grew up with Mark Hamill's Joker in the animated series, and I noticed when I got older that a recurring theme was Joker testing Batman's ability to restrain himself, no matter how bad things got. He constantly orchestrated situations where Batman would have to choose between killing Joker in order to save someone's life or let Joker live and let the victim die to remain true to his golden rule. Of course, Batman would overcome this situation every time by saving both lives, which would only further motivate him to create a flawless scenario that would force Batman to finally kill him, or someone else.
All Nicholson's Joker really did was try to get revenge on Batman and flirt with Vicky Vale. While in the climax in the belltower he did try to get Batman to let him go or let Vicky die, he did it in a pretty dumb un-Joker-like way (I can't remember the movie too well but I think that's how it happened, just the classic hostage situation) without a back-up plan or trap to spring on Batman.
Anyway, those're my two cents. I like them all, but I feel that Hamill and Ledger were the best.


This is the best answer...but I feel like Two-Face in TDK was way way off....simply because Two-Face is good/evil depending on his coin...he is lost without that choice...but in TDK he used it as an excuse to kill people...which isn't Two-Face at all! Harvey Dent was/is still the good side to Two-Face, but in TDK he didn't act like he had two sides....merely Harvey Dent using his disfigured half as an excuse.


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20 Dec 2012, 9:08 am

MacDragard wrote:
I don't think people think that the Heath Ledger Joker was the best so much as they just like Heath Ledger in general, and his death just prior to the release made him even more popular.

I personally think the Mark Hamil Joker is the best.


Yeah, this is it. Ledger's Joker was good and appropriate for the movie, but if he had not died no one would be hailing him as the best Joker.

For me, Mark Hamil's Joker in BTAS and the Arkham games will always define the character. He is the perfect blend of Robin Williams and Hannibal Lecter.

I love the way Joker "helps" the old mobster who comes to him for protection from Batman:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTX4dLGILMI[/youtube]


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20 Dec 2012, 9:28 am

Mark Hamill is the best Joker. Heath Ledger did a great job, but honestly, that was not the Joker. He made a new character loosely based on the Joker, which is great, but still no Joker. Nicholson was an excellent Joker, but he overdid the clown part and was not as creepy as he should.

As GoonSquad said, Hamill is the perfect blend of clown and monster; he could make the whole city terrified just in order to make a harmless prank (like in Christmas with the Joker) or he could go over the edge and do something so terrible that even the stoic Batman would react strongly to it (like what he did to Robin in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etst4t3ES8Y[/youtube]


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20 Dec 2012, 10:54 am

^^^ Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker is the best Joker story on film.


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