Would like to hear from Asperger adults 40+ Special Insights

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It is also a surprise for me on the effectiveness of the group because most of them are say 10 years younger than me, and with much less work experience, so I thought I will be bored and probably can't learn much from them. It turns out, this kind of group where everybody is encouraged to speak their mind and give constructive feedback to each other, we learn from each other rapidly. Most of the feedback, even their peers/parents won't be able to give it to them, because it's like intuitive to NT, so hard for the NT to verbalise what's wrong and provide effective feedback. With our similarities in traits and characteristic, I think that build a strong ground for fruitful interactions and we can grow together despite quite diverse in background and age. Most of the guys they don't have many friends so they also enjoy a "rejection" free environment and genuine friendship with everyone. An interesting observation is that they are extremely slow and quiet in the first 2 sessions, but everybody has very drastic improvement as the sessions goes on. I would expect most NT won't have that rapid change in such a short period of time.

I realize I'm posting on a months' old post, hopefully gonewild is still reading.... You completely changed my life with your last sentence. I was seriously lacking the expression for when I feel comfortable around people, and it's when I'm in that primal, basic, WOMAN mind/intuition. It's like female Aspies can be very empathic and catch on to undercurrents far sooner than our NT counterparts. This, well, relying on this, has actually enhanced my social interactions; I have been there for others in a way that's kinda naked, they really appreciate that I can sit with their emotions and not freak out, it's calming.

Also, I believe my "mother instinct" is helping me be kinder and more considerate of others.

Likewise, thanks for the link. Spent the other evening going through all the posts in the thread.

I find Ian Ford's book valuable for several reasons:

1. I had already identified some of these patterns, and even discussed them with my colleagues, without giving them the succinct names used by Ian. My two colleagues and I were however not sure to what extent our interpretations of the motivations of NTs were reasonable. Ian seems to have independently arrived at very similar interpretations. All of these interpretations could still be dismissed as speculation, but the supporting evidence comes in the form of all the reviews and comments on the book from NTs, who confirm Ian's observations and interpretations. This confirmation gives Aspies a reasonable working model of NT behaviour that can be applied in day to day life, i.e. a model that goes much deeper than the usual behavioural tips for emulating NT behaviour.

2. Ian's explanations around NT behaviour revolve around competitive social structures and hierarchies, and around social filters that make use of free-floating cultural symbols. Until I had read the book, I had never bothered to look up the dictionary definitions of social and of socialisation. I did not realise that social refers not only to "relating to society or organisation", but also to "relating to rank and status". The definition of socialisation is similarly revealing, i.e. not only referring to "mix socially with others" but also to "make (someone) behave in a way that is acceptable to their society". It took me more than 40 years to figure this out. To me these definitions paint a very depressing picture of society. Social media suddenly takes on a whole new meaning, and socialisation apparently can include all kinds of forceful techniques, which are not limited to learning by observing. I'd be really interested in starting a separate thread in an appropriate WP forum to discuss the level to which Aspies relate to competition or not.

3. Professionally I do a lot of cross-disciplinary work, facilitating workshops with experts from different silos within an organisation to reach a shared understanding of some aspect of their business. The process involves the use of whiteboards and conceptual modelling tools to capture the concepts, the symbols, and the terminologies that are relevant to the domain of discourse. The workshops only deliver results if the participants approach the session from a collaborative perspective (truly wanting to learn something from the others that are present), and not from a competitive perspective. Even though it consumes a lot of energy, I enjoy this type of work a lot, as it allows me to ask all the inquisitive questions that come naturally to an Aspie, and it creates an atmosphere where the NT communication style is viewed as counter-productive, even by many NTs (as far as I can tell...). Ian's observations underscore how destructive NT communication can be in the context of learning and mutual knowledge transfer. The lockstep learning pattern is pervasive, yet organisations never talk about it, and it seems that organisations can only "step out of" lockstep learning with external assistance.

I have found that whiteboards and software drawing tools in combination with a small set of techniques for asking questions and for validating understanding can bring the communication of NTs down to the concrete level that Aspies can relate to. Ironically, these tools and techniques are also essential to enable NTs to better understand each other. Now, whenever I attend a business meeting, I make sure I bring my favourite tools.

This raises the interesting question to what extent the visual tools and visual diagrams are the key ingredient (perhaps only for visual thinkers and mathematical/abstract thinkers, but perhaps not for verbal thinkers), and to what extent the use of a tool simply shifts the focus away from body language and eye contact (participants are looking at the whiteboard most of the time), thereby levelling the playing field between NTs and those who live somewhere on the Autistic spectrum. Again this question is probably worth a separate thread.

