Noob and Self-diagnosis

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reread your second-last post. notice how it starts out that I dont seem rude, and then I am extremely rude.

If I'm wrong, then tell me: where did you say I was MEDIUM rude?

I told you because I am worried that your family is perpetuating bpd for generations. I have bpd partially because my mother had it. the same is POSSIBLE for your case. Your anger here and now and your mother's could very well stem from the same phenomena.

I don't know any of this, but speculation has its place.


My parents really weren't bothered by C's, it was just the F's, and I was capable, except for the depression. I became much more of a perfectionist after I saw the results of an angry letter I wrote to some performers who did a medium ok job on a piece i wrote. I saw it as their having been absolutely horrible, this exact same borderline rage. And now I regret it, very much. This happens over and over, and eventually I decided to cut myself off from society because I was hurting people.


And what, you really think I'm completely sane now? That's unlikely at best. lol...

You were in error with the presumption that your mother had _nothing in common with mine.
Ah... at 40+ years old in comparison to your 19 years of age, in combination with the advantage of my being female and understanding how the mind of a woman works, vs. your presuming, male? It would pay to just read and learn.

There's no borderline personality disorders here. Sorry. My record is clear. In all the years (a full decade) of counselors which I was receiving pointless counseling for a "mysterious, evasive, socialization problem" -- and my oldest daughter too... bouncing in and out of counseling, but no definitive diagnosis... more errors than any effective counseling... we got burned out on the failures of "mental health". If anything they did our family more harm than good... until the day the school began observing and following my SON ... A MALE... BOYS ARE FAR MORE LIKELY TO BE DIAGNOSED WITH ASPERGERS THAN GIRLS... females are practically ignored in the equation... when my son was being looked at for Aspergers Syndrome, all the pieces of the puzzle began falling into place.

The diagnoses came through ... bang bang bang... all three children are Autistic.. and in all the years I counseled, not once was "borderline personality disorder" even suggested. Although those counselors acquainted with my mother, wondered...
When I questioned once on my mother's aching need to make me feel so crappy... and I asked "WHY does she do that to me?"
The therapist replied, "Because you allow her to."

Here's where your presumptions went awry:



Depression in adolescents teens
Symptoms of Depression; Symptoms of a Manic Episode; Talk to Someone About ... Having depression doesn't mean that a person is weak, or a failure, ... drugs, or sex; trouble with school or bad grades; problems with family or friends. ...
www.psychologyinfo.com/depression/teens.htm

[quote][quote]Pitfalls of Perfectionism | Psychology Today
One reason: Pressure on children to achieve is rampant, because parents now seek much of their ... in their children's lives, they demand perfection from them in school. ... relentless frustration and doomed to anxiety and depression. ...
www.psychologytoday.com/node/41205

It doesn't apply here. My two Asperger children are happy... the only one with "emotional problems" is my "PDD-NOS with Asperger like behavior". And guess who she spends lots and lots of time around.. my mother. My mother is the poster-girl for NT's... she stays on the go, with deeply integrated in social connections. NOTHING gets past her. She calls me up on the phone weeks ago, in tears, begging me to go to a social function at church... I felt like saying, "Stuff it ma" but she was sooooo sincere, and soooooo convincing... and made me feel like crap, and guess what I did like her SUCKER. I agreed to go. I did not want to, but I went.

Parents can wield amazing influence over the behaviors, choices and even goals and aspirations of their children, even depriving their children the right to be a self-expressive individual. You've already said you are afraid to oppose your father.

That's not mentally healthy. You won't know who you really are, until you break the leash your parents have around your neck, and accept that you're an adult and become a man who doesn't allow your Dad and Mom to control your thinking.

You really must cut some strings, and spread your wings, and in a few years... after some self-discovery, you'll be a new, happier (better rounded) mentally-healthier, person (I think).

lol....you evaded that question nicely:

"If I'm wrong, then tell me: where did you say I was MEDIUM rude?"

bpd=borderline personality disorder

Currently, I believe it is better to continue psychiatric care than to sever my relationship with my parents.

And..my mother thought I was a perfect, healthy happy child too...still does, really...that's why my depression was unnoticed and I was afraid to talk to my mother...whenever I expressed negativity, she explodes with anger JUST LIKE YOU.

You didn't read very well.

