Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 

Ahaseurus2000
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,546
Location: auckland

06 Dec 2008, 2:02 am

I recently saw an anime series called "Ergo Proxy" which totally blew me away. has anyone else seen it and what did you think of it?


_________________
Life is Painful. Suffering is Optional. Keep your face to the Sun and never see your Shadow.


mystyc
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 251
Location: College Station, Texas

06 Dec 2008, 2:04 am

Awesome anime.

Have you finished it? If so, then tell me your theories on it.



Loreic
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 95

06 Dec 2008, 7:07 pm

My sister has told me about it, but I'm kind of hesitant about deep and eerie anime. Not saying it isn't good (and I've heard many good things about it) just the feeling I get from them gives me the heeby jeebys.



Ahaseurus2000
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,546
Location: auckland

08 Dec 2008, 9:40 pm

You must see it, Loreic!


* Spoilers *

































I had a little difficulty at first understanding the relationships between the Proxies, Ergo Proxy, The Creator and the Dome City. I think Creator and Ergo Proxy are different beings, I know the Regent speaks of Ergo Proxy as the Creator, but Other Ergo Proxy explains that they are the "Agents of the Creator", even though Ergo Proxy is responsible for creating the City-Dome. that leaves the issue of the "Malice implanted by the Creator", which I misunderstand. Does the creator hate humanity for it's destructiveness? is the Malice a form of self-hatred, or a natural product of an imperfect-being (human) attempting to create a god-being (proxy)? Is Other Ergo Proxy a form of evil twin, or a physical manifestation of Ergo's potential psychosis (reality is he has no memories of a former life to forget, yet he is convinced he has them)? And what of the room of writings in the destroyed Dome? Could all this be an expression of the Malice? And I misunderstand why Monad Proxy and Ergo Proxy fought, when Ergo Proxy loved Monad Proxy (The Regent mentioned that). And finally I need some explaining of the Kogito Virus' purpose and relation to the Proxies, beyond being both an alternative and obstacle to them.


_________________
Life is Painful. Suffering is Optional. Keep your face to the Sun and never see your Shadow.


mystyc
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 251
Location: College Station, Texas

10 Dec 2008, 9:58 am

Hmm, interesting. Let me think about that for a bit.

I am going to use make-shift spoiler tags.

Here's how you do it:

Code:

[quote="spoiler"][color=white]
What do you think project boomerang was really about?
[/color][/quote]


This will create white text on a white background. Then you highlight it to see it.

This will come out as,

spoiler wrote:
What do you think project boomerang was really about?
What do you think project boomerang was really about?


I think it looks better with some bold tags though,

spoiler wrote:
What do you think project boomerang was really about?



Simmian7
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,294
Location: Motown

10 Dec 2008, 6:07 pm

i'm on the last disc of it... man it's been awesome so far.... and i dig that Radiohead is the end credits has a song


_________________
*Christina*

It's like someone's calling out to me. Writing it all down...it's like I'm calling back to them.
(quote from August Rush; but used as a reference to my writing)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
My ASD AQ score is 42
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
#DemandCartoonDiversity


mystyc
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 251
Location: College Station, Texas

11 Dec 2008, 3:30 am

Spoilers that Ahaseurus2000 wrote:
I had a little difficulty at first understanding the relationships between the Proxies, Ergo Proxy, The Creator and the Dome City. I think Creator and Ergo Proxy are different beings, I know the Regent speaks of Ergo Proxy as the Creator, but Other Ergo Proxy explains that they are the "Agents of the Creator", even though Ergo Proxy is responsible for creating the City-Dome. that leaves the issue of the "Malice implanted by the Creator", which I misunderstand. Does the creator hate humanity for it's destructiveness? is the Malice a form of self-hatred, or a natural product of an imperfect-being (human) attempting to create a god-being (proxy)? Is Other Ergo Proxy a form of evil twin, or a physical manifestation of Ergo's potential psychosis (reality is he has no memories of a former life to forget, yet he is convinced he has them)? And what of the room of writings in the destroyed Dome? Could all this be an expression of the Malice? And I misunderstand why Monad Proxy and Ergo Proxy fought, when Ergo Proxy loved Monad Proxy (The Regent mentioned that). And finally I need some explaining of the Kogito Virus' purpose and relation to the Proxies, beyond being both an alternative and obstacle to them.


Hmm, some interesting thoughts and questions, Ahaseurus2000. Here is a short summary of some of the details as I understand it...


Spoilers that mystyc wrote:
At some point in the future, mankind begins to mine methane hydrate ice as a new source of energy. They mined too much, and it uncontrollably released into the atmosphere, wiping out 85% of the population, and destroying the ecosystem. The surviving humans then started the proxy project to restore earth back to normal, but it would take a long amount of time. Thus concurrently they created the Boomerang project in order to survive during that time. I think the Boomerang project was a giant ship that could travel at relativistic velocities, so that the passengers would experience time dilation. 1 year on the ship might have been like 100 years on earth. Most likely the ship did not really go "anywhere". Rather, it probably traveled around the solar system in a giant circular orbit, really fast. Thus, in a sense, the surviving humans were always "near-by" and not much time had passed for them.

