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14 Jun 2010, 1:36 pm

Hello QuantumMechanic, welcome,

Nice that you're also doing a PhD.
I am too; I'm in psychophysics, finishing my thesis now.

Good luck with your PhD project!
Enjoy your stay on the Wrong Planet!


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14 Jun 2010, 6:46 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Welcome to WP!


Noticed you are from Houston. I was there a few weeks ago for the 2010 DAMOP (Division of Atomic, Molecular, and Optical Physics) annual conference. I even got to walk through a crowd protesting in front of the Chevron building.



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14 Jun 2010, 6:59 pm

Scientist wrote:
Hello QuantumMechanic, welcome,

Nice that you're also doing a PhD.
I am too; I'm in psychophysics, finishing my thesis now.

Good luck with your PhD project!
Enjoy your stay on the Wrong Planet!


Thank you for the Welcome.

I am only working on my thesis a little now, got to get some more results before I write it full time. Therefore good luck is greatly appreciated.

I was thinking of asking you what psychophysics was, but I found your explaination in another thread. Interesting, I was not aware that such a field would exist. But I would more think more along the lines of the other in your post makeing the physical connection with neurophysics instead. Would you call the distinction as hardware (neuro) versus software (psycho)? I tend to like computer analogies for the human brain. I've forced my own software a few times; light/dark to replace a normal circadian rhythm (I was on an 18 hour watch rotation) and training my visual processing to get more out of my peripheral vision. And I kept going to speed dating (which I failed miserably at) to try to improve my social skills believing my whole problem was just one of experience, until I realized I may have AS.



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14 Jun 2010, 7:01 pm

@ Greenmouse and CockneyRebel

Thank you for the Welcome.



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14 Jun 2010, 7:07 pm

[quote="Sparrowrose]I've said the same before, myself. It's too multi-dimensional to be a linear spectrum. More like a cloud, except even that's not quite accurate because one person can have two traits that come from two different quadrants of the cloud of traits/intensities.[/quote]

Well, E-Harmony does claim to use 29 dimensions of compatibility to match people up. I think the general consensus is at least 5 and maybe up to 7 personality traits. Though I think that set only applies well to NTs. When I took E-Harmony's personality test they divided the results in four sections. Three were "O.K. I could believe that description applies to me." The fourth was "Where did they get that from?" From the matches they sent me I also gathered that their system was failing in my case. I did not give them any more money.



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14 Jun 2010, 9:21 pm

QuantumMechanic wrote:
[quote="Sparrowrose]I've said the same before, myself. It's too multi-dimensional to be a linear spectrum. More like a cloud, except even that's not quite accurate because one person can have two traits that come from two different quadrants of the cloud of traits/intensities.


Well, E-Harmony does claim to use 29 dimensions of compatibility to match people up. I think the general consensus is at least 5 and maybe up to 7 personality traits. Though I think that set only applies well to NTs. When I took E-Harmony's personality test they divided the results in four sections. Three were "O.K. I could believe that description applies to me." The fourth was "Where did they get that from?" From the matches they sent me I also gathered that their system was failing in my case. I did not give them any more money.[/quote]

It says something about you that you got to the point where they were willing to accept your money. I know a lot of people who took their initial screening and were rejected from participating in their system.

After I saw that so many of my friends were being rejected to participate in eHarmony, I took the screening out of curiosity (I have no interest in seeking a partner) and it accepted me. Someone else I know who is more familiar with psychology than I took the screening, also out of curiosity, and told me that there is a built-in component that determines whether the person answering the screening is honest and non-psychotic.


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18 Jun 2010, 6:01 am

QuantumMechanic wrote:
Thank you for the Welcome.

I am only working on my thesis a little now, got to get some more results before I write it full time. Therefore good luck is greatly appreciated.

I was thinking of asking you what psychophysics was, but I found your explaination in another thread. Interesting, I was not aware that such a field would exist. But I would more think more along the lines of the other in your post makeing the physical connection with neurophysics instead. Would you call the distinction as hardware (neuro) versus software (psycho)? I tend to like computer analogies for the human brain. I've forced my own software a few times; light/dark to replace a normal circadian rhythm (I was on an 18 hour watch rotation) and training my visual processing to get more out of my peripheral vision. And I kept going to speed dating (which I failed miserably at) to try to improve my social skills believing my whole problem was just one of experience, until I realized I may have AS.
Good that you found my explanation of psychophysics and nice that you're interested. I wouldn't say it is the same as hardware vs software in computers. We study the way the brain functions, which is the product of the neurons (and neurotransmitters). In computers the hardware doesn't define the software, the software is not the product of the hardware; instead the software is built to make the hardware and (other) software work the way it does. The hardware does define the possibilities of the functioning of the computer and partly defines the functioning of it. Similarly, the neurons define the possibilities of the functioning of the brain and human (or (other) animal). But the analogy works only partly.


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20 Jun 2010, 12:38 pm

Scientist wrote:
QuantumMechanic wrote:
Thank you for the Welcome.

I am only working on my thesis a little now, got to get some more results before I write it full time. Therefore good luck is greatly appreciated.

