Would like to hear from Asperger adults 40+ Special Insights

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I agree that many of the so-called symptoms of Aspergers are non-medical social judgments on the part of the social majority. Words are subject to changing definitions, confusing definitions, and definitions that don't refer to anything that is "real." People are often talking about completely different "things" and still will argue endlessly over who is correct! Truly a bizarre social phenomenon. Many words have simply lost any useful meaning due to overuse, misuse, and appropriation by pop culture, such as Hero, Icon, Consciousness, Mind, Cosmic, and "scientific" which may be the most abused word ever! Many diagnosis in mental health and Autism itself, have suffered the same loss of accuracy.


You are so correct, gonewild. Well said. Interestingly enough, the way you phrased this brings up the main reason that the thought I was not a part of the Aspie community. I was told that there was no way for people on the spectrum to partake in philosophical discourse because they have no concept of abstract thought. I have a degree in philosophy, so I took that statement to mean that I was not Aspie. However, the more I read and the more I learn, it seems to me that you would HAVE to be Aspie (or at least a very good neurological translator) to study philosophy. I have zero doubt in my mind that Socrates was on the spectrum and I have read somewhere that Kant was a suspected Aspie as well. Your words that I quoted above are precisely the sort of thing that philosophers (especially the ancient ones) spent every waking moment of their lives deciphering. We-society- HAVE to agree on the definitions of words. We have to be able to communicate with each other. Someone(s) has to set in stone what each word means and why. Right? Then how is it that we as a culture have let it get to this point where so many words HAVE lost their meaning. How is this working out for us? It isn't.

I have to contemplate the second half of your post. I do love it, and agree wholeheartedly.



eta-it looks like I am having difficulty using the quote function, I apologize

While I do, if I don't get back sooner I wish you and everyone hello and a stress-free holidays as well.

A number: Thank-you for your kind words. I'm so used to NTs belittling or laughing off my sincere attempts at understanding what exactly is going on with the NT / Aspie thing. It is a "thing" at this point; undefined or analyzed, no source, cause or reasonable basis. One sided! "Aspies are" ....followed by an almost nonsensical list of "symptoms."

At this point I've taken a step back and laid out the problem more generally, into two basic types of brain organization. I think that (social, magical, metaphysical, supernatural, religious) thinkers are almost totally unable to think literally, but we live in a literal universe. A handful of equations can predict how matter and energy will behave at almost any time or scale! How much more literal can it get? With mathematics we can approach literal reality, but still, many approximations must be made because the human brain cannot perceive enough of