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Sadly, it's the truth. I couldn't figure out what was "wrong" with me as a kid... why people sniffed me out as a welcome mat, and why some girls had all the fun, why I was treated as "second class" why I was ignored, and all the bad things that happen to Aspies.

It's so difficult for Aspies to connect. We wait around for NT's to come into our lives and make the conversation that sparks our interest, and engage our desire to make conversation.

But really... its the NT's who haven't anything interesting to say. Seriously, think about how enlightening conversation with one is. Discussing the weather, butterbeans and biscuits at the local picnic... or maybe that ball game, now that really ...
It takes a lot of work and effort to make stimulating conversation. Even for NT's. But if they didn't do that, I think most of them would be good for nothing -- considering the level of intelligence a lot of them exhibit.
Seriously, ask them about the fossil record, or any complex mathematical formula, or perhaps some basic information about our solar system, world politics, or ask them where "Austria" is located and see if they don't get it mixed up with the African continent or Australia.

That's... why I can't stand an NT. One of my favorite NT's use to smoke cigarettes, and to make the "big splash impression" she'd take cheap-o bargain brand cigs, and stick them into an empty "Marlboro" box ... to make the false impression of smoking the expensive stuff.

Always lies and false impressions...

I watched her, and I observed the guys chasing her. She told me, "The reason men don't like you is because you're confrontational. NEVER correct a man, even if he's wrong. You let him think he's right...it boosts his ego."

I thought to myself, "The heck with that. I'm not giving out my respect to anyone unless they EARNED it." And the losers continued in and out of her life... finally the man she was soooo in love with, the marriage she wanted so badly, lasted all of five years.

'cos it wasn't built on truth to begin with, you see?

That was her game...

I watched her ... I memorized her facial expressions, that sparkle in her eye, the charming way she carried herself, everything from what she'd say to the clothes she wore. I decided I'd try an experiment. I dyed my hair like her color, I borrowed some of her clothing, I wore her shoes... the whole 9 yards... mimmicking her. A church picnic was planned and I went to it. All the time, I was her... I talked like her, I carried myself like her, I WAS HER. As expected, the cutest guy in the whole church group, lost interest in his girlfriend, and was all around me, wanting to get to know me... when I left that day, he came out to our van ... standing there just as nervous as any Aspie, like he wanted to say something, but speechless.

I came... I saw... I did...

Aspies tend to trivialize things I think. Over-analyze people. For instance, how complex is dating ... really?? I was in a grocery store listening to my friend (mentioned above) talking to a cashier, and to hear her tell it, how difficult it is ... looks, money... nah, base instincts, she told my friend, "He's a man isn't he?"

People really are not as complex as they may seem, but Aspies (at least I do) have to nit-pick and analyse everything into a fine science.... when, don't you know yourself, already, NT's are quite simple-minded. The nervousness, the shyness, the awkwardness is what makes Aspies undesirable. It's about self-confidence and self-esteem, primarily I think. Overcoming a type of "stage fright"... the stage that is life, and perpetually doing improv.

ON DATING
"...erotic feelings prompted activity in older parts of the brain, including the region known as the limbic system, and the neocortex, which allows people to be aware of their feelings, Beauregard says. The study, in effect, examined how the mind suppresses feelings on the borderline between voluntary and involuntary, says Dr. Thomas Lewis, professor of psychiatry at the University of California at San Francisco. Part of the challenge is that "no one has any idea how free will exists [in the brain]," he says. It's not surprising that the prefrontal cortex becomes active when men try to hold in their sexual arousal, Lewis says. That area appears to be in charge of inhibition, and people who suffer from injuries to that region have problems suppressing inappropriate thoughts and emotions. "They pretty much act on the spur of the moment. They say and do things that are inappropriate," Lewis says. If that sounds a bit like a teen-age boy, there's a reason. The prefrontal cortex develops in adolescence and that could explain why adults usually control themselves better than children, Beauregard says. In other words, as your brain grows, so does your ability to keep your feelings to yourself."
http://preventdisease.com/news/articles ... urge.shtml

But the reptile brain in every human is alive and well. And most NT's I've acquainted seem to use it more, than the intellectual centers of their brain. It doesn't take a lot of brain power to light up a joint... no more than say, the *grunt grunt* involved in a one night stand. Dating sites are crawling with NT's.

The NT's need to compete with their neighbors, jewelry, nice clothes, the boat... all of it a big show... an act.. take a look at nature, and observe:



Mr. Liizard's throat fans are about the same color as Mr. Jones' sports car which he uses to impress Chicks.

