Is Anyone Here 100% Or Close To 100% Autistic?

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kraftiekortie
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30 Nov 2019, 5:56 pm

Nobody is diagnosed with severe, classic autism at age 11.

It’s rare for this diagnosis to occur after age 3.

Autism is a spectrum, it should be remembered.



Your_Boy
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30 Nov 2019, 6:25 pm

EzraS wrote:
@Your_Boy where did you come up with all this? I have seen a lot of what you have said before, so I am wondering where you found it. Although I know it's obviously out on the internet and I can probably pin it down just by searching 'autism next step in evolution'.


Basically from my experience there are two types of autistics when it comes to this.

Those who were diagnosed with significant classic autism at an early age via extensive testing and evaluation that continued periodically throughout their childhood.

And those who were diagnosed with mild autism at a later age via minimal testing and evaluation.

So far from what I have seen, those who have presented pretty much the same definition of autism as you have, fit the latter description.

They write off most or all of the disorders of significant classic autism as being; a mutation or glitch. Due to comorbids. As being psychosomatic. As a result of socio-environmental conditioning.

So what's left to qualify as a next step in evolution 2.0 autistic, is someone who has minimal autism that was diagnosed via minimal testing and evaluation (or is self diagnosed) who spends a lot of time on the internet reading stuff written by others with mild/minimal autism who believe they are a super-person, an indigo child and so on.


A variety of sources. I've always loved reading. I have been gatherring all of this research since I was young. I read books from the library, read arcticles & reports on the Internet, watched scientific shows, used anecdotal evidence, observed evidence in other people, etc. I have amassed literally decades worth of random information in My mind. Using My knowledge, memory, pattern-detection skill & intelligence, I have connected dots together to explain any question or problem I have ever had. I do not seek out biased research unless lt is absolutely necessary (rare), so the idea of other autists talking about this next step in evolution is very new to Me. I have never seen any catch-all explanation of any of the points I've made. This all requires combining knowledge, something that NT scientists seem to have trouble with. For example, anyone in a medical profession knows that one cannot be born with a disorder & everyone knows that people are born autistic, yet they still make the faux claim that autism is a disorder.

When people are biased, they tend to assume something is true based on emotions & then try to rationalize lt with evidence. This never works though, because the foundation isn't solid. I may have some bias due to being autistic, but I never sought to disprove lt being a disorder just so I could not have a disorder. Otherwise, I would also try to disprove ADD, ADHD & Tourette's Syndrome as being disorders. I know I have disorders, but autism is not among them. In reality, I noticed inconsistencies in the commonly held belief that autism is a disorder. That is the logical basis that motivated Me to do more research to see why there are discrepancies. All of the research I have done has consistently & flawlessly pointed to autism not being a disorder or disability. If autism were a disorder, this wouldn't be possible. Take the Flat Earth Theory for example. Flat Earthers provide comparable pseudoscientific evidence to support their views. But since the planet is actually a globe, Globe Earthers have consistently disproved ALL of their evidence while providing uncontestable evidence that the planet is indeed more or less spherical.

In the Flat Earthers' minds, they are correct. Why is that? Because they came to an EMOTIONAL conclusion in their minds that the planet is flat & then used RATIONAL evidence to support that view. When evidence didn't fit well enough for them, they cast lt off as being wrong, so that they could still be right. The remaining evidence is only correct lf you ignore certain aspects of reality. They literally have to break physics just to be right. In other words, they are wrong but determined to be right. Poor foundation = poor theory. Globe Earthers used RATIONAL evidence to come to the RATIONAL conclusion that the planet is a sphere. Strong foundation = strong theory.

