Would like to hear from Asperger adults 40+ Special Insights

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I am retired from the military but still in nursing.

I also have noticed a tendency for younger Aspies to be negative and lacking drive to succeed. I don't think that is universally true, but I have read some of their posts on WP. I do understand how difficult it must be for younger Aspies who may have a concurrent disorder (not that I consider AS to be a disorder), have recent memories of relentless bullying, or have unsupportive families and friends. They don't possess all the life experiences the older Aspies have. I certainly didn't at that age.
I was diagnosed with a plethora of disorders: depression, anxiety, bipolar. Hell, one doctor thought I was schizophrenic. My poor brain was in a terrible place with all the medications and therapy. I eventually didn't feel human anymore and wished I was dead. I felt dead. Today, I only take lamotragene (Lamictal) to control mood swings. I eventually was diagnosed with Aspergers. Praise Cthulu, I didn't have to take meds for THAT! My anxiety evaporated once I abandoned church and my misguided belief in the sky god. It took me two to three days to recover from a Sunday of church. I was that exhausted from it.
Sometimes AS isn't easy. I have sympathy for young Aspies. Is that empathy? I sure don't feel it.

When it comes to empathy, I do feel empathy for others, even on a global scale. I just find it difficult to display emotions which leads some to the assumption that I don't emphasise with others.

As I mentioned earlier, I only realised I must have Asperger's a few weeks ago and await my diagnosis, but the best way to describe my feelings I found in a poem I wrote 14 years ago:

Angst

A roof above me, I await the morrow,
have clothes and food - I have a happy lot,
but pensively I hang my head in sorrow,
aware that there are billions who have not;

A malady affecting fools and sages,
and through my angst my pleasures must decline:
I've perished with the world for many ages,
I've tried to bear a weight that is not mine.

I should embrace my fate, be glad and merry,
just like the others turn my heart to stone
in Lethe, but like Atlas I must carry
the burden of my weltschmerz all alone.

The suff'rings of this planet are too many,
too heavy for a single man to bear:
I wish like those around me, blind and canny,
I could refuse to carry and to care.

Though men have changed, mankind has never altered
and swells my burden while I'm on the road.
The shoulders of my heart are weak; I faltered,
and once again I lift my heavy load.

(© Frank L. Ludwig)

I'm very sensitive to people's energy so my confusion and mistrust comes in when the energy says one thing and the face says another, or even worse when they then verbalise their feelings as something completely different. It plunges me into emotional turmoil and my initial reaction is usually that there's something wrong with me, that I've done something to upset them. Nowadays I know to simply say, I'm sorry but I can't read your expression. Or I just take a deep breath. But if I'm not careful I can get myself into a bit of a state and even have a panic attack...

Good morning!
Here's a good old philosophical observation: If a person's words match his or her thoughts and actions, that person has integrity. If a person thinks one thing, says another and does something else - they're a politician (the consummate social NT!) I react badly to a lack of integrity - a gut response, a disbelief, if you will, that someone would break such a fundamental (to me) aspect of good character. BUT, I'm much less upset when people "lie" about small things, because I finally understand that lies are fundamental to the social contract! Without deception the entire social hierarchy would disintegrate.

The big task for any human being is how to maintain one's integrity in a society or culture that is hostile to integrity, which all of them are, but in varying degree. Obviously, this question never enters the minds of many social people who accept that authority and power come from a supernatural source. I think for Aspies it's crucial to find a way to be authentic and function in a foreign land without succumbing to the notion that we're defective and need "fixed."

The famous "Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness" ideal is (Thomas Jefferson) Aspie! So is the idea of equality. NTs do their utmost to subvert these utterly "antisocial" goals.

I don't "get" sarcasm. I consider it a form of lying and resent people who use it.

Origin of SARCASM

French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwarəs- to cut
First Known Use: 1550

Sarcasm is strange when you think about it. I think there are/were many cultures in which it doesn't exist!

FROM a Blog by a Family Therapist: (edited a bit for length)
During a parenting class, one mother stated, “My kids are so sarcastic. They are constantly being rude to each other and being sarcastic with me.” Then she asked, “Do you think they got that from me?” Probably so. Children learn how to interact with people by watching their parents (and other adults) interact with them and with others. When parents use sarcasm, they model using sarcasm for their children.