I was diagnosed as Aspie on Friday. All this time (I'm 39) I thought it was just me...

Melanie

I also got the diagnosis in my thirties. I also thought it was just me…. I was bad,..bad I always thought based on the rejections of people towards me. =(

I think everything make sense now. It is just the way it is with the condition.

Wow, Melanie, that is very recent! You must still be reeling in shock and adjusting yourself to what you've just found out about yourself.

Hi Everybody.

I am a 53-year-old male who is self-diagnosed on the Autistic Spectrum--not sure if I'm specifically Aspie, though. I have problems with physical perception (e.g., I cannot tell, too well, how far I am away from a car when I park, so I have to get out of the car to see better). I have "two left hands, with many left fingers; and two left feet, with many left toes" as far as mechanical aptitude is concerned. I can also be awkward socially, in that I'm too blunt at times, and might not discern "social cues." There are times when I just don't care, and sprout forth my "Aspi-ness" for all to see--and feel proud of it. I don't enjoy the typical social repartee, wherein gossip is spread in a veiled/subtle manner. Pop culture, while useful, could be irritating, especially when discussed instead of substantive subjects, rather than as a complement to them.

In a nutshell, I'm thought of as being odd, but amiable--rather like a court jester (though without the physical abuse, fortunately).

I didn't speak words until I was 5 years old. I didn't learn how to discern irony, sarcasm, etc. until quite recently. I didn't learn when people were getting bored of me until quite recently. I went to special schools from Nursery through 5th grade, "regular school" from 6-8 grade (somewhat unsuccessfully, though I got decent enough grades for promotion), then a school for "gifted underachievers" until high school graduation. I didn't get my drivers' license until age 37; I didn't graduate college until age 45.

I do enjoy sports; I'm not an athlete--but I enjoy playing sports without speaking to anybody; I let my actions be my words. I was able to silently finish 3 marathons during the 1990's, with decent times (between 3:47 and 4:18). I enjoy watching/listening to old ball games (e.g., basketball, football, baseball [especially these days]). I also enjoy watching C-Span, Cops, pre-80's sitcoms, the History Channel, Ice Road Truckers, biography, all sorts of documentaries. I also enjoy reading nonfiction books, and occasionally fiction. "Self-help" books are irritating, though.

I don't appear standoffish to most; in fact, there are those who believe I am overly friendly. I don't dislike people; I dislike their actions. I trust until there is a reason not to trust, not the other way around. Cynicism, believe, frequently results in an early grave. In terms of "clothes-aesthetics," I'm not bad--not stylish, but not grungy, either. I believe in personal cleanliness, though I'm not a fanatic about it. I don't care too much how a room looks, as long as there are comfortable chairs, a comfortable bed, and a TV. I frequently forget how a room looks, anyway, unless there is a great painting within it (like a Dali or a Picasso or something of that ilk).

Thank you for this opportunity to "sprout forth." Have a nice day. Truthfully, I wouldn't mind it if someone responds to me. Thank you.

Oh yeah...forgot some details:

I'm married, but I want to get "un-married" soon. It's not that my wife is bad--it's that she doesn't understanding Aspie-ASD type things. She's socially conscious--and conscious, especially of how she is perceived in public. She enjoys wearing the "latest clothes," and wants you to wear them, too. She actively tries to "keep up with the Joneses." All this does seem to be petty complaining--but it does have an impact upon my overall vision of life.

She's constantly irritated with me, especially when driving. She's embarrassed by what she sees as my many social faux pas (not sure what the plural to "faux pas" is). I need someone "more my speed."

I have been employed with one organization for the past 33 years.

bump

Wow, I love this thread. I wish I could be friends with you.

I was diagnosed at 44. What makes my own story a little unusual is that I apparently learned over the years how to compensate for a lot of my deficiencies. I entered into seminary to become a Catholic priest when I was 39, primarily because I loved philosophy and theology. Now I've been a priest for 6 years and I've had to learn to 1) become a people person, 2) look people in the eye, 3) fit within a vast NT institution, and 4) get along with authority figures. I had a meltdown over a year ago that put me into treatment (the worst six months of my life) but it was there - after psychotherapy failed miserably - that I did my own investigation, which led to a diagnosis.

I like parish work. I like saying Mass, the kids in the school. They're so cute. And I like people. But I do hope the archbishop will pick me to teach philosophy in our seminary. It was always my best subject and I love living inside that bubble. I like living inside my head! Anyway, thanks for listening.

JSBACHlover, I've always wanted to know - how does one reconcile Aspie-ness with religion?

It's one of the things that made me wonder about myself pre-diagnosis. I mean, everybody around me is (mildly) religious, I've studied religion - then why can't I believe? What's wrong with me?

Post-diagnosis it all made sense - I can never believe anything without having physical proof of it. That''s how my brain works. But I really want to know how it works for others.

Fayza,

If you would like to discuss this more, you may PM me. I am open to that. I will agree with you that Aspies can have tremendous difficulty with accepting a non-material order of being. We are very concrete people and are not swayed by emotion and sentimentality. I was an atheist before I became a Catholic. It was by reason that I came to believe in a higher order. Reason is the Aspie's friend. There were for me three breakthroughs of thought which (unbeknownst to me at the time) took me down a path I was not at all expecting. I'll expound briefly on each, and then I'll leave it at that because I don't want to hijack this forum.

First, that a non-material order of being is, according to reason, necessary for me to explain the phenomena of my own identity. Once I realized that I could not reduce my own experience of myself to space and time -- specifically, when I grasped the paradox that I could have no comprehension of time nor space unless some part of my being was itself outside of space and time -- then I had to conclude a fundamentally irreducible non-material core of my identity. It sounds Cartesian, but not exactly. It took me a long to time to accept the necessity of such a conclusion.

Second, that no finite non-material substance can be the cause of its own being. If I am not my own cause, then I must have had some other cause; but no cause can be its own cause if it is finite. Therefore there must be some unlimited, non-material cause of all being. This next step wasn't as hard as the first, because I knew too much physics (I was a physics major) not to buy into the "random quantum fluctuation" origin theory; but it was similar in that it involved accepting, like a mathematical proof, the inevitability about a world that I could not sense.

Third, that if such an unlimited being exists, then it must be infinitely capable of selfless love, just as I am only finitely able to love in such manner, for I could not be capable of some category of act not ascribable in some way to the infinite cause of all being. How this third point put me in the direction of accepting the need for God to reveal himself to man, and then to his establishment of his presence among us in a community of believers, involved reasoning of a different kind than the first two. And the conclusion I was able to reach was, unlike the first two, only one of highest probability and not of absolute certainty. Of what I believe now I am actually certain. But I did not arrive at that certainty by my reason, but by something else.

Thank you.
I found a religious thread here. So maybe we will discuss it there.

I'm not a religious person, though I wish I could find immortality (i.e., I don't want to die--If I did die, I'd be stuck, unless there is a place beyond mere physical reality).

I'm not very philosophical, or really introspective; perhaps that's why I haven't really delved deeply into spiritual matters. I'm a person who believes wholeheartedly in the "here and now." This is the "concrete" side of me, a concrete Aspie.

I believe we should try to blend in with the Neurotypical population, rather than separate ourselves from the--even if the NT's want to separate from us. We have to exist "above the fray" and exude virtue.

Without at least some adherence to the Social, Genius inevitably remains within the realm of Geniuses, rendering it useless. True Genius is that which is useful for all, whether NT, Aspie, Autistic, or whatever. Temple Grandin is a prime example of one who knows this well.

I really get your experience with the psychiatric profession.....I had a diagnosis of 'personality disorder' back in the 1980's. It affected every chance I had in life. I knew they were wrong.

Eventually I challenged the medical records (having just found the diagnosis after 20 years of being in the dark) ...well would you credit it? No signs of mental illnesses , just Aspie! At 54 years old!

I had given up visiting my doctor after I read 'strange girl' upside down on the records during a consultation about something quite ordinary.

Mind you, it shows how far things have come since then. I actually love being the way I am, as I can see the wood for the trees without bias, wouldn't get embroiled in a scandal as I never give preferential treatment just because someone is my 'friend', but I hate being used and abused by NTs when they discover how literal I can be.

Just new here, glad to find kindred spirits!

I didn't read all of your post but this part annoyed me because I am a Christian as well as being an Aspie. I would just like to point out to you that Aspies are not clones. We are not all identical in personality and you do not speak for all Aspies when you make comments here. You speak only for yourself. Therefore, I wish to respectfully ask that you please do not make "we" statements on behalf of the entire Aspie population, unless the statements you are making are reflected on the diagnostic criteria. It's kind of annoying.

Example: I like chocolate and I'm an Aspie. but that doesn't mean I'm going to make posts in this forum saying: "we [Aspies] all like chocolate." That would be silly. Not everybody here is like me.

You do not speak for me when you say "we" are not swayed by emotion and sentimentality. Personally I am very sentimental and emotional. I am also logical. Being logical does not necessarily mean that you cannot be emotional, sentimental, compassionate and theist as well.

(Perhaps this is also an issue of gender. I am female, not male. If you're a Catholic priest, you're a male, and males are less likely to be "swayed by emotion and sentimentality" than females are).