I was thinking of asking you what psychophysics was, but I found your explaination in another thread. Interesting, I was not aware that such a field would exist. But I would more think more along the lines of the other in your post makeing the physical connection with neurophysics instead. Would you call the distinction as hardware (neuro) versus software (psycho)? I tend to like computer analogies for the human brain. I've forced my own software a few times; light/dark to replace a normal circadian rhythm (I was on an 18 hour watch rotation) and training my visual processing to get more out of my peripheral vision. And I kept going to speed dating (which I failed miserably at) to try to improve my social skills believing my whole problem was just one of experience, until I realized I may have AS.
Good that you found my explanation of psychophysics and nice that you're interested. I wouldn't say it is the same as hardware vs software in computers. We study the way the brain functions, which is the product of the neurons (and neurotransmitters). In computers the hardware doesn't define the software, the software is not the product of the hardware; instead the software is built to make the hardware and (other) software work the way it does. The hardware does define the possibilities of the functioning of the computer and partly defines the functioning of it. Similarly, the neurons define the possibilities of the functioning of the brain and human (or (other) animal). But the analogy works only partly.


It is nicely in line with my interests in human evolution (expecially the "Great Leap Forward") along with genetics and the interplay between nature and nurture in development.

I find that most analogies work only partly. But if you do not mind I will expand it into a summary of my thoughts on the matter. Let me know if you like it or not (or even if you just were not interested in it).

In the beginning there is the code... More specifically the genetic code which I view as a digital program that runs on the hardware of a cell. A sizeable chunk of that is making a cell work. Various homeostatic feedback mechanisms to keep everything in specification. Another chunk is cooperating/competing with other cells. Biofilms are made of single celled organisms that in the particular environment specialize for the good of the whole. I even find it plausible that viruses were "missiles" made by cells to attack other dissimilar cells. They just got out of hand. Back to the story... The epitome of cells cooperating is making a multicellular organism like us. Cooperating so much that the soma cells are destined to end confident that a copy of their genes will be carried on in the germ cells. To make this organism, the cells run a code to allow them to build the hardware of the body. The code is a recipe guided by the developmental program. Differentiate this way in this chemical concentration and so forth. This axon follow this chemical to hook up to the right spot. Important to our interests here is that it builds the hardware of the human brain (according more to a recipe than a blueprint). But it builds it with certain control levers, interrupts to make the computer analogy. It makes it such that hormonal processes that is under control of the genome determines what the goals of the thinking brain will be. And so it manifests its control long after birth, even after maturity. To live up to its promise to the soma that the germ will continue on. This is overly personified, but you get the picture.

Part of the developmental program is develop the software to run in the brain and the rest of the nervous system. Part of it is already hard-wired into the structure, reflexes, instinct, bodily regulation, basic emotions, etc. This is analogous to a BIOS (built in operating system). At this point the high level of the brain is instructed to develop its own software, to learn. The developmental program directs the interest of the brain as what to learn, gives it a template. At this point you will form a model for all this sensory input, visual objects, sounds, touch, taste. Find a data structure to store this information. At this point pay close attention to the faces and sounds of those providing for your needs. Form a model, find a data structure, mimic. And repeat for another stage...

So I believe everyone has similar hardware in terms of development, but each one is unique. We all have similar BIOS built in the basic reptilian and mammalian parts of the brain, but it has been added to greatly for our level of language and thinking. Besides that similar BIOS, during development everyone develops a unique software to run on their unique hardware. Similarities come from the software needing to accomplish nearly identical tasks. Both the recipe for a brain and the evironment it is made in affect the outcome.

Some things I get from this model...

You remember little from your early development because your data storage has changed to something more sophisticated. Only basic emotion and some images and sounds make sense on retrieval.

Learning disabilities in general and ASD in particular are likely caused by miswiring of the hardware making the expected learning/writing software stages difficult to almost impossible. Which is why recognition and intervention early can make much more of a difference. Unlearning things at a later stage is much more difficult. Especially after the developmental program has moved on. Like the wild childs. Either through isolation or neglect they did not learn language when their developmental program said they should. They are found after the language interest has turned off. People try to teach them language and they can learn concrete nouns and simple phrases, but they never learn a full grammatical language. Even learning a new language after this developmental stage can be very difficult. I see this as a version of the fundamental adult AS problem. AS people did not learn the non-verbals as part of their developmental language and as adults it is like learning a foreign language. Doable at levels differing from person to person, but not easy for anyone.

Hope I didn't bore you with my model. Thanks for reading and comments welcome.



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20 Jun 2010, 12:51 pm

[quote="Sparrowrose]After I saw that so many of my friends were being rejected to participate in eHarmony, I took the screening out of curiosity (I have no interest in seeking a partner) and it accepted me. Someone else I know who is more familiar with psychology than I took the screening, also out of curiosity, and told me that there is a built-in component that determines whether the person answering the screening is honest and non-psychotic.[/quote]

Nice to know an online test decided I was honest and non-psychotic.

It is strange, I must exude it somehow. It seems to me people immediately find me trustworthy with little information about me. I could not be that immediately trusting of someone. Though maybe I am misinterpreting them in thinking they find me trustworthy.