You accused me of having a "borderline personality disorder" which was extremely insulting because you were wrong. The very reason you stated about your mother feeling abandoned that you presumed I was superimposing my mother on your own... I answered that quite poignantly.

My Mom's mother died, when she was 13 years of age, just like your mother. My grandmother died from Ovarian Cancer. My mother grew up fast, and had to learn the skills to survive at a very young age. She's nobody's fool. She's very in control of her environment. She boasted once that she could make herself cry, when she's not even sad.

You were wrong. My suspicions, built on 40 years of life, panned out to be what I suspected and sensed... being intuitive is not a "mental condition".



bpd=borderline personality disorder[/quote]

It is very rude to suggest somebody has that. Straight up Aspergers and some traumatic stress disorder are the only definitive diagnosis ever ascribed to me. They seemed to know there was some "evasive" issue in the mix, but even when Aspergers was suggested, they didn't know enough about it to discuss it, and dismissed... nobody took the matter seriously, until my son was (the first in the family) diagnosed with Aspergers.



You need to be aware of how much influence your parents yield over your personality, character, decision-making... your life... your individuality... your moods.

How much of it is their control... and how much of it is really "you".

You don't want to wake up at age 30 or 40 asking yourself, "Who am I?"
You think you have confusion gripping your mind at your age, now, just wait until you're middle aged and discover you can't exist independently, without consent and approval from your parents.

It's not a mentally healthy relationship you've described, at all.

So you project a common factor between the two?

Like mother, like daughter. Another similarity between your mother and my mother. But my mother does not suffer from any disorder like bpd, she's just one shrewd woman who knows how to play the game, and its her way.... or the highway. I grew up, walking on pins and needles, because anyone who crossed her wrong or did anything to rock the boat, in the control she wielded.... paid dearly.

I'm not angry.. just a little annoyed earlier.

Yes, every time I try to speak to my mother she explodes with anger. She is very accustomed to having it HER WAY... and if she doesn't there's hell to pay.
What she doesn't like, is my Aspergers nature of logic, truth, facts.. weeding through the lies, fallacies, absurdities and all the other NT rubbish that she tries to spoon-feed me. When I was your age, she'd have me melting down in emotional rubble, my mind doing "Fruit de loops" to make her happy -- but her button-pushing doesn't work so good, anymore. I grew up. That scares the heck out of her. These days its more like, "Stuff it ma".
Yes, she explodes with anger at times.. but its kept behind closed doors. It would never do to behave like that in public ... irrational around strangers in the community... it might damage her pristine reputation as an upstanding, strict, devout Christian as she is (which you also described of both your parents).

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I hate semantics!! !! I didn't mean that question the same way you heard it, and it's an arguable point anyways, so....I'm sorry I came across as rude.

I don't think bpd is any more insulting than a broken arm, really.

Regardless of our situations, is it possible that AS and bpd could mask each other?

Aspergers people process comments very literally.
When you said BPD... I took it very literally. It was offensive, because as an Aspergers person, I consider myself to be "in control" and for the most part, rational and reasonable. I'm sane, whether or not a lot of the world's NT fit that description, is debate-able.

If you are Aspergers... everything your mother and father say, will be taken deeply to heart... processed literal, very sensitive to praise and criticism, they'll have you wrapped around their finger, and jumping hoops to please them, at the expense of robbing you of your life, freedom, happiness and individuality. I saw it happen to my brother. He went out of the world complaining that he felt he didn't deserve the right to be loved... and the main subject who always was on his lips, "Mother".

You need to be aware of that, and probably can't even see that at your age. I know, because I was Aspergers (undiagnosed at age 30) and sitting in a therapist's office asking questions about the way my Mom made me feel, and my mother's unyielding gripping influence over my life... her POWERFUL emotional effect on my life... I wanted to do anything I could to please her, and nothing I ever did was good enough. At a word -- she could make me feel great, and with a word she could bring me down.
I'd say overall, 50% of the time they gave valuable advice, -- "independence from mother" was even recorded as part of the goal plan in therapy sessions, but when you're dealing with a manipulator, and you try to break free... if your mother is a manipulator, when you take that first baby step toward your freedom and independence, she will pull a stunt to knock everything from under your feet... knock you down helplessly, and you'll be forced into crawling back to her.