It is the exact same thing with autism. Neurotypicals came to the EMOTIONAL conclusion that autists, due to being unorthodox, must be disorderly & disabled, then used RATIONAL evidence to prove lt. When evidence doesn't fit, lt is conveniently ignored. Autists use RATIONAL evidence to come to the RATIONAL conclusion that they do not have a disorder or disability. Imagine lf I emotionally decided that there is no such thing as a wall. Now instead of letting the evidence come to Me, I'm forced to seek lt out. I might say that each language has a different word for wall & that the old English word isn't wall. Seems legit. Only one problem. It's still a wall. Sometimes lt seems like the circle block will fit through the square slot, but lt never will. An unbiased foundation is critical to any research.

The Flat Earth Versus Globe Earth Debate is a pretty good example of how unbiased My research is. For a long time, I wasn't sure which to believe. I looked at debates, examined arguments on both sides, asked questions unlikely to result in biased answers, etc. I found misinformation on both sides, which made lt difficult. Finally, I decided that there is one easy way to find out who is right once & for all: find footage of a plane flying over Antarctica. So I did. As lt turns out, an airline called Quanta regularly makes flights over Antarctica, which not only disproves the notion that lt cannot be done, but also proves that there is no ice wall, only more water. Therefore, the planet is clearly a globe.

I'm confused about this age model you're supporting. I get why you would say testing matters, but lf a teenager undergoes frequent testing into adulthood, is that teenager's autism somehow questionable? I match almost all of the criteria for being autistic, so I'm not sure why this is still being questioned. The only things remotely neurotypical about Me are certain pesky stigmas that are so strong, I haven't been able to shake them off entirely. There are a couple of other things, but they are debatable. Less than 5% of My character is even debatably neurotypical. Even lf I were 3% neurotypical, I'd still be 97% autistic. Anyway, autisarians clearly have a reason to feel superior, so they're obviously not neurotypical, since NT's do not make such claims nor possess such stats.

11 is hardly a late age & I was not diagnosed with mild autism, as I am not mildly autistic.

That is correct. Autism is incorrectly seen as a disorder due to either psychosomatic comorbidities, coincidental neurological deformation or both. Introducing the Fallacy Of Composition. Tires are made of rubber. Cars have tires. Therefore, cars are made of rubber. Right? Wrong. Cars are primarily made of metal. ADD, ADHD, Tourette's Syndrome & neurological deformation are disabilities. Autists tend to have or seemingly tend to have these disabilities as comorbidities. Therefore, autism is a disability. Right? Wrong. Comorbidities are not symptoms.

The parts do not necessarily define the whole. Otherwise, people in wheelchairs would be cyborgs. When NT scientists start isolating autism from lts comorbidities, the common sense reality that autisarians have been trying to convince them of will become clear: lt is a diverse state of mind, no different from neurotypicals than males are from females, gays are from straights or whites are from blacks. Is blackism a disorder? Some black people coincidentally have neurological deformities. Most black people suffer from comorbidities, due to societal stigma against their ethnicity. Therefore, black people are disabled. Let's take away their rights, perform horrific experiments & eugenics on them, treat them as dirt & avoid them at all costs. Fallacy Of Composition, making neurotypical scientists MORE SAMRTER since the advent of science. Oh no, I bought a game that doesn't work. I guess that means all games are broken. Let's destroy all games & only watch movies. Come on, guys, don't fall for this silly propaganda.

The sociopaths who rule you employ these tactics all of the time. And they always work. If autists & neurotypicals are busy fighting one another, there not only won't be a force big enough to stand up to the sociopaths, but also nobody will even see them. Try lt some time. Get two friends to fight about something insignificant, then steal their wallets while they're focused on fighting. They'll assume the other did lt. It's incredibly easy to do. Don't actually do lt though, as that's unethical. But this phenomenon can be observed throughout all of history, going back to Hammurabi in ancient Egypt. All of this history, all of this historical research & noone is learning a thing from lt.

Minimal autism, according to you, who have as of yet provided zero evidence to support your autism scale model. I do not seek out autistic research. All of the evidence I have provided is readily available without having to go to some autistic conspiracy theorist's blog to do so. I won't automatically disrepute such a source, but I won't seek lt out either & won't use lt as evidence except for in the rare event that lt is the only research available.