NT's are NOT that difficult to figure out.

It takes sooooo much work and effort, but a simple *grunt* with loads of confidence in their direction, is probably enough to make most NT's feel welcomed into the troop (a family of monkeys).

I saw a documentary about Bill Clinton once, and those who personally knew him. He had NT's down to a fine science. He'd walk into a room, shake their hand, and probe them with questions that appealed to their interests... he had a knack of making them feel important, interesting, as if their interests were his own! He could get people to eat out of his hand, by simply showing a little interest in them.

That's the prob with us Aspies. We're too lazy, and truthfully (considering the lamer lifestyles and intellectual interests/level of most NT's)... just don't care to know.

Homer Simpson : Garden Variety NT

I UNDERESTIMATED.
...ask them where "Austria" is located and see if they don't get it mixed up with the African continent or Australia.
TRY INABILITY TO LOCATE THEIR OWN HOMELAND ON A MAP.

Miss Teen USA 2007, Ms. Teen South Carolina - Lauren Katlin answers the question why so many Americans cannot locate America on a world map.
(But I'm sure she's the Poster Girl for NT... social, smiling, glitter in her eye, flirtateous and not an introverted bone in her body...)
This is her answer:
"I personally believe that US americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don't have maps and I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and the Iraq everywhere like such as and I believe that they should our education over here and the US should help the US and should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the asian countries so we are able to build up our future."
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww[/youtube]

It takes sooooo much work and effort, but a simple *grunt* with loads of confidence in their direction, is probably enough to make most NT's feel welcomed. That's the prob with us Aspies. We're too lazy, and truthfully (considering the lamer lifestyles and intellectual interests/level of most NT's)... just don't care to know.

Homer Simpson : Garden Variety NT

I see all of that too. I know it. I knew it at 16 and at 48 I could write enough paperbacks to fill a bookshelf the length of my living room wall of boring short stories, all of them the same formula. Hell, I could create the longest running tv series out of all the same s**t different day stories...oh wait that's been done :/

But, here's the thing - I still have to exist in this freaken world and get along and work and socialize their way to a degree, even if I don't get a fulfilling relationship. Ya know?

aspieforty - that youtube vid - well let me just say I normally can't watch morons like that. I just can't dude. It's painful enough dealing with 'em on a daily basis, but to watch more of it..just shoot me now But, I did watch it out of courtesy for you sharing it. Thanks. Thanks a lot for that ::sarcasm;;;

I had a boss a few years ago (there's another book I could write - The Complete Idiot And Maniac Bosses from Hell I Have Endured) who whenever she had special events hosted for clients would buy the cheap boxed white wine. You know the kind that come in bulk boxes of 4 litres with a kool-aid type of spout. Then she would pour that wine into expensive wine bottles that she had recycled and tell me not to say anything. In her words, "They'll never know the difference." Funny thing is she was right. Everyone raved about how good the wine was.

What a farce.

Think about how many men you've seen LIE to women, for the purpose of fulfilling their base instincts (driven entirely on the primitive regions of the brain)... but research will focus on how the prefrontal cortex is developed or underdeveloped, in Aspies?!?

Aspies actually want a meaningful relationship.. NT's are naturals at making *grunt grunt* and consider it bonding. No wonder you "...can't get no satisfaction..."

Here is what all Aspies are dealing with in NT society. All that (operating on base instincts) just doesn't compute in the intellectual / logical reasoning center of the brain. And, it really is just this simple... Aspies over-analyse and trivialize what can not be explained with intellect. These are base instincts... driven from the lizard brain... just watch as ignorant reptiles fight over territory, display thier throat fans for mating rites... typical NT behavior.

Reptilian Brain And The Triune Brain Model
Some of the traits associated with the reptilian brain include: aggression, dominance, seeking a mate, sex, rigidity, obsessiveness, compulsiveness, ...
- eruptingmind.com/reptilian-brain-triune-model/

If you had trouble with bullying in High School, well, here's the culprit... most of the stereotypical "jocks" have the intellect of a lizard. Ever notice they're not so tough when they're by themself and not "displaying" their prowess before a crowd?

"Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level and then beat you with experience."
"Do not attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to stupidity."
"The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along."


We can be described, to use a model proposed by the neuroanatomist Paul MacLean, as having a three-part brain, or triune brain, consisting of a reptilian brainstem core, an old mammalian brain called the limbic system, and the neocortex. 3 Figure 3-3 shows MacLean's symbolic representation of the model, and Figure 3-6 (see next section) indicates how the inner limbic portions of the cortex are overlaid by the external neocortex. The limbic system appeared between 200 and 300 million years ago and was initially dominated by smell input. Corresponding structures are found in reptiles and birds. One component of the limbic system, the hippocampus, plays a key role in storing memories. Another, the amygdala, mediates emotional reactions relevant to survival.
http://www.dericbownds.net/bom99/Ch03/Ch03.html

Here's an excellent video on this primitive intimidating "alpha male" behavior. As an Aspie, I found this information, fascinating

Psychology of handling an "Alpha Male" type SFS Blog 28/6/08
Strictly speaking, from a scientific or biological viewpoint this isnt actually "Alpha Male" behaviour at all. The term Alpha Male is actually a bit of a misnomer in modern parlance. It is in fact "Beta Male" or perhaps "Wannabe Alpha Male" Behaviour that is the problem. Driven by insecurity and a desperate need to define themselves through confilct and primitive domination these types are riddled with insecurity precisely because they are NOT Alpha Males! In packs of monkeys for example, the Alpha is the boss and he may dish out a few slaps when his suboridantes get frisky but he doesnt need to express his fraudulent dominance with every move and gesture. He simply IS the boss.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95CLAScbpYg[/youtube]

All the while probably chuckling to herself at their lack of experience in the area of wine-tasting. Even she knows what dumb*&# and frauds NT's are.

I *understand* why they do it, but will never *relate* to why they do it. It's pointless.

That was an informative video AspieForty. One area of research I've been interested in is this kind of body language. I know I have trivialized how much it operates in the world.

As for not getting any satisfaction because of the differences in what is perceived as bonding - hrmph well yeah, right. That's an important part of it. But, it's more than that. I find there is such a chasm. My experience has felt like I exist on a whole other planes of experience and expectations and perception. Meh...I'm not very optimistic at the moment.

The strange thing here is, if I consciously choose to imitate NT behaviors... it is so easy. Dress up nicely in pantyhose, dress, high heeled shoes, throw on a nice business jacket, classy sunglasses... every hair in place, and plaster on a huge Barbie Doll smile across my face (never mind my trivializing over lines / flaws in my complexion -- if I pretend they don't exist, they won't exist in the eye of my beholders), and *smile* for goodness sake SMILE DAMMIT... and everything that comes out of my mouth, let it be small thoughts, but positive. Size them up... say what they *want to hear* -- boost their ego. A sparkle in my eye... just an all around Miss Congeniality. The world can be blowing up around me, and yet, there will be a smile plastered on my face at all times -- erect posture (like an alpha female who is in charge of her destiny), look them straight in the eye, and not a care in the world.... and people will *love* and *adore* me. You don't have to have anything substantial to say just as long as you say it with a smile and a glimmer in your eye. The smaller the thought, the better... as it presents less of a strain to their brain.

... and at the end of the day, after all that effort, I ask myself "What was the purpose?" Their heads are no less empty than the day before... and I have achieved "bonding" ...

Perhaps Mr. Gorilla can explain better than I, what the "purpose" of the NT is. (Socialization skills, I mean).


*grunt* *grunt* *grunt*



Alpha males and females... Beta males and females (the wannabe alphas)... and the lowly Omega (on whom the pack alleves its aggression).

As an Aspie, I have ZERO desire to fit within this silly "pecking order," this hierarchy primates and mammals create in their structure of what they call "civilized society". I don't want to dominate anyone, and I refuse to be dominated.

I hear you about not wanting to fit in with a pecking order hierarchical system. But, wasn't the whole point of that body language video that if we don't learn the tricks of fitting in we WILL be dominated?

I mean the only way you can exclude yourself entirely from the ape game of one upmanship is to become a hermit.

Exactly. You got it right on da money.

Hello crocus, welcome, enjoy your stay on the Wrong Planet!

I can relate to this. It's the story of my life. I never figured it out that it was a game and once I did I didn't want to play. I don't have the psychic energy for it. I've always just waited for someone to be real with me. It's happened a few times, when I've been been on the periphery of a group and made a connection with one of the occupants. The person could be themselves around me and would even state their relief at being able to do so.

Supposedly, being "Evolved" primates, we have human... intelligence and can rise above and restrain our carnal nature, or so it would seem. But as Gene Kelly once noted, "Darwin was wrong. Man is still an Ape."

My daughter (being severely Aspergers), and at school or other environments she is not familiar with, notably school -- she walks down the hallway hanging her head, and refuses to make eye contact. This body language is clearly sending out signals to the primitive regions of the brains (communicated without spoken language but on the level of *grunts* and *growls*), which translates into "I AM THE OMEGA... KICK ME WHEN I'M DOWN"... and bullies do indeed sniff her out, and exhibit their predatorial behaviors of dominance before the rest of the pack or troop. It is a base, vulgar, vile... level of ignorance... the lizard brain.. the primitive regions of the brain are alive and well. Such individuals do NOT exercise their higher reasoning centers at all, explaining why they have nothing to say of substance, and "socialization skills," consist of bullying (dominance within the pecking order), etc.

...and not to underestimate the role of the "alpha female" either, which can be as dominant, annoying, manipulative, controlling pest as the alpha males... i.e., "only the alpha female is allowed to mate" (or so it is among wolves).

Aspergers not making eye contact...

Why dosn't my dog ever look me in the eye? they don't like confrontation. monkeys are the same they will look at you ..
The king or leader of the pack is called the Alpha, and is usually male but not always so. Any other dog that makes eye contact with the Alpha is challenging ...
- ukqna com/pets/1608-1-pets-ukqna.html

Male Body Language
So, let us first get to know the alpha male body language and behavioral characteristics. ... He will never be the one to break eye contact first. ... when they are interested and second at the time of confrontation. ...
- buzzle com/articles/male-body-language.html

The Importance Of Eye Contact
it shows her that you're a confident alpha male type of person, ... So, when a woman makes eye contact with a man it only signals ...
- ezilon com › Home › Self Improvement

*goes about drumming fists on chest*

A Player's Manual: What it means to be an "Alpha Male"
The Alpha Male is not to afraid make strong eye contact with people including people he doesn't know. This further demonstrates his strength and dominance. ...
hubpages com/hub/Attraction-in-Action

So I heard said, that if you're in a jungle and happen upon a troop of Gorillas and run on the alpha male... bow your head, and avoid eye contact at all cost. The Alpha Male will kill you.

I've tried to sort it out on my lonesome, worked on my posture over the years... standing erect... shoulders back, chin up... practiced making eye contact with people... and overall posture that tells people, "I'm confident, and won't be pushed around".

It is a strain on the psyche. Especially if you're a woman and dress nicely, carrying your posture well... that's when the whistling and embarrassing comments from strange men out in public, will follow. I had strange men walk up to me in the past, asking "Are you married?"
I decided perhaps I should dress down a little... simpler clothing that attracted far less attention. Whether or not we like it, at some level or another, we're in this "game" together, and our body language is speaking volumes about us... and that's all some seem to care about, "Is this person a soft touch and somebody I can bully and dominate?"

Welcome to WP

It does feel / seem to be a game, but honestly, I don't believe most NT's are even aware of why they do, what they do. They're very much connected and act upon their primitive instincts. The primitive regions of the brain are what they function on... in us, the Aspies, there is some sort of "disconnect" going on -- we feel it, the inability to connect is frustrating -- then the A.S. diagnosis comes from somebody and we read the symptoms and the pieces of the puzzle to our whole lives begin to fall in place and everything makes sense. We don't relate to these primitive "social games" people play.

I suppose the way I can deal with this "problem" in the future, is realization that NT's need communication with the non-verbal primitive regions of their brain as much, if not moreso, than the more evolved / intellectual regions. They only understand body language. So I've got to speak their language :

** Aspie mustering posture, and stands erect... looks straight into the eye of Neurotypical beta without flinching, or expression, without verbalizing as much as one word, locking eye contact, and in my eyes they can feel it loud and clear, "I don't want a confrontation with you... but if you force me into it... I'm going to fight, and with the same primitive physical aggression you NT's love so much.. and I'm going to fight to win." -- If looks could kill. Not a word spoken.

/ NT back off.**

Then, a disarming smile.

Its about confidence and shedding fears and inhibitions... and grasping that we're dealing with a wee, tiny brain mass -- spanning back somewhere around 300 million years when the first reptiles slithered in the waters... a brain that cannot speak, or express itself beyond base animal instincts. In other words, it cannot be reasoned with, except through the brute force of animal politics.



After you command their respect.... anything is possible.

Thanks for the welcome, Scientist and Solsikke