Perhaps in a situation of trying to understand a person.
An Aspergers person lacks the ability to discern social cues, subtle body language, communication skills... socialization techniques. In my experience, I commence things people say (literally) to memory, things they do... I compare those actions and the literal word, and if I find contradictions.. it troubles me about that person. I sniff them out sooner or later, as a liar or whatever... that can not be trusted. Moms are difficult... when they're your mother, because blood is thicker than water (like they say). You'll be more forgiving of your own mother, than a stranger.
Like you're describing your mother. She torments you when she's negative, yet, you expressed deep dependence and no desire to sever the relationship with her. Elated at the positives... but too good to be true. You love her, but at the same time, tormented over the negatives.

Emotionally torn ...

Contradictory feelings, yet about one individual. How can that be? Not sure what to feel... confusion.

A "love/hate" relationship.
Sometimes feeling very positive and on top of the world around that person (because they say things that appeal to your Aspie need for praise, acceptance and approval), and at the drop of a negative comment, can bring you down to your knees.

Strangers are different.
When a person you are fond of, does things which seem very nice... and yet at the same time have done things which lead to suspicions for distrust. It can leave an Aspie, unsure what to think about that person... loves me... loves me not... loves me... loves me not. An Aspie needs to know what to predict, stable routine, no surprises. A person who is inconsistent or unstable... will possibly lead to unstable and inconsistant behavior in an Aspie, which I suppose, could be mistaken for BPD, when its merely a normal reaction for an Aspergers to react irrationally toward unpredictable, untrustworthy situations or people. Happy to meltdown in nothing flat.

Anything is possible.
My son would go to school (before they adjusted his IEP (individual education plan) -- he would leave happy... he would arrive at school... and some thing in his environment would cause him to shift from happy, balanced... HAPPY... and suddenly upset, and a meltdown.
Borderline Personality Disorder?
No, Aspergers syndrome.
They began realizing that his environment was causing him a lot of trouble -- the changes in routine -- people who did unpredictable things... it would stress him out.

Today, he's adjusted (with the IEP in place) and loves school. He couldn't be happier.

If you were an Aspergers person (throughout your grade school years) it is very unfortunate you were not diagnosed sooner. Had you had an affirmative diagnosis, it was possible that the school would've made accomodations for your learning disability, and school even enjoyable vs. all the anxiety / confusion / stress you describe in the opening post.

You're young... you love your parents.. their opinion is very important to you. That's very clear.

The last "counseling" I had was in 2006, and went something like this:

Doc: "How old are you?"

Me: "I'm 36."

Doc: (Who had met my mother face to face, when she came out, got in his face, and told him how to do his job because I was "out of control" she claimed --- ummmm, out from under her thumb was more like it and he realllly didn't like her attitude) "I know that every child seeks validation from their mother. And, without that support in your life, it is difficult. But if she hasn't given you that validation by this point in your life, she is never going to. You need to get as far away from her as you possibly can.

---

That was the hardest, most truthful and profound thing anyone in a position of authority had ever advised me in my life.

Though 90% of my experience with the mental health system was a failure and a waste of time, that last counseling session made up for it.

---

I hope you're not offended by my blunt comments in the thread. I seriously wish the best for you, and hope you can talk to your counselor and see if they advise you to get some breathing room away from your parents, before its too late. You can't live your life in bondage of trying to please others. You've got to figure out what you want in life, for yourself and not anyone else.
I genuinely hope, only the best for you.

Can't argue against that at all, because it's true. I had THE conversation with my mom just a couple of years ago. It went like this:

...chit-chats going on...

Me: "Mom, as much as I love you, I'm asking that you butt out of my business please and let me grow into my own. I know you love me and all. However, how am I suppose to grow in my life, unless you keep treating me like I need constant guidance from you? Mom, I'm 41 freakin' years old, for goodness sake. LET ME LIVE MY LIFE, please. Don't you remember when you talked to me when I was about 18 and my brother when he was 16? You told us the following: "When you turn 18 and go out to live in the world, you're going to make many mistakes. But, you'll learn from them as well.. blah blah blah blah.. I have complete faith in both of you that you'll go on to have very productive lives."

Mom: "I don't remember that conversation." (It's funny how some parents don't seem to remember the conversation they had with their very own kids, but the kids remember it like it was yesterday).

Me: "Well it's true, because I remember as if it was yesterday. You said those things, and I have not forgotten about them at all. I remember them to this day. Like I said, Mom, I love you dearly, but you need to let me live my life."

Cut to recently......

