The Dino-Aspie Ex-Café (for Those 40+... or feeling creaky)

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Chuck
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07 Jan 2008, 9:42 pm

hartzofspace wrote:
Hi, everyone! Just had some delicious, all natural bacon, and eggs for my supper. Nitrate free, can't beat that.

Very interesting posts about mirror neurons, Zanne and Chuck. I went to the thread in the In Depth discussion, where that poster is going on about a cure. IMO, why would I want to cure something I've managed to live with all my life? It's not bothering me. If it's bothering anyone else, that's their problem, entirely.


Hey Hartz! :D

Seeing the "funny comments" posted here that we quoted our parents as having said to us as kids, I'm sure raising us was no picnic for them. :wink: When we were kids, two parents raised most of us. Now single parents raise most families. If raising an autistic kid was tough for our parents, it's gotta be really tough for this generation!! ! 8O

Couple that with the fact that almost every parent wants what they perceive to be best for their kid, if a cure were made available that would solve the problem of a troublesome autism spectrum kid - option or mandatory - the kid's getting the "cure".

The clincher: I receive 7 pharmacy journals a month. This month I received 3 journals in which autism was a headline topic. (First time I've ever seen a topic in a pharmacy journal even discussing autism, except in passing - now three headline articles on the same month?) One of them contained this statement:

"According to the Autism Society of America, the estimated annual cost of caring for individuals with autism is $90 billion. In 10 years, the estimated cost will be $200 billion to $400 billion. Moreover, the society reports that the cost of lifelong care can be reduced by two thirds with early diagnosis and intervention." (this is referenced to: Autism Facts and Statistics. www.autism-society.org/site/PageServer? ... factsstats. May 21, 2007).

IMO, if a cure is found, everyone diagnosed autistic will receive it, mandatory or not. I don't think they'll wait to find out if the kid is high-functioning or Aspergers. And even a high-functioning and/or Aspergers kid would be too much trouble for a lot of parents.

I feel lucky to have been born when we were! 8O



postpaleo
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08 Jan 2008, 1:33 am

I've been thinking about this cure thing a lot more then normal lately. (It started a bit ago with a post about vaccines.) Forecasted outcomes, consequences, ramifications of a cure and so on. Not so much what might be the root causes of the spectrum, but a million variations of "what ifs".

What kind of kicks me in the butt and this is in no small part due to having worked in geriatrics for a while and other institutional settings, is the above quote from the Autism Facts and Statistics. 90 billion isn't near enough today and they're trying to stagger me with that figure? Bull s**t.

And there is that word "intervention", which very nicely fits into and goes along with that "cure" word. I do know you have lost all hope of argument and rational debate as soon as you pull out the Nazi word. I did it anyway. Master race and the pure race thing has been tried more then once and I don't have any reason to think that it won't be tried again and isn't being used in one form or another, right now. I'm not so sure as it would come down as some kind of formal plan as much as it would come in the form of a general social trend. Maybe that's the more dangerous as it would be below the radar to most.


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08 Jan 2008, 2:08 am

Well, I was an Aspie single parent, raising an aspie child, with no help, clueless that I had it, as well as the fact that my daughter had it. And we survived, and it didn't cost billions of dollars. So there, EXPERTS OUT THERE! :)


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lemon
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08 Jan 2008, 3:02 am

hi everyone ! :D
*waving*

an exam on saturday and a funeral tomorrow



postpaleo
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08 Jan 2008, 3:07 am

This is just a small taste of why 90 billion isn't enough. I don't believe in throwing money at a problem but in this case it would be a start to get a grip on just one woman's insights. I didn't get permission to put part of what she wrote about it. I haven't even thanked her for giving me a hint about myself yet. I'm not sure how one thanks someone for being them self. Amanda speaks with the help of a voice device on her computer. Her writing skills and thoughts intimidate the hell out of me, but yet if someone that didn't have a clue might observe her...well she doesn't fit into the master race plan. I winced badly every time I saw such things as the below and yet the brief contact I had in one of the better settings contained some of what she speaks of. I saw this a lot in geriatrics, to much and let me remind you all, we're not getting younger and we are on the spectrum, as is Amanda.

"Control.

Infantilization.

Constant monitoring.

Fear of staff because of what they could do, and inmates because of the staff.

Smells.

Screams.

Begging for basic items, and for “privileges” that those outside see as rights.

Looking forward to tiny things to relieve monotony that’s impossible to relieve.

