SleepyDragon
Veteran
Joined: 28 May 2007
Age: 69
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,829
Location: One f?tid lair or another.
05 Apr 2008, 6:42 am
I stopped smoking in 1975, having by that time acquired a 50-plus per day habit. I wouldn't presume to say that my way was easier or better than any other way. The point is: it worked for me in that time and place. I'm skeptical that there is a one-size-fits-all method which guarantees success for everyone.
Couldn't agree more, ouinon.
05 Apr 2008, 8:02 am
Which is why it's so vital not to scare people with myths about how chemically addictive it is. It just makes it harder for people.
Dramatic talk about "the difficulties", the agonies, the "terrible withdrawal", is the opposite of helpful. It increases fear. It makes people feel even more helpless, powerless, and like they will need masses of crutches to do it.
I get so angry at people making it sound hard because of the chemical addiction involved. The chemical addiction is of little importance compared to the psychological dependency.
I never paid for anything ( drug or book or treatment or counselling) to help me to stop smoking. Nor am I recommending that anyone else do so, far from it. I just found it very interesting that a scheme which has helped thousands stop smoking works on exactly the same principles that I had worked out myself.
And that his method spread by word of mouth, and for free, for a couple of years because of its success, before anyone began charging for it.
PS: Just because something makes a lot of money doesn't necessarily mean that the original idea/analysis/approach is wrong, or a scam.
05 Apr 2008, 8:21 am
Well, it is a conclusion based on my own independent experience ,( which i had thought about a lot in trying to understand the phenomenon of smoking, and addiction in general) , so it was very interesting to find that it is almost identical to the analysis by Allen Carr, in his internationally acclaimed method to stop smoking, as described by Wiki, at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Carr
So, we should take more notice of Allen Carr, an unqualified person who made a £120 million fortune out of selling books and counselling on giving up, before dying of lung cancer, possibly as a result of secondary smoking (20 years of allowing clients to smoke during his counselling sessions), than of someone who has any qualifications or scientific support?
I stopped smoking, 2 1/2 years ago, by... stopping. I know that method doesn't work for most people. I'm still a smoker - just not smoking at the moment. My 45 years of smoking have now been interrupted by this 2.5 year gap, another 1.5 year gap, a shorter months-long gap and a few odd days. When last I was smoking, I was in the 40-45 a day bracket. Next time I start, I will be in the 45-50 bracket, I expect, judging by past experience.
05 Apr 2008, 8:27 am
PS: Just because something makes a lot of money doesn't necessarily mean that the original idea/analysis/approach is wrong, or a scam.
PS. Is there any real, independent, non-anecdotal data on Alan Carr's method?
PPS. I was going to look at the website, but I never bother with websites that require Flash.
sartresue
Veteran
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 69
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism
05 Apr 2008, 9:15 am
I think part of my problem is cognitive as I am very afraid of going "insane". All my energy goes into jus keeping on funtional level so I can go to work and pay my rent and not end up homeless....maybe some RET therepy would help,now that I know I'm aspie. I am considering it.I really,realy want to quit,it effects my life in so many negative ways. I think I am coming close to "trying again",it seems to cycle with me.
Tahnk you all for your advice and information,I really appriciate it.
Hello krex,
I work as a Pulmonary Rehabilitation Coordinator. One of my roles is smoking cessation.
Quitting cold turkey is incredibly difficult and has 3 - 5% success rate.
To quit smoking you need to address the physiological addition to nicotine + psychological addiction.
There are medications out there to help with smoking cessation. One drug that is new to Australia (been around in the USA longer) is Varenicline.
An older smoking cessation drug is Zyban that started off life as an anti-depressant. It didn't work very well as an anti-depressant but in approximately 1/3 of patients was a 'magic fairy dust' .... they lost urge to smoke and quit. In another 1/3 of patients it reduces cravings for cigarettes.
Chuck, can you talk more about Varinicline and Zyban. I am by no means an expert in pharmacology!
If medications are not the way to go, I strongly recommend Nicotine Replacement Therapy.
Nicotine is more addictive than heroin! It is superbly addictive because .... within 10 seconds of inhaling you get your 'hit' to your brain. Within 40 minutes your nicotine blood levels have dropped and you get all sorts of awful withdrawls.
To turn off the nicotine receptors in the brain you need to keep your nicotine blood levels stable for a minimum of 7 weeks. This involves the use of nicotine patches, gum, lozenges.
You can smoke and use patches. You can use patches and gum and lozenges.
Renee Bittoun is our Australian guru of smoking cessation. At any conference that she speaks at there is a revered silence when she first gets on stage. (She also speaks 6 languges fluently .... hmmm she's intelligent, an expert in her field ..... is she Aspie?
Renee Bittoun is editor of 'The Journal of Smoking Cessation'.
Many smokers have not succeeded in quitting using a single nicotine replacement mode. An algorithm was developed for clinicians to enhance success rates when recommending nicotine
replacement therapy (NRT) to smoking patients. The algorithm is based on clinical experience with
chronic smokers with respiratory illnesses attending one-on-one smokers clinics in the Central Sydney Area Health Service. Based on transdermal nicotine therapy (patch) other forms of NRT are added if required for ‘breakout’ smoking for 2 weeks. Outcomes have shown 60% confirmed continuous abstinence at 3 months. Smokers can be safely and successfully treated symptomatically for nicotine withdrawal relief using combination NRT aggressively.
http://www.australianacademicpress.com.au/Publications/Journals/smoke_cessation/JSC_Bittoun.pdf
Renee is in the process of double-blind trials.
I hope this information is a useful beginning.
Helen
No smoke, no mirrors topic
Dear Helen:
I suppose I am one of the 3%-5% of people who were able to quit cold turkey. I have a very strong personality (as some of you may have noticed) and I was determined to quit. For six weeks I had major meltdowns during withdrawal. There were no patches then, no Zyban. Just nicotine gum. I tried it and I felt dizzy. And it was very expensive. So this is why I quit cold turkey. After 6 weeks i I felt great. No more huffing and puffing as I ran up the stairs. And iIdid not gain more than 2.5 kilos, which I lost after being able to do more physical activity. I chewed gum, drank water, coffee, tea. I avoided anyone who smoked (which was easy, since I did not socialize anyway). I will be having a major celebration when reach the thirty year mark (I have never celebrated it before). And the money I saved, or at least did not spend! (I have never used alcohol either. Ever.)
But all in all, it is a hard thing to do. Even with my strong personality!
05 Apr 2008, 10:38 am
05 Apr 2008, 11:45 am
However I found one small study by Jonathan Foulds at :
http://www.healthline.com/blogs/smoking ... uit-2.html
which found a 26-47% cessation rate at one month, and 25-26% cessation rate at 8 months.
These are lower than the figure of 53% quoted by Allen Carr in an interview with ASH, based on two small independent peer reviewed studies, but which apparently are unreliable for some reason.
However, as a health professional, one of those to whom Foulds sent his survey, says, this is nevertheless much better than the 15% cessation rate at 6 months using "best practice services" in the UK, and that coverage, publicity, and provision for drug-free cessation-methods suffer from the classic medical research bias; there's no money in swift behavioural therapies.
05 Apr 2008, 12:34 pm
I quit a 2 pack a day (3 when I was married ) 26 year old habit by using the "Chantix" Krex. It was painless and as I abhor pain of any kind it worked out perfectly for me.