Me to a local friend: "There's no way I'll ever go back to live in the Indianapolis metro area (where I am from originally) with my immediate relatives. There's nothing for me there, except family. I'll be happy to visit my relatives and such up there. I won't move up there to be with them. If my brother dies and my mom has no where to go, she can come to live with me. But, she's got to abide by my house rules. I abided by her house rules when I grew up."

Your Mom raised you with a healthy sense of independence.
Somehow I figured it out on my own, in the last years, how to be supportive of my children in a healthy way -- for them to search their own interests, strengths, what they want out of life and I am supportive of that... namely because I felt the burden of trying to live up to those impossible neurotic expectations that were heaped on me, nothing was ever good enough.
It was a type of mind-control tactic.. always striving to reach the crumb my mother set at a distance.. I'd struggle to reach it, and just when I made that last hurdle, she moves the goalpost on me. Always trying to earn her praise and respect.
A conversation like you described, would never happen between my mother. It would be explosive and insulting as soon as I tried to open my mouth. It sounds like what the OP described of his mother, and I found he made a very good observation... something my mother never admitted to me, but now I strongly suspect it.

Often I tried to understand "what" the dynamic was that made her such a powerfully manipulative person... keeping everything in order and under her thumb and everyone around her in an emotional wreck, at her disposal... catering to her emotional outbursts. Everyone lives for her praises and the crumbs she throws. I couldn't define what the underlying cause was. He said his mother felt a sense of "abandonment" because his Mom lost her Mom at a very young age.

My Mom probably suffers with that same issue, and through emotional manipulation -- she keeps everyone under her thumb and will never "be alone and abandoned" again.

That makes sense WHY my Mom acts like she does.
I always found that as extremely suspicious. She and her sisters all grew to be independent, successful business-women... not an introverted Asperger bone in their bodies. The most successful of the three, told me when she was very young (school age) she would sometimes hide in the bathroom stalls, because she was ashamed of her clothing... her mother had passed away, she was 1 of 7 kids, and her Dad struggling to take care of all of them, after my Mom left and the woman he remarried (ended in divorce). That same aunt, went on to establish a VERY SUCCESSFUL career, and oddly, in contrast to her "shame of her clothing, hiding in bathroom stalls as a child" -- her career kept her in the finest business clothing, and social sensibilities.

I suppose the loss of a mother at a very young age, and the hardships children face like that can have a profound, far reaching effect on how people shape their futures.

Welcome to WrongPlanet, and welcome to my time warp.

You'll need psychiatric therapy for awhile, after all you've described. Its difficult to see through all the confusion that has been saddled on you, but I sense it. Don't be afraid to question what's said to you "out of love," by your parents and anyone in your life, including things spoken in anger. If you disagree with your father, the repurcussions are?
That's wrong. You have a right to your own opinions and views. Instead of condemning you, they should respect you and agree to disagree. That's one of the first steps toward a parent allowing their children the right to be an individual. It's like, "Hey, you can be different, and I'll still love and respect you." But some people don't allow their children that God-given freedom.. afterall, if you become independent, your Mom is liable to be "abandoned".
My Mother was often the center of speculation for some kind of evil mood disorder by at least three of the siblings -- we couldn't put our finger on it, but it boiled down to her being a sane NT, who knew just how to push people's buttons. One therapist told me, "Your mother knows how to play the game." When asking "Why" she would do that to her own child? The answer was "because you allow her to."
This was confirmed when she got in the face of the last psychiatrist-therapist I counseled with in 2006. She got in his face and "told him how to do his job." He did not like her. She's a bold, powerful woman and wields domination and control over the lives of everyone around her, and can conjeur up a river of tears at will... she's sane. During the last meeting, he strongly recommended that I get as far away from her as possible, and forge a life of my own independent of her, and watch the movie "Gaslight" with Ingrid Bergman. He was only the second doctor in a long line of shrinks who had suggested that same movie in regard to my mother. She's a frightening, powerfully influential woman.... and she does it entirely through emotional blackmail and extortion.