As part of the Proxy project, the surviving humans created a bunch of proxies and compelled them to create a new race of humans. From the perspectives of the proxies, they thought they were recreating humanity, but their first creation was completely inhuman. The blue humanoid creatures that they found in the cave were the first creatures created by the proxies. The proxies thought they created those mutant humanoids of their own free will, but in reality the purpose of those mutant humanoids was to process and break down the harmful pollutants in the air. That is why they had to stay in the cave, because by the time of the series, most of the pollutants had already broken down, and they could only find enough to survive on in isolated places, like deep inside caves.

The proxies then made another attempt at creating more accurate copies of humans. This is Real Mayer's race. Real is not the same type of human we are. Her entire race is in fact infertile and incapable of child birth. In fact, they are related to the blue humanoid mutants. Some of the blue humanoid mutants were converted into "birthing chambers" and are thus the real parents of the "humans" in the domes. These birthing chambers required the pollutants in the air to function, and some of the "humans" in the dome required it as well (but to a much lesser degree). Thus the true purpose of the domes was to clean the air on earth.

The real humans in space merely thought of this plan as the best way to fix the environmental damage on earth. They did not actually want any of these creatures to survive when they returned. All the fake created humanoids would die off once all the pollutants were gone, but the proxies were made such that they would die when exposed to the sun. But the humans in space wanted a safeguard just in case things did not work out perfectly. They needed a sort of "clean up crew" to finish off the last few remaining stragglers on earth. Thus somehow they compelled the first proxy, Proxy 1, to try to clone himself. In so doing, he inadvertently created a clone that could survive the sun. This is Vincent Law, Ergo Proxy, the true emissary of death. Additionally, the humans in space created the cogito virus as part of the "clean up crew" in order to get rid of the remaining fake humans and domes.


What do you think?



Ahaseurus2000
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,546
Location: auckland

14 Dec 2008, 1:08 am

Quote:

I went through the discs only once (except the last, of which I watched "Deus Ex Machina" three times to better get what Proxy 1 was telling Vincent Law / Ergo Proxy), so I suspect I missed some truths about what was happening. Though there are short and subtle clues located throughout the series, and a kind of gameshow during one of the episodes gives more info.

I now think what I talked about to still be true but from the perspective of Real Mayer. She seems to conclude that the Proxies are like "imperfect gods" and that she and the other citizens are an expression of "the creator's anguish", that humanity nearly extinguished itself in an act that is both deliberate and destructive, that the remainder (understood to be themselves) has not earned the "privilege" of existence and does not deserve it, and they are all in some greater plot of self-destruction maliciously engineered by the creator.

What Mystyc explained is also true, but from an expanded perspective that recognizes the domes, citizens, autoraivs, etc. as cogs in a larger system that is meant to remove all traces of itself when it's purpose is complete. I believe the perspective I stated above (if correct) is a part of that system, probably as a "boundary" or "limiter" that prevents the constructed citizens from becoming more than the machines they were meant to only be, and competing with / replacing the true humans.

A major clue to this may be the constant references to a "reason for being". Although it may seem to be a part of the philosophy of the administration (at least) and city-dome, it can also suggest a deeper programming of the citizens (remember they are artificially gestated) and expand to include the whole dome / proxy / kogito matter as a programmed system. Real Mayer also asks near the end of the series "was I created explicitly for this purpose".

I like it when Real talks about the "rigours of existing" (did I get that right) as she escapes the crumbling dome, I think it means she has become a fully fledged entity, a true human in fake-human skin now making conscious choices and taking responsibility, instead of following her programming. That says something about the importance of taking real responsibility for our decisions instead of avoiding it or blaming others.

Do you think Vincent Law (Agent of Death) would bring death to the new colonists? or be like what I believe Real has become?


_________________
Life is Painful. Suffering is Optional. Keep your face to the Sun and never see your Shadow.


Vulcan
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 4 Dec 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 317
Location: Norway

14 Dec 2008, 6:58 am

just seen the first episode... will see the next later on tonight....so far i am not that impressed, but its too soon to tell really...



Ahaseurus2000
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,546
Location: auckland

18 Dec 2008, 11:45 pm

first episode is too soon. best save judgement until seen the whole series.


_________________
Life is Painful. Suffering is Optional. Keep your face to the Sun and never see your Shadow.


Veresae
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,023

27 Dec 2008, 5:08 pm

Never got to the end. Never bothered with the second disk, really. I liked the look of the main character because she looks like Amy Lee, but I wasn't impressed with what I saw really. It was pretty boring.



Simmian7
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,294
Location: Motown

31 Dec 2008, 7:23 pm

i finished it yesterday. good stuff. :wink:


_________________
*Christina*

It's like someone's calling out to me. Writing it all down...it's like I'm calling back to them.
(quote from August Rush; but used as a reference to my writing)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
My ASD AQ score is 42
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
#DemandCartoonDiversity


PLA
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,929
Location: Sweden

03 Jan 2009, 3:58 am

I liked the episodes that adressed the difficulty in telling what is real.

And "Who wants to be in Jeopardy?" was a good ego-booster.

But there was a big amount of pretentious name-dropping without merit, I think. On the other hand, I can enjoy loose references like those, so it doesn't bother me much. They are fun to point out, like license-plates.


_________________
I can make a statement true by placing it first in this signature.

"Everyone loves the dolphin. A bitter shark - emerging from it's cold depths - doesn't stand a chance." This is hyperbol.

"Run, Jump, Fall, Limp off, Try Harder."