Everything you do, say, and think being put in psychiatric terms (”No, no, no, I’m not anxious for my meds, I just know that being late on that one gives me migraines, and I don’t know anyone in the world who likes migraines.”)

Separation from everything and everyone familiar.

Not being allowed my own staff, advocate and cognitive interpreter (whom I have a right to under the Americans with Disabilities Act as surely as a sign language interpreter), watching her have to fight to get in outside of visiting hours.

Having people control when, where, whether, and how I can speak to familiar people and advocates.

Discouragement of bonding among inmates or between inmates and staff. {this is postie and yeah that is part of the training, which I also ignored}

Catch-22 on displays of emotion — every emotional display has a corresponding psychiatric label, but a lack of emotional display is considered a sign of depression.

Being told what you’re “really” thinking and feeling, as opposed to what you are thinking and feeling.

Having your motivations constantly questioned and scrutinized.

Backwards language: ‘Getting with the program’ is a ‘good step toward independence’, but making your own decisions is ‘non-compliant’, ‘manipulative’, or ‘attention-seeking’.

In this case, some of staff’s inability to grasp that I was genuinely abused in previous settings and I didn’t just think I was (I told the near-death horror stories when asked; I knew they wouldn’t understand the subtleties), and that it was mainly staff, not inmates, who perpetrated it.

Assumptions on the part of staff that if abuse was perpetuated against me in the psych system, then it was my fault, and asking questions about what I had done to cause it.

Condescending chatter from staff who think they’re being nice but who’ll become suddenly grouchy if you show any sign of not liking it.

Trying hard never to be noticed, ever.

Knowledge that whether I stay or go free is contingent upon other people’s desires and other arbitrary factors, and that false reports can easily be written and justified.

Knowledge that my housekeys and wallet are in a locker in the nurse’s station.

Fear of thinking one’s own thoughts or feeling one’s own feelings, and constant questioning of whether they’re real or delusional.

Fear of speaking out, feeling — and sometimes being scolded — like an ungrateful child if you do.

Being patronizingly told of the seriousness of your actions or thoughts, as if you’re unaware of this fact.

Knowledge — from previous experience — that if I stay too long, I will have to either kill all desire for freedom; or go berserk, violent, and self-destructive and risk dying or being kept even longer.

Knowledge that most of the world still condones this, either overtly by calling it ‘treatment’ and ‘necessary’, or by never having to think about it.

Control.

Control.

Control."

Now, having put this here, it should be obvious that money isn't going to solve it, but...training and attitude change and better facilities would be a start. 90 billion my f*****g ass!! You just don't know it all and I don't pretend to, but I have seen enough and heard enough to know we as a society are seriously sucking at this situation. I bet more then one of us are going to relate to some of this list and some of us could add things to this list with no trouble and we're on the "outside" or are we?


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postpaleo
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08 Jan 2008, 3:25 am

lemon wrote:
hi everyone ! :D
*waving*

an exam on saturday and a funeral tomorrow


Hi lemon, :D

Sorry :oops: , I was on a bit of a tirade and didn't see your post before I spit out some venom. That kind if thing really upsets me.

You sound busy with things you'd rather not be. How's the job going?


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ZanneMarie
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08 Jan 2008, 6:41 am

postpaleo wrote:
I've been thinking about this cure thing a lot more then normal lately. (It started a bit ago with a post about vaccines.) Forecasted outcomes, consequences, ramifications of a cure and so on. Not so much what might be the root causes of the spectrum, but a million variations of "what ifs".

What kind of kicks me in the butt and this is in no small part due to having worked in geriatrics for a while and other institutional settings, is the above quote from the Autism Facts and Statistics. 90 billion isn't near enough today and they're trying to stagger me with that figure? Bull sh**.

And there is that word "intervention", which very nicely fits into and goes along with that "cure" word. I do know you have lost all hope of argument and rational debate as soon as you pull out the Nazi word. I did it anyway. Master race and the pure race thing has been tried more then once and I don't have any reason to think that it won't be tried again and isn't being used in one form or another, right now. I'm not so sure as it would come down as some kind of formal plan as much as it would come in the form of a general social trend. Maybe that's the more dangerous as it would be below the radar to most.


I would tell them to study how legally and medically the final solution came to be, but it would be a waste of my time. Even if they read it and Nazi Doctors, they still wouldn't allow themsevles to see the connection. And quite honestly, that includes a great many with AS. They should work on a cure for terminable stupidity, but that would wipe out a great deal of the human race watching their so-called reality shows that call stupid behavior "entertainment." Mind you, stupidity to me is when you know better and do it anyway.