One of the Drs. I was waiting on the day I decided to "give it a go" asked me if I'd heard of it, I said "No, whats it do?" (I don't like to take prescriptions of ANY kind) He explained to me how it goes in to the nicotine receptor sites in the brain and fills them with synthetic nicotine. (Nicotine is EXTREAMLY chemically addictive period) That way your body still THINKS its getting nicotine, while its actually becoming un-addicted. Your supposed to take it 3 months, I took it about a month and a half and the side effect of "vivid dreams" was EXCELLENT
Your supposed to smoke for the first week on it but by the 4th day smoking was completely unsatisfying and I only smoked 3 cigs that 4th day. It does require a little will-power to make yourself not smoke just because "its a hard habit to break" but your never "jonesing for a smoke" and its painless. I'm saving over $300.00 a month and I FEEL great, I haven't had a smoke in over a year and a half I think, and while they still smell good(I sniff my customers and tell them they smell like ambrosia, they love hearing someone likes the smell of smoke) They all went thru the process with mer and cheered me on and I feel Dr. Clark saved my life.
Two other people at work ghave quit using it also, and I heard it has something like a 40-50 % sucess rate.
I can get you a script for it for free up here, and its only $100.00 a month at Costco (for the first month, the second month was only $10.00)and I bet your spending that on cigarettes right now? If you want to give it a go let me know.
I quit cold turkey once for 2 years and the first 3 weeks of that were living hell, the patch and the gum still keep you addicted to nicotine, just in a different form. This truly was PAINLESS.
05 Apr 2008, 12:57 pm
One year cessation rate of the Chantix group treatments : 22.1% and for Zyban: 16.4%. Article at:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pulmonary/S ... PD/tb/3276
05 Apr 2008, 1:28 pm
oh, my bad, I never check anything
Regardless, it's so much better than the "Cold Turkey Sucess Rate" As for "Chemical Satisfaction"
Nicotine acts on receptors normally used by one of the main neurotransmitters in the brain and nervous system (acetylcholine). Neurotransmitters are the "chemical messengers" released by nerve cells to communicate with other cells by altering their electrical activity.
The body responds to nicotine at these receptors as if it was the natural transmitter (acetylcholine) and the activity and physiological functions of many brain systems are altered.
With repeated nicotine dosage the body adapts to what it regards as extra acetylcholine in an attempt to restore normal function. One way it does this is to grow more acetylcholine receptors.
Thus nicotine induces structural as well as functional changes in the brain of smokers. When nicotine is suddenly withdrawn, physiological functions in the brain and other parts of the body are disturbed. This is known as withdrawal syndrome. It takes time for the body to readjust to functioning normally without nicotine.
05 Apr 2008, 1:38 pm
http://www.healthline.com/blogs/smoking ... uit-2.html
which found a 26-47% cessation rate at one month, and 25-26% cessation rate at 8 months.
With reference to Chantix there are serious doubts about its inoccuousness. See the 93 page thread on "Muscle and joint pains after taking Chantix" at :
http://forums.wrongdiagnosis.com/showthread.php?t=2301 ... ( it just linked!
)
a mass of worried people with a lot of side effects. And the recommendation not to take it longer than 10 days, if that, just to get over the worst. Apparently not only does Chantix bind to nicotine receptors but also to H2C3 ( ? ) receptors which when malfunction are already known to be involved in a "muscle joints and pain" disease. ( myofibril, fibrilmylagia ? can't remember)
05 Apr 2008, 2:07 pm
Short break.
We want the finest wines available to humanity. We want them here and we want them now.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094336/quotes
05 Apr 2008, 2:29 pm
05 Apr 2008, 2:31 pm
But all in all, it is a hard thing to do. Even with my strong personality!
But all in all, it is a trivial thing to do. Even with my strange personality!
Seriously... I think this is a subject that is not straightforward.
I cannot understand why people think there is only one way to "stop" smoking.
There are a whole host of reasons why, once people start smoking, it is difficult to get out of the habit/addiction.
Corresponding to those reason why they continue smoking, there are an even larger number of ways to address the problem.
By all means suggest alternatives. Do NOT reject them.
I object to people trying to narrow down the approaches.
05 Apr 2008, 3:32 pm
05 Apr 2008, 7:07 pm
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