I wouldn't play the game, therefore, she blackballed me, she perpetually persecuted me and tried to convince me I was insane... (some of the people on WP might relate with their Aspergers being mistaken as "insanity"). One of my Dad's aunts saw a little of what was going on and reassured me, "If people tell you that you're crazy and you start believing them, you'll become crazy."
So I say to question everything that is said to you... especially if it creates an emotional reaction within you. If words that are spoken to you make you feel crappy -- and cause you to question your self-worth, or especially, your sanity, ask yourself, "What was their motive of saying that to me?" Your true friends, those who genuinely love you, will lift you up, and concentrate on the positives and accept you like you are. Question everything... if people are tearing you down, or artificially inflating you with flattery... if something doesn't feel right, its your intuition speaking to you. I really don't believe you're half as unstable, as somebody lead you to believe you are. That's a lot of emotional weight, described in your first post...
Just replace emotional bullying by "Husband," with emotional bullying by "Mother" and you get the same picture.

The plot of the movie is a very shrewd NT man marries Ingrid Bergman, then proceeds to try to convince her she is hallucinating things... she's "mad" and well on her way to the madhouse. He is a perfectly sane NT, who only has his mind set on her aunt's hidden jewels. He murdered her aunt, and spends the nights prowling the house to find those jewels, and when Ingrid Bergman sees and hears the effect of his prowling, leading to natural suspicions, he uses diversion tactics of convincing her she must be crazy... "hearing imaginary things" rather than allow her become suspicious of his true, devious agenda.

Gaslight -- Part 12
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esOB1PUvFpw[/youtube]

Gaslight -- Final part
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8DoFCQhRlw[/youtube]

Not every "illness" is fixed with a pill.

AspieForty,
Quite frankly, this seems more like a rant about how your mom was a b***h than advice that's been thought through. Talking to you is quite similar to talking to my mother. Thank you for taking the time to write to me, but it seems that we have reached most of our potential.

"...than advice that's been thought through."

So you know more than a Psychiatrist holding a PhD in Psychiatry do you?




NOW YOU ARE SOUNDING LIKE MY MOTHER!! ! HA HA HA HA HA ..... wahoo.
She knows more than anyone.
Everyone who disagrees with her, is wrong and has a "mental disorder" (Like you're doing). Very paranoid, IMHO.

Most of the things I've written are simply repeating WHAT A PSYCHOLOGIST / PSYCHIATRIST advised and I .. agree with them.

So, your mother sounds like my shrink's professional opinion ? ?

Wow.... interesting conclusion you arrived at.

The wee little insult .. perhaps are an insight into your mother's annoying little insults and tantrums? Or is it your (self-admitted in thread) father's tendency to "know everything and must be right about everything". ... and you crumble in agreement.

What I have written in this thread, does not remotely relate to what you have described of the EXPLOSIVELY PSYCHOTIC RANTING from YOUR mother. Sorry to disappoint, but I'm a very quiet non-explosive person. You've got a reading comprehension problem. Being around a person who keeps you walking on pins and needles, explosive temper... wrecking your nerves... like you describe being *very emotionally dependent* on that EXPLOSIVE environment and homelife (as if anyone would emerge from it the "meter stick of sanity" and not have their perception distorted) -- you've even admitted in your initial post a certain amount of paranoia that "everyone is saying things they are not" but your imagination....



that's describing Paranoia...

... and will certainly lead to reading comprehension problems like you're obviously having. This is not the "rant about my mother" you presume it to be, as much a solution in psychotherapy for parents who suffocate the individuality of their children.

I have repeated what psychotherapists themselves have observed about personality types like you describe about your mother. Does your mother have issues, yes or no?

If so, then stop going into a state of denial and *insulting* the person who is trying to offer some helpful advice. Which... assuming... you came here for in the first place.

Yes, that word "advice" ... was it merely my imagination?? Or did you ask for advice, yea or nay?



Hmmm, looks like you were asking for advise. Literal black and white... Aspies tend to take people at their literal word, and reason in literal terms. But when anyone actually stepped forward to try to offer you some of what you claimed you wanted... you repay the favor with a big rude slap in the face. Insults and an attitude, "Nobody could possibly know as much as me, myself and I."
I gather your lack of ability to form relationships, is not simply a question of Aspergers or other "disorders" but a character issue (contradictions)... you say you want people around to participate in your life, but when they try to get close to you, you push them away with a hurl of insults and accusations. Accusing them of "mental disorders" or other snide, callous remarks... including insults on their intellect... instead of actually practicing the ART OF LISTENING...oh it is "their wild imagination".

I'm not surprised at all by the level of confusion in your opening post.

LOL

You just made my day. That was soooo funny!

And btw I don't think you have AS.