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30 Nov 2019, 6:32 pm

firemonkey wrote:
I guess a way to test the super-being position would be to see how such people stack up against NTs who are matched for age/IQ/handedness /sex etc .


It has already been done in a few studies, including at least one I have used as a source as per your request. The results are strongly indicative of My point, as some autists completely outperform neurotypicals, while others underperform. The underperformers suffer from comorbidities ornd deformities.



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30 Nov 2019, 6:56 pm

EzraS wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I guess a way to test the super-being position would be to see how such people stack up against NTs who are matched for age/IQ/handedness /sex etc .


Having a high IQ doesn't necessarily mean much. Marilyn vos Savant is said to have the highest IQ ever recorded of 228. But she's pretty much just an average columnist and author. James Woods who's an average actor has a genius IQ of 180. There are other geniuses who are pretty average people as far as their accomplishments go. Although they probably have some amazing sideline achievement like a huge SAT score or they learned to reaad when they were 3.


Agreed, though not for the same reason. The issue is that IQ testing methods are outdated. NT's will most likely think quicker than autists, which according to these tests, would make them smarter. What the tests should be measuring is the ability to create new information from old information (deductive reasoning), not cognition speed.



EzraS
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30 Nov 2019, 7:01 pm

Your_Boy wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I guess a way to test the super-being position would be to see how such people stack up against NTs who are matched for age/IQ/handedness /sex etc .


It has already been done in a few studies, including at least one I have used as a source as per your request. The results are strongly indicative of My point, as some autists completely outperform neurotypicals, while others underperform. The underperformers suffer from comorbidities ornd deformities.


In other words the ones who outperformed were minimally autistic and had attributes outside of autism which aided them in their success.



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30 Nov 2019, 7:15 pm

Your_Boy wrote:
EzraS wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I guess a way to test the super-being position would be to see how such people stack up against NTs who are matched for age/IQ/handedness /sex etc .


Having a high IQ doesn't necessarily mean much. Marilyn vos Savant is said to have the highest IQ ever recorded of 228. But she's pretty much just an average columnist and author. James Woods who's an average actor has a genius IQ of 180. There are other geniuses who are pretty average people as far as their accomplishments go. Although they probably have some amazing sideline achievement like a huge SAT score or they learned to reaad when they were 3.


Agreed, though not for the same reason. The issue is that IQ testing methods are outdated. NT's will most likely think quicker than autists, which according to these tests, would make them smarter. What the tests should be measuring is the ability to create new information from old information (deductive reasoning), not cognition speed.



IQ tests are not just about processing speed .


Step-by-Step: Interpreting the WAIS IV profile
https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs ... tation.pdf


When to Use the GAI

Quote:
The impact of neuropsychological problems related to working memory and/or processing speed deficiencies is evident in Table C.4, which shows that FSIQ < GAI discrepancies were obtained by more than 65% of the examinees in the following WAIS–IV special group samples: Intel-lectual Disability-Mild Severity, Intellectual Disability-Moderate Severity, Borderline Intellectual Functioning, ADHD, TBI, Autistic Disorder, Asperger’s Disorder, and Probable Dementia of the Alzheimer’s Type-Mild Severity


https://www.pearsonclinical.com.au/file ... evised.pdf



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30 Nov 2019, 9:07 pm

Your_Boy wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
I realized my preceding post is almost negating your experience of trauma, exclusion, blame, etc (trust me that was my own experience too, to what degree in comparison to you i don't knw, but it can't be ignored).

I don't mean to ignore that bit. I got too side-tracked talking endlessly about my kids (which is annoying + irrelevant for others) with too many details.

It seems a vast change IS happening, in a good way, for the next generation, thanks to the experiences (trauma and all) of those older than them, the conversation expanding, etc. It makes me quite jealous to be honest.

But then you also see the old way of thinking lingering in people who should know better, tendency to blame, gaslight, and use autism or 'crazy' etc, to explain everything away in an unfair, abusive way.