Sarcasm, by nature, is insincere. Because of the way the brain develops, most children under the age of 9 or 10 don’t understand that sarcastic words mean the opposite of what is meant. Even so, if sarcasm is often used by parents, even young children may start to use it. Today sarcasm is embedded into American culture. Almost all TV sitcoms revolve around characters who interact sarcastically. Sarcasm saturates programs targeted mainly toward children such as The Simpsons and other cartoons.

When children are constantly exposed to sarcasm, they learn using sarcasm is appropriate. However, when they use it with their parents, parents often respond with, “Don’t you pull that attitude with me. Show some respect.” If parents feel disrespected when their children use sarcasm with them, isn’t it possible, or more likely probable, that their children may feel disrespected when parents use sarcasm with them?

In order for children to have optimal emotional development they need to feel safe and they need to feel a sense of belonging. Children learn to recognize cues in facial expressions and body language long before language skills set in. This means when parents use sarcasm while interacting with their children, their children pick up on that body language and those facial expressions and then become confused as to the meaning of the messages being sent. The confusion about the parents’ messages can lead to a child feeling emotional insecurity and having doubts about the child’s unconditional acceptance.

While sarcasm can create feelings of insecurity, responding with sincere empathy can create feelings of belonging and attachment. When we use empathy with our children rather than sarcasm, it activates the frontal lobe of the brain where higher thinking and problem solving take place. Showing empathy is one of the best ways to strengthen the parent-child relationship. Parents cannot truly show empathy while being sarcastic simply because empathy is sincere while sarcasm is not.

Parents wanting to strengthen their relationships with their children, they may begin by being aware of the frequency they use sarcasm with their children. As parents become more aware of how often they are sarcastic with their kids, and they recognize the negative effects that sarcasm has on families, they may find that replacing sarcasm with empathy dramatically improves parent-child relationship over time.

By Shiloh Lundahl, LCSW
Child and Family Therapist in Mesa and Gilbert, Arizona

Some comments on the blog I posted by a family therapist:

A neurologist (K. Rankin) is famous for "locating" the ability to understand sarcasm in a particular part of the brain, that is, it's inherent in social intelligence. The conclusion is that social intelligence is why humans are successful; if you don't understand sarcasm, you have brain damage (such as Alzheimers) or developmental deficits (Aspergers). Contrast this "hardware" approach to the therapist's observation that sarcasm IS LEARNED, that it is an unhealthy way to communicate, and that it DESTROYS EMPATHY.

So - the conclusion by a neurologist that sarcasm is some marker of "correct" human development is more than questionable! It's bad science, it doesn't fit the facts and it WAY overreaches the research. Sarcasm may "disappear" in people who have damage to the part of the brain running social interaction, but the person probably had to learn sarcasm first! That is, sarcasm doesn't come pre-packaged in our brains, it's learned and processed in the area where many "social" behaviors take place.

I think the empathy / sarcasm opposition is very important to Aspergers: do we really lack empathy from some brain deficit (I doubt it) or did we experience interactions as babies - young children that were so negative (I doubt sarcasm is the only tool of trust destruction) that we did not learn empathy? Was this "poor modeling of empathy" by adults due to the fact that we are simply different?

Same here except I diagnosed myself at 41 and got an Aspergers diagnosis a year later. Looking over my life, so much of it now makes sense.

Same here except I diagnosed myself at 41 and got an Aspergers diagnosis a year later. Looking over my life, so much of it now makes sense.

In relation to some things that were said a little further up the thread about motives and not being able to read people... I work at a large company. People aren't direct and honest, they just say nothing and give you the cold shoulder. Or they seem to do that where I work.

And things done by my superiors seem to be office politics.

I really don't understand why people just can't be straightforward and honest. They can't or won't. And it doesn't help that it seems like they have the rule book and I don't. I can often sense undercurrents but I don't know what they mean so I'm always anxious.

I want to talk to others and be social and feel apart of the group, but I don't know what to say, to whom and when. So I say nothing and I'm clearly an outsider and often criticized for not communicating enough.

One think I do know is that after I leared I was on the spectrum I though all communication problems were my fault. Not true at all. I've found that out at work. I'm not the best communicator but I'm certainly not the only one that could use improvement.

Also, in reply to some things said at the beginning for the thread... it's very true that autism support and services are geared to children (particularly males) and the old one gets the less services and support they're likely to get. By the time one is out of college for a few years, there isn't likely much if anything available. The older a woman you are the less you fit the expected mold and the less likely you are to get any help, even a diagnosis. Though I think professionals are finally catching up with the Autism community and learning that that are many, many females that are on the Spectrum and never diagnosed. My mother is on the spectrum and her mother, 94, too, neither diagnosed.

This is why we need to speak out. I don't mean give people attitude, just speak out about who we are, what we have experienced because people need to know that women can be Autistic and that it may be different in its presentation to males. The more people that learn we're here, we exist, the better educated they will be and just as ignorance can be spread, so can facts.

limping2victory (love that!) Yes, and the world "making sense" is so vital to my sanity! I can't imagine not wanting the world to make sense. I'm dumbfounded (still) that ANY explanation seems to satisfy NTs, no matter how ludicrous, illogical, or irrational it is!

Previous to understanding what's going on with all this, I used to "correct" people who had bizarre and fanciful ideas about reality (mostly of the God-supernatural-magic type) but gave that up after realizing that there was something wrong with their ability to process information. They evidently are stuck with a "loop" type of program that can't be broken: lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink. This includes a high percentage of NTs, so giving up trying to educate them was actually a great relief! So much more time open to do other things; so much less stress.

Well, for most of my life I insisted that it is impossible for any being to truly experience empathy since 2 objects/beings cannot occupy the same space at the same time. It is not possible in the realm of physics to experience "true" empathy. The best response to this is that empathy is contrasted with sympathy by only a matter of quantification. Empathy is sympathy on a very large scale, but it still is not "true" empathy because that simply is not possible. Not for anyone. So, I can feel for someone when they appear to be hurt or sad. I think that empathy is possible only when someone has experienced something as similarly as possible to an event that someone else has experienced and has reacted (inside) in as similar way as possible-which IS still impossible for anyone because no two people can have identical experiences in the scope of their lives! No two people are raised in the same way. No two people are truly identical (not even twins because they can not experience every single event from the same position in space at the same time).

I'm not trying to be defensive or anything about empathy. I don't even know what my point really is. Oh yeah, it was that since no one can "truly" experience empathy, I guess the status quo's definition of what empathy *is* is what we are all "supposed" to experience. Their definition being something to the effect of: an event (probably grand scale, because the smaller events could really only invoke sympathy) that is experienced and responded to by 2 or more individuals in as similar a way as possible? And, if that is what we are supposed to be basing society's definition of empathy on, then none of us lack empathy. Not even plants.

Hello A number: I agree that many of the so-called symptoms of Aspergers are non-medical social judgments on the part of the social majority. Words are subject to changing definitions, confusing definitions, and definitions that don't refer to anything that is "real." People are often talking about completely different "things" and still will argue endlessly over who is correct! Truly a bizarre social phenomenon. Many words have simply lost any useful meaning due to overuse, misuse, and appropriation by pop culture, such as Hero, Icon, Consciousness, Mind, Cosmic, and "scientific" which may be the most abused word ever! Many diagnosis in mental health and Autism itself, have suffered the same loss of accuracy.

One big problem is that NTs believe that words have magical power over other people, along with facial expressions, gestures, body language and objects. This can be seen in the belief in verbal and ritual curses, like fear of the Evil Eye; the power of relics like "saint's bones" and sports memorabilia; amulets and talismans (lucky charms, protective objects) and the entire supernatural dimension of gods, demons and ghosts who control human lives and overthrow the Laws of Nature, which is what Miracles supposedly do. This explains why they are so eager to see the "correct" facial expressions and body language (even though they consistently misinterpret these characteristics) and to hear the "correct" verbal responses from other humans. The myth of eye contact is just that - a myth. Eye contact is culturally determined and not a symptom of any "disorder."

Just saying hello to everyone: Holidays can be really stressful, so take care of yourselves!