My parents at least had equal opportunity funny remarks. No one was spared. If the dog had an accident, it was our fault for not letting him out. Then we'd hear, "There's a reason you were given the bigger brain so use it." Apparently there was no reason these people were given the bigger brain because they have no desire to use it. They want quick answers. They don't care where they come from or what kind of nonsense they were based upon, they just want them. Reminds me of Rasputin.

I believe Psychiatry and Education is feeding it because it's creating quite a little economy for them and something has to replace ADD which has worn out its welcome. They already went down that road and at the end they decided it was over diagnosed and medicated. Gee, what was your first clue? Today, instead of mother's little helpers, we have children's little helpers.

They're gonna clean up your looks
With all the lies in the books
To make a citizen out of you

Because they sleep with a gun
And keep an eye on you son
So they can watch all the things you do

Because the drugs never work
They're gonna give you a smirk
Cause they got methods of keeping you clean
They gonna rip up your head
Your aspirations to shreds
Another cog in the murder machine

They say oh
Teenagers scare the living s**t out of me
They could care less as long as someone'll bleed
So tuck in your clothes
Or strike a violent pose
Maybe they'll leave you alone, but not me


That is what causes these things. Fear. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. (I'm hearing Talking Heads now.)


And for those who do not know Teenagers, here it is.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6EQAOmJrbw[/youtube]


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ZanneMarie
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08 Jan 2008, 6:47 am

hartzofspace wrote:
Well, I was an Aspie single parent, raising an aspie child, with no help, clueless that I had it, as well as the fact that my daughter had it. And we survived, and it didn't cost billions of dollars. So there, EXPERTS OUT THERE! :)


They will ignore your statistic because it doesn't fit their facts. The best thing to do is not get diagnosed and move away until the madness ends. I did it once in the early 80's and it appears it is time to do it again. I'm not attached to material things so it makes it easy to get away from their hysteria.

Picture in your minds a group of girls in Salem. Suddenly a bunch of town weirdos are dead. That's what happens when people like this get going. Unfortunately, that is human nature not at its finest. This is exactly why I stay in the closet.


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ZanneMarie
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08 Jan 2008, 6:47 am

lemon wrote:
hi everyone ! :D
*waving*

an exam on saturday and a funeral tomorrow


Lemon! You always make me smile! Good luck on your exams!


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Last edited by ZanneMarie on 08 Jan 2008, 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

ZanneMarie
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08 Jan 2008, 6:58 am

postpaleo wrote:
This is just a small taste of why 90 billion isn't enough. I don't believe in throwing money at a problem but in this case it would be a start to get a grip on just one woman's insights. I didn't get permission to put part of what she wrote about it. I haven't even thanked her for giving me a hint about myself yet. I'm not sure how one thanks someone for being them self. Amanda speaks with the help of a voice device on her computer. Her writing skills and thoughts intimidate the hell out of me, but yet if someone that didn't have a clue might observe her...well she doesn't fit into the master race plan. I winced badly every time I saw such things as the below and yet the brief contact I had in one of the better settings contained some of what she speaks of. I saw this a lot in geriatrics, to much and let me remind you all, we're not getting younger and we are on the spectrum, as is Amanda.

"Control.

Infantilization.

Constant monitoring.

Fear of staff because of what they could do, and inmates because of the staff.

Smells.

Screams.

Begging for basic items, and for “privileges” that those outside see as rights.

Looking forward to tiny things to relieve monotony that’s impossible to relieve.

Everything you do, say, and think being put in psychiatric terms (”No, no, no, I’m not anxious for my meds, I just know that being late on that one gives me migraines, and I don’t know anyone in the world who likes migraines.”)

Separation from everything and everyone familiar.

Not being allowed my own staff, advocate and cognitive interpreter (whom I have a right to under the Americans with Disabilities Act as surely as a sign language interpreter), watching her have to fight to get in outside of visiting hours.

Having people control when, where, whether, and how I can speak to familiar people and advocates.

Discouragement of bonding among inmates or between inmates and staff. {this is postie and yeah that is part of the training, which I also ignored}

Catch-22 on displays of emotion — every emotional display has a corresponding psychiatric label, but a lack of emotional display is considered a sign of depression.

Being told what you’re “really” thinking and feeling, as opposed to what you are thinking and feeling.

Having your motivations constantly questioned and scrutinized.