It's very confusing, to be honest.

I don't negate your experience, but I did want to point out that basically my kids ARE impaired and directly ASd-related (this social bit is just one aspect). That the label has been used by some to actually include them to whatever extent possible. There is the bad side, too, seen for the elder by certain (fired) professionals, certain people...



I didn't notice, but lt's thoughtful of you to consider.

More unbiased research is coming to light on autism, which is certainly a great thing. However, the biased research still prevails. Just as people take random passages from the Bible out of context to support their inane views, so too' do people with scientific research. And just as the Bible was rewritten by biased people, much of scientific research is conducted by biased people. The facts being available is not enough. It's our attitudes that are holding us back.

Could you provide some evidence that their impairments are somehow directly related to autism?


i did, anecdotal of course nas everything i write is based on my experience, look at the post about the genetics testing.
do u want to come meet my kids, esp the elder, and see what he has to deal with? :roll:


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Your_Boy
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30 Nov 2019, 9:33 pm

Tetreg wrote:
The first study only says that "it is plausible" that social factors have an effect on the development of executive function, it doesn't provide evidence to show a strong causal relationship. While it's far from a ridiculous theory you have provided poor evidence for it. The second study is irrelevant to your point, it only provides an alternative means by which an individual can experience visual processing disorders, it provides no evidence for or against visual spatial deficits being part of ASD disorders, and the paper doesn't mention ASD at all. I haven't had time to read the others yet.


Notice that I said, "strong probability". Some of the other sources also strongly suggest this being true, with one basically proving lt in a controlled experiment.

I spent about ten minutes on this one trying to figure out what point I was originally trying to make. No clue. It was late & I was tired. Going off of this source the best I can: You can see what neurological factors are in play that cause this condition. It does not mention a strong connection to the neocortex as a factor. It does mention issues with the neocortex as a factor, but these issues can be found even in neurotypicals. Tapping into an underused part of your brain does not make you disorderly. The disorderly symtoms should be considerred separately.

These disorders are comorbid to autism, not concomitant. There is a reason why not every autist develops ADD or any disorder at all. There is a reason why not every autist struggles with the same tasks or at all. It's because autism does not create these issues. They exist independently of autism. There is one & only one aspect that all autists share in common: rationality. How much rationality depends on the autist & their level of autism, but this is the only universal constant for autism, meaning that autism equals rationality. Is rationality a disorder? No, lt is not. Can someone rational also be born with a neurological deformity? Yes, they can. Can someone rational develop a disorder? Yes, they can. Can they develop a disorder from stigma? Absolutely. Rational people come out just as healthy as social people, assuming no environmental interference for both. To suggest that the neocortex is a disability is ludicrous & there is zero evidence supporting this idea anyway. So where does this notion stem from?

Scientists have noticed the larger amount of neurons in an autistic brain & decided that lt is an unnatural abnormality. So I am apparently disorderly due to an overabundance of neurons. Want to know why this concept is utter insanity? A guppy (fish) has 4,300,000 neurons. A frog (amphibian) has 16,000,000 neurons. A Nile crocodile (reptile) has 80,500,000 neurons. A raven (bird) has over 2 billion neurons. A human (mammal) has 86 billion neurons. An autistic human has about 1 billion more neurons (I couldn't find any hard numbers, so I had to do some mathematical estimation.). While neuron count isn't a definitive method of comparing intelligence, lt is pretty accurate. What you may notice here is a gradual increase through evolution, resulting in smarter & smarter animals. We have about 42 times more neurons than the smartest bird (on average), yet you mean to tell Me that a measely 1 billion (the intelligence of a eurasian jay, minus 85 million!) extra neurons is neurologically crippling? How exactly is being smarter a bad thing? How many neurons does lt take to realize that more is better? Apparently more than 86 billion. So are ravens disabled for having 1 billion more neurons than a eurasian jay? Ironically, the very scientific process being used on this research is explained as improper by science ltself.

