Angry NT Wife Seeking Community

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I come here pretty pissed-off at my situation and am wondering if there is an existing subforum especially set up for spouses of aspies where they can vent. I don't want to post in the regular discussion areas because from what I can see, there's mostly aspies talking to each other there and, no offense, but I've already got enough interaction with AS as it is and need some support and comradery with NT's who live with adult aspies. I'm really at the end of my patience and not very good company these days, but hopefully, if I can just find others who are experiencing what I'm going through, I won't just go file for divorce.

Thank you,
Feyhera

You are welcome here, Feyhera - you will find that a majority of the members here are either on the spectrum or parents of children on the spectrum, from my experience here. There are threads in both the Women's forum and the In-Depth Life Discussion forum that may have something to offer to you off the top of my head. Please be aware that, as a support site, there is a sensitivity to attacks - it is encouraged to talk about the problem, not attack the person.


M.

There are mostly NTs in the parent's forum, if that's what you're looking for. Still, we might be able to offer some help if you explained what was wrong. NT-NT marriages usually fall apart because of miscommunication, and that's the primary difficulty for Aspies. I'm sure a few of us could identify which behaviors were unacceptable, which were simply bad communication, and so forth. Just don't expect us to take sides.

Welcome to the forums.

I do not think there is a separate area and I think that is a good idea. Basically, we are not homogeneous. A person with AS's ability to give you support and comradery is not going to necessarily be worse than an NTs. People with AS are as varied as NTs... I think most people can benefit from the opinions of both.

Thank you for your replies. Rest assured, I'm neither here to attack nor to seek cohorts in a campaign against any group or individual. I just don't have the patience anymore to hear that AS is an excuse for anyone to have free license to do anything they want to. I'm seriously fed up with the role I've been cast in as the perpetual psyche aide for an out of control, spoiled rotten spouse who uses AS to get his own way 100% of the time. If I have one more counselor or psychiatrist tell me that I should just be happy he's employed and not running around with his underwear on his head, I think I'll burst!! I've also been told that maybe I just have to accept that my job in the marriage is to be his emotional barometer, like an emotional seeing eye dog. Like I don't have a life of my own that I should just give my whole existence up to facilitating him staying out here in the NT world (he has spent a lot of time in psyche wards; he's bi-polar, too!), partaking of relationships and a career that he cannot maintain in my absence, AND it all is seen by his healthcare providers and our families as exclusively HIS crowning achievement! There's soooo much more. And I'm NOT ok.

Saspie, it's not that I see AS's as being unable to try to give support and comradery in a general way. But, if I were a grieving widow, wouldn't it be normal that I should seek the comfort and advice of other grieving spouses? I mean, not to be rude, but what do aspies know about how it feels to be an NT living with an aspie? Wouldn't you all feel pretty dubious if I, as an NT, tried to say that I know how it feels to be an aspie? And the irony is, Asperger's most famous 'symptom' is a lack of empathy! I'm here precisely because my AS spouse is completely clueless about how it feels to live with him. And if my husband, whose love for me seems to be one of his special focuses (so therefore, is very intense), can't relate to my hurt and anguish, how could aspies who don't know me and my situation, relate to me and be able offer the support I desperately need? I appreciate your sentiment, and thank you for trying to help, but I think your idea that I can get what I need from aspies is a bit unrealistic.

I think your probably right,unfortunately, it would be difficult for people with AS understand your emotional needs. Obviously your very hurt and torn apart. I think it helps to talk about things, but you need answers that will somehow make your husband more connected. I would suggest marriage counciling, maybe if somehow things could be explained to your husband, to be more aware of your needs, maybe then it will help. I wouldn't consider divorce until after trying every alternative. Sorry I am not much help, but I offer a listening ear, if you want to talk or vent.

Sure. When I have lost people any support has been good, however, not just that from those who have lost people themselves. To each their own though. Have you looked into support groups for spouses of those with AS? There are also websites around to complement this one but with more a focus on neurotypicals who need support. Here is one link: http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/support2.html but there are others that are more location specific.



I know a fair amount about this. My (NT) partner often explains what it is like to live with me so I know a lot about it.



Depends what you have said but I would not automatically be dubious about an NT saying they understand how it feels to be autistic. My NT siblings and partner have a very good understanding of what it is like to be me, for example.



It is a common misperception that people with AS lack empathy but not necessarily true. They may show it differently, however.



I got upset reading your post where you described your marriage problems. I have experienced hurt and anguish so I know what it is like to feel those emotions. It sounds like you are in a bad situation and that you are not getting support from counsellors or psychiatrists. It bothers me to hear about people with AS who use it as an excuse to get their way becuase it really should not be used as an excuse any more than NTs should use AS to put down those who think differently. Your husband needs to work with you to make the marriage beneficial for you both and stop using AS as an excuse not to do this. I think if counsellors are taking his side (unfair) is it possible to find someone who specialises in AS/ASDs as they should be more understanding of the issues that NT-AS relationships face? And a support group might also be helpful as you can meet others who are going through the same things. But, even talking to successful AS-NT couples might help as well as you can get both the AS and NTs sides of how they have contributed to making a successful relationship.

I have AS so feel free to ignore this advice if you think I cannot relate, just my thoughts.

Last edited by Saspie on 15 Jul 2009, 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pardon my sounding rude, but why'd you marry him? Did you not know somewhat what you'd be getting in to?
I have been privy to AS/NT domestic clashes before....not pretty...but really nobody's fault..the AS guy was not deliberately setting out to constantly enrage his NT partner...it is just what ended up happening....and then it made me wonder why the NT lady was so desperate to force things to work..and part of that seemed to entail forcing him to be a different person....it seemed pretty crazy....

They were able to be friends once they broke up...but it took a while...

Last edited by poopylungstuffing on 15 Jul 2009, 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hi, Feyhera. I'm also on another forum: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/As ... OtherHalf/ and it's made up of NT wives, fiances and girlfriends of AS partners.

They are all very honest, and most of them are struggling, and although I completely appreciate that people need a place to be real and vent, the non-stop complaining just wasn't very helpful for me. On the other hand, I've found this forum immeasurably more insightful when it comes to understanding what life is like for the AS individual.

Last edited by studentM on 15 Jul 2009, 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Your sweetness and kind words help immensely. Really. Yes, I'm very angry. Mostly tho, it feels like a constant state of outrage -- not just at him for the way he treats our emotional life, but at AS itself for stealing away what could've been such an amazing romance.



You see, my husband and I met for the first time when we were children, in Iran, before the Revolution that deposed the Shah. I'm an American, he's French and so my family was evacuated during the war, while my husband's family was allowed to stay. The Iranian revolutionaries liked the French because they sheltered the Ayatollah Khomeini for all those years he was in exile. Anyway, we lost touch and over the next 30 years found each other on and off -- about every 10 years or so -- only to discover one or both of us was in a relationship and unavailable. That all changed 4 years ago. I located him at a monastery in the Alps becoming a Catholic monk, having lost everything to his 'mental illnesses' -- career, family, home, etc. At the time, I was a full time psych aide working with -- believe it or not -- autistic adolescents! Yup. It's true. And also, at that time, he had no idea there was something else going on with him other than the bi-polar diagnosis, and his bi-polar was being successfully stabilized with meds and talk therapy. We were both unattached and so, immediately, the courting began in earnest. What we've figured out since then is that both of us longed for the other for all those 30 years. And also, we both were deeply imprinted by the other, having met during a time in our youths in which I was deciding what the perfect man was and he was forming his AS focuses. There's something soooo strong between us that even when I know in my heart that this relationship is completely toxic for me, I just feel like THIS IS MY HUSBAND, the only one, ever, forever, no question, it just is what it is and that's it! It's like I have absolutely no choice but to stick it out with him come hell or high water, and I feel very committed to the marriage. But it is hell. Really. It's really hell. I am so alone, misunderstood, stranded with him in a sea of irrational, deranged scenarios where his intense fear and misinterpretations of the world around us RULE! I am given the job of the 'resident NT' by his caregivers and yet, unlike my professional job as a psych aide, I have no authority to set the tone in our home. It's his way 100% because his autism's rigidity WON'T ALLOW for any variations. And because he is seemingly unaffected by the trauma I experience and the resulting backlash of my 'unpleasable' reactions to his outrageous behaviors, he has no consequences, and therefore never sees a need to change his ways. I'm close to violence over here! Seriously! I just want to break things and slam doors and throw his beloved electronics off a bridge!

On top of everything, I moved to Paris, France after we married, to accommodate his intense fear of living abroad in the US. His comfort zone is France and he doesn't trust American doctors, medicine and psychiatric facilities. Plus, he's an aeronautical engineer and since he'd abandoned his career by the time we reunited, he felt more secure re-establishing himself in his native country where he had contacts and such. I was 42 when I arrived and didn't speak a word of French and middle-aged brains tend to have a harder time learning languages (a studied fact btw) so I've also been dealing with language and cultural issues as well! Basically, I am a child here with no ability to do banking or pay bills and so on. I don't drive because the French, esp Parisians, drive like maniacs and the rules of the road are so different that I would crash within 5 minutes! AS is basically unheard of here and the medical community is just discovering it and only really addressing it in children -- as though it's something a person grows out of or something! Even when we did find a support group, it was ALL IN FRENCH! He doesn't feel any pain around his AS, so he couldn't care less about seeking support. I'm the one who needs the support. But there's nothing for me here!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !

Ok. I'll stop ranting now. I'm sure that's just way too much for people to get through. I'm used to that. I'm just too hard. My situation is just too icky, too complicated, too rife with complaining for most people to bother with. Hence, the isolation and desperation. If you read all of this... thank you so much. Thank you for not just clicking off and finding something easier to do. It means so much to me. It really does.

Thank you studentM, I will definitely check out the other forum as well!

Good point. And I'm sure that down the road a bit, I'll be here on these boards interacting with everybody and contributing, not just asking for help. For now, though, I really could use some interaction with others like myself in a 'place' where I don't have to be completely politically correct. I feel I'm just too raw to handle my side of things when it comes to hearing another aspie tell me how I need to be or view things. It's not a slam on anyone other than the aspie I live with. I really just don't have the listening for it at this point.



Thanks for that. I'll go check it out right away! I like Tony. I've read a few of his books and he seems to be pretty much the world's expert on AS.



I think it may be more accurate to say that you know a fair amount about how an aspie understands how an NT feels about living with an aspie. It's really not the same thing as being an NT who's lived it firsthand. I've never lost a significant person in my life yet (thank God!) but I've gone to funerals and I've helped others grieve. I would never ever say I know how they feel. It's just not ok. I know they are suffering and I know that's it's hard -- I can see it in their behavior and hear their words and process some kind of idea of what they're going through -- but that's not anything like the real deal.




Yes, I've heard that. But, when taken on the whole, what good is it if the empathy is never expressed or expressed in such socially odd ways that no-one has a clue it exists? Isn't the outcome the same as if there was no empathy at all? I mean, great, the aspie gets to feel the feeling of caring for someone outside of the themselves, but if that care never reaches the other person, the NT should just be happy for the aspie that they had a private empathetic moment? Seems sort of selfish to me.



Everything you said here is perfect advice. It really is what I/we need. Unfortunately, we live in France and resources in English are very sparce. We did go to England and saw Maxine Aston, who formally diagnosed my husband with AS and gave us a 2 hour counseling session. Thing is, she wasn't very positive. She actually told me that I have to learn to either "like it, lump it or leave it" which further reinforced my husband that there's nothing he can do to make our emotional life better and it really is all on me if we are to make it together. For all I know at this point, that just may be the case. I hope not.

And thank you for validating that AS should not be an excuse. I have a thing I say to my husband often: "Aspergers is an explanation for why you do the things you do, not an excuse." He seems to get that in an intellectual way (like most AS's, he's very intelligent) but, in practice, it sort of just doesn't exist for him. His disconnect seems so complete and deep that he's just plain clueless all the time. Probably not, but he seems that way. It's so frustrating to have to say the same thing all the time, like, "Please, please, please chew with your mouth closed and don't stuff it so full that food falls out." That's at every meal. I know it sounds trivial, but it's indicative of the sort of 6 year-old social level he's at. And thing is, real children LEARN! My 6 year-old real-life children stopped chewing with their mouths open after maybe a couple dozen times being told that it was rude! This man is 46 and still doesn't carry new information into the next moment!! It's like starting anew every single day, as if he can never decide to do something other than what he's always done!



No, I couldn't do that. It would be wrong. Your opinions and ideas are valuable, especially since you cared enough to reach out to a complete stranger and take a chance that you might have a piece of the puzzle for me. And you did/do. That's awesome and thanks!

You know, I think you know more about being an Aspie in an NT world than you think you do.
This last paragraph could have been written by me when I first joined WrongPlanet, and I am a late diagnosed Aspie (56 years old when I figured it out). I went though my whole life with out the help of a diagnosis, so no one attributed any of their frustration with me to a neurological issue I could not control nor hide. They just hated me.

Good luck with what ever you decide to do. Your life is your own, Aspie or NT.

(((BIG HUGS))) Thank you so much.

Just coming here and letting it out a little is helping. I appreciate every word everyone has taken the time and care to type. It does make a difference.

Not all aspies are born equal you know. the lack of empathy 'symptom' is very misunderstood too. For example I can tell you're pissed off, how's that for empathy? Just kidding, good luck finding what you're looking for, aspie spouses are a whole lot more rare than aspies (which are already pretty rare).