Backwards language: ‘Getting with the program’ is a ‘good step toward independence’, but making your own decisions is ‘non-compliant’, ‘manipulative’, or ‘attention-seeking’.

In this case, some of staff’s inability to grasp that I was genuinely abused in previous settings and I didn’t just think I was (I told the near-death horror stories when asked; I knew they wouldn’t understand the subtleties), and that it was mainly staff, not inmates, who perpetrated it.

Assumptions on the part of staff that if abuse was perpetuated against me in the psych system, then it was my fault, and asking questions about what I had done to cause it.

Condescending chatter from staff who think they’re being nice but who’ll become suddenly grouchy if you show any sign of not liking it.

Trying hard never to be noticed, ever.

Knowledge that whether I stay or go free is contingent upon other people’s desires and other arbitrary factors, and that false reports can easily be written and justified.

Knowledge that my housekeys and wallet are in a locker in the nurse’s station.

Fear of thinking one’s own thoughts or feeling one’s own feelings, and constant questioning of whether they’re real or delusional.

Fear of speaking out, feeling — and sometimes being scolded — like an ungrateful child if you do.

Being patronizingly told of the seriousness of your actions or thoughts, as if you’re unaware of this fact.

Knowledge — from previous experience — that if I stay too long, I will have to either kill all desire for freedom; or go berserk, violent, and self-destructive and risk dying or being kept even longer.

Knowledge that most of the world still condones this, either overtly by calling it ‘treatment’ and ‘necessary’, or by never having to think about it.

Control.

Control.

Control."

Now, having put this here, it should be obvious that money isn't going to solve it, but...training and attitude change and better facilities would be a start. 90 billion my f***ing ass!! You just don't know it all and I don't pretend to, but I have seen enough and heard enough to know we as a society are seriously sucking at this situation. I bet more then one of us are going to relate to some of this list and some of us could add things to this list with no trouble and we're on the "outside" or are we?


And here's the sad truth Postie, this happen to my mother's oldest brother at ten because he had a speech impediment and kids teased him so he fought them. My grandfather was embarassed, so he sent him to the county home. Because of a speech impediment.

15 years ago they pumped kids full of sugary snacks and drinks, plopped them in front of the television and complained they couldn't concentrate. They continued to give them all the sugar and the television but kept them drugged. Not so very different.

30 years ago they beat kids with Autism to snap them out of it. Guess what? They still have one institution that uses electrick shocks on the "worst" cases. Parents line up to get their kids into this top of the line place. That is happening right now. Nothing has changed since my uncle was locked up at ten for a speech impediment.

My cousins had it, received speech therapy and were just fine. They are all above normal intelligence. My uncle however now acts like he's ret*d because he lived in an environment you described above.


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ZanneMarie
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08 Jan 2008, 7:01 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-c94VVU7zc&NR=1[/youtube]

This is what I intend to do.


This ship is taking me far away
to the place where people cared if I lived or died.


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08 Jan 2008, 9:22 am

I got so upset and shaking last night writing and thinking about all that stuff again, I broke a mortar and pestle. Not a rage thing, I didn't throw it, just being a klutz with shaky hands. So I took a little yellow pill, a "Mothers Little Helper". I like em, takes the edge off when I need to. (Yeah ok so maybe I get a little zoned once in a while, it's just a little side effect and you just have to put up with some of them. :roll: 8O 8) ) The doc about had a s**t fit when I was tired of all these current concoctions and all the side effects and don't work "now" and don't last long enough and don't... you get the picture. Finally I said, hey what ever happened to those "little yellow pills"? Do they still make them? And like I said he about had a s**t fit I would even suggest such a thing and especially since I've got a past full of self medicating. See their take on it, once an addict and I don't care what it was you did, always an addict. Bull s**t, I know why I did it now and just the knowledge alone is worth it's weight in gold. Couple it with knowing my general tendency, like the word moderation isn't in my vocabulary and that stuff he's (they think, almost all of them are guilty of this) thinking is bull s**t. Christ you have to practically force feed me to take an aspirin anymore. I won the arguement, I have them now on an as needed basis. I think the label says for "break out anxiety", yeah ok word it anyway you want. Ok...I can see where this is going to lead me, again... *sigh*.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=j3Hf_OclE8U[/youtube]


Hey Zanne I hear some of those tramp steamers are the way to go, if you like the sea thing. Really really nice and they only take a few people, have good food, nice rooms, some even have swimming pools and no crowds, oh I said that already.


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08 Jan 2008, 9:34 am

Hello Lemon! :D

Good luck with your test. You are talented, whether it shows in your scores or not. I won't say anything funny so you won't laugh at the funeral, and offer my condolences.

I won't even mention that your mental image of dying cats now makes you smile. Good luck with your test. :wink: :lol:



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08 Jan 2008, 10:06 am

Things doctors have given me to "help" me:


Quaaludes (3 x a day for 5 years)
Darvon (3x a day for 5 years)

At the end I still had migraines, my skin was yellow and I hallucinated. I could get drunk quickly though. When I stopped them (after a nice Pharmacist explained what they were), I couldn't sleep for six months. The doctor "helped" me alright.


Stadol (every 2 hours as needed)

2 mg of Stadol is equivalent to 10 mg of Morphine according to the FDA. Nice. No one even warned me not to drive when I used it. The first dose caused me to have hallucinations. It lasted 15 min. The next dose lasted only five. Five years later they made it a controlled substance at the behest of the drug company itself because of deaths and addictions (side effect is that it makes you stop breathing). Nice. It did absolutely nothing for my headaches, but it did remind me of the 60's and I had the best sex ever all by myself. So there you go. Doctors "helping" me out. They are so helpful. I think I'll go see about ten more of them. <rolls eyes>


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Chuck
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08 Jan 2008, 10:26 am

postpaleo wrote:
...I got so upset and shaking last night writing and thinking about all that stuff again, I broke a mortar and pestle....


It's hard to look at all of that "stuff" and not be affected by it. It is good that you are affected by it. To know the injustice in it. To be frustrated by "things as they are" because you see that they aren't far from "things as they've been". Although I must point out, as you seem to have forgotten, that your feelings are not possible - you were born without empathy. Please sit in a corner. Bad Postie.

It is good that you have learned to evaluate life by the views of your own eyes, by the touch of your own hands , by the tread of your own feet, according to your own experience - and not by the beliefs and dictates of society. Although I must point out, as you seem not aware, that you have learned wrong answers through your wrong perception - yellow is green, and white is black. Please sit in a corner. Bad Postie.

And it appears to me that you and Zanne would just prefer to be left alone, living life as you choose, and not as you have been told good boys and girls should. Please sit in a corner. Bad. Very bad.



...or, perhaps...



....perhaps the best we can do is honor who we are and live that as honestly as possible - whether or not we appear odd or different, strange, eccentric, and whether or not our talents, prodigy, and gifts are overlooked.

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! !! !

(Bad Chuck sits himself in a corner).



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08 Jan 2008, 11:11 am

ZanneMarie wrote:
...Things doctors have given me to "help" me:


Other than the past 1½ years of going occasionally to my psychiatrist as he diagnosed me with ADD, and Asperger's, and then rescinded Asperger's, I had only been to a doctor for a broken leg, knee surgery, a hernia operation, and skin cancer. I treated my broken thumb, sliced arm, torn shoulder, any other minor injuries myself.

I hadn't been to a doctor in about 8 years, had changed insurances, and decided to get a physical. New insurance meant pick a new doc. I picked Dr. Paul Yim. His office was listed near my new home.

His introductory medical form said "list all current and previous injuries, health conditions, allergies, and pertinent medical information". Being a good little Aspie, I took this very literally, and filled the sheet up, front and back.

The Dr. Yim apparently thought I was a drug-seeking hypochondriac, although that didn't dawn on me until after I left his office.

DY: "Why did you pick me? Was I the last person on the list, or did you start with 'Y'?"
me: "...erm?..."
DY: "I cannot treat all this. Your insurance will only pay me to treat one problem at a time. You must set up separate visits for each complaint. What do you want to treat first?"
me: "I just came for a physical."
DY: "You wrote on the form that you have a torn supraspinatus muscle. How do you know this? We must treat that first."
me: "I'm already treating it. Have been for 4 months. It is almost healed. (showing him how I rotated the shoulder to determine which muscle was affected) I just wanted to check my cholesterol levels today."
DY: "A torn suprspinatus requires surgery. Let me look at it."
me: "I treated it with diet, exercise, and massage. I just came for a physical..."
DY: "Did you come for drugs?"
me: "...erm?..."
DY: "Why are you here? Today?"
me: " A p-h-y-s-i-c-a-l. I want a physical."
Dy: "I have checked your arm. That is all your insurance will pay me for today. You will have to reschedule another office visit for a physical."

I never re-scheduled. :roll:
:lol: