said goodbye to AFF, hello WP!

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Interesting. Notice again, it does not say God "designed" the creatures.

Genesis 1:20 "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."

Charles Darwin saw the same phenomena, and traced all animal origins back to the oceans or waters, just as Genesis has said.


At the Water's Edge
Fish with Fingers, Whales with Legs, and How Life Came Ashore but Then Went Back to Sea By Carl Zimmer

Science has established that same chronology in the fossil record. Animal life began in the oceans.

Be careful with the context and word order of Genesis 1:21. Just as the herbs in Yowm Three were "brought forth from the earth after their kind" (Speciation/Evolution without any personal intervention or design), God likewise, "creates" (creatures already in existence) "after their kind,".
Summary: causing species that evolved from the waters, to evolve again... and hypotheses are already in circulation. Creatures evolved and God "fine tuned" them.

Genesis 1:21 "And God created ((great whales, and every living creature that moveth)), which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

Introduction to Multiple Designers Theory - The Panda's Thumb
My own “compromise” is not “multiple” designers but a “tinkering” designer, the “Divine Tinkerer” hypothesis, which of course is quite close to Darwinistic ...
http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2004/09 ... on-to.html

CSC - The Fine-Tuning Design Argument: To rigorously develop the fine-tuning argument, we will find it useful to distinguish between what I shall call the atheistic single-universe hypothesis and ...
http://www.discovery.org/a/91

ARN Announce Number 5
The Not So Intelligent Designer Hypothesis, or, The Divine Tinkerer Hypothesis
http://www.arn.org/announce/announce500no5.htm

When did Creation end?

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The chronology is:

1. Waters bring forth moving creature... not "designed"...
2. God creates "every living creature" after its kind.

It does not say "God created the creatures" merely "created them after their kind" (which already were in existence through evolution/natural selection.

(The Fine Tuner, or Divine Tinkerer hypothesis).

An interesting point is raised on aff by one of those who respond.
- aspiesforfreedom.com/showthread.php?tid=18907&page=2

This is true:

Dogs were created, after their (wolf) kind.
In the likeness of former species... a common ancestor..

You posted:

Actually, see the variegated verse comparisons
- bible.cc/genesis/2-5.htm

Genesis is speaking of modern Agriculture in its infancy, which began in Mesopotamia around 10,000 years ago.



Several things are going on here.
The introduction of Agriculture.
The verse is clearly stating, that
1) Ancestors to garden variety vegetable species (i.e., string beans, field peas, collard greens) were already in the ground (and the verse compliments the meaning of the alternative translation) stating that no plants of the field had yet appeared.
In other words, no modern vegetables had evolved yet, but their ancestors "before them" did exist.
2) Compare the meanings of
a. "...every herb of the field before it..."
b. "...herb yielding seed after his kind..."

before its kind /after its kind... is describing speciation... common ancestry... evolution... the appearance of new species.

3. The verse is emphatic that the reason no vegetables or "plant of the field" grew, is because "there was no man to till the ground." It does not say there were no humans, merely, "there was not a man to till the ground" (or, cultivate farms).
In other words, God did not design collards, string beans or field peas. Those vegetables were "created" by humans, just as humans selectively bred wolves, which eventually evolved into dogs... all within (approximately) the past 10,000 years.

Last edited by AspieForty on 18 Apr 2010, 8:59 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Its still going on. They're "creating" Frankenstein food in labs today... you know... Monsanto and the terminator gene...

I never understood why some Creationists can not believe that life began with a one cell organism... our entire bodies are made up of complex network of single cells.. and every day, new life begins with conception from a single fertilized egg cell, which only requires 9 months of "evolution" to reach a fully developed human.

My answer to the same question is -
The day humans formulated the word "evolution"
....as if there is a difference, from a panoramic point of view.

I see none.

Greed is Ugly in more ways than one

Hello scoobert, welcome, enjoy your stay on the Wrong Planet!

Try this...

Regulated or Not, Nano-Foods Coming to a Store Near You
http://www.aolnews.com/nanotech/article ... u/19401246

Alternatively -

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ann_cooper_talks_school_lunches.html

I feel I should try to clear up a common conceptual error here.

Science does not lie - Science cannot lie - for Science is not a single body of knowledge. Science is a way of knowing, a way to learn underlying facts regarding the universe around us. It's a tool, and to claim that "Science lies!" because someone has claimed a thing to be true without sufficient data would be akin to claiming that "Typewriters lie!" because you can use a typewriter to create a false statement.

The problem begins to arise when people attempt to define "Science" as somehow opposed to "Faith", when they are in fact complementary. Can you truly claim to see the majesty of Creation, without being willing to see new stellar systems being born in the Pillars of Hercules, a feature of the Eagle Nebula also often referred to as the Pillars of Creation? Is it possible to apprehend the glory of the rise of Man, while denying the stages Man went through along the way?

Then those same people went further, attempting to conflate Faith and Religion, as if you must have a readily-defined label handy to apply to your faith - you must be a Roman Catholic, or a Pentacostal, or a Seventh-Day Adventist, or some other major church that spells out all your viewpoints and saves you the trouble of thinking about any of them. (And for some reason, they always seem to choose Religions that are subsets of Christian belief - for some reason, Faith doesn't come into their picture if you're say, a Hassidic Jew, or a Shi'a Muslim, or a Jain Hindu, or...)

I'm guessing Pentecostal

A reminder that this the introduction forum and not PPR - keep the debating there. A comment to the OP, in that while opinions are respected, you do not 'own' your thread and that contrasting viewpoints will be offered.


M.