Science is supposed to employ deductive reasoning (using evidence to come to a conclusion), not inductive reasoning (using a conclusion to come to evidence). Inductive reasoning is only useful for testing out hypotheses. No logically sound scientific basis is formed through inductive reasoning. Yet that's exactly what neurotypical scientists have done. They came to the conclusion that autists are disorderly, because they can't relate to them; & started searching for evidence to support this conclusion. Here's the thing: you actually can find rational evidence to support an irrational conclusion. It will seem to make sense. But lt's still incorrect because the entire basis is wrong. For this reason, evidence should ALWAYS chronologically preclude conclusions. Conclusions are at the ends of essays for a reason. Imagine starting an essay off with a conclusion & ending on the body. The closest these scientists have come to a logically sound explanation to their inane conclusion is the overabundance of neurons, since that actually is related to autism. But like the Flat Earthers in that other analogy I used, they're trying to force the circle block through the square slot by warping reality to make their thesis true, all the while dismissing any evidence contrary to their beliefs, such as neurological deformities in neurotypicals. Walls are walls, the Earth is round & autists are normal. Reality.



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02 Dec 2019, 6:02 am

@Your_Boy Flat earther is an analogy that better applies to you. Like with the flat earther, established science is all wrong and what you know is correct. And you have all kinds of pseudoscience to back up what you're saying. Your claim was met with similar incredulity and scorn flat earthers say they experience. Debating with you is also very similar to debating with a flat earther.



Last edited by EzraS on 02 Dec 2019, 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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02 Dec 2019, 7:47 am

^ There are quite strong 'delusions of grandeur'.



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02 Dec 2019, 8:02 am

I have found out autism being the next step in evolution is more of a thing than I realized. Up until now my only exposure to it was two or three other people who posted about it in the past. But I see now there is a fringe group who believes this.

And even the plot of a recent science fiction movie called The Predator, is about aliens trying to capture an autistic boy because they want his Aspergers incorporated into their DNA to evolve. Better explananed in this movie review: https://youtu.be/6NzMmlT0to8

Also while the OP considers ADHD to be a disorder, there are others who say it's not a disorder but a difference. And they probably give a similar spiel to his as to why that is. There are probably other disorders that aren't really disorders as well. I've only gone part way down this rabbit hole so far.

Perhaps on a day when I have too much time on my hands, I'll probe into the autism next step in evolution phoenomonon further to find out where it originated and so on.



Last edited by EzraS on 02 Dec 2019, 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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02 Dec 2019, 8:11 am

firemonkey wrote:
^ There are quite strong 'delusions of grandeur'.


The theory is naturally very appealing to the ego for some.



kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2019, 8:44 am

If autistic folks like us continue to get bogged down in debates such as this one, we wouldn’t have time to actually PROVE that we are “the next step in evolution.”

Temple Grandin is skeptical about NTs, and believes that she has a unique perspective on things. Despite being scorned by most NTs, she knew she had to cooperate with them in order to benefit from her ideas. She had to leave her anger at NTs aside, and know there were those who were not “like that,” and wanted to provide her with a way out of her quagmire.

Autistic separatism is a dead-end street—whether or not we are truly superior to NTs.

We need them. They need us.



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02 Dec 2019, 9:23 am

I've never had a problem with NTs. At least no problems that I didn't also have with all the Aspies I was around. But I have always been too autistic to be in a situation of trying to fit into the NT would.

The closest I've come to that I suppose is being with my cousin while he's hanging out with his friends. But they don't expect me to fit in so there's no pressure to try doing so.



kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2019, 9:28 am

I don’t mean “fit in.”

I mean don’t assume NTs are the “enemy.”



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02 Dec 2019, 10:31 am

Not all NT are bad, just as not all ND are good . Having a superior intellect should be, whether ND or NT, about doing your best to help others. It shouldn't be about a cock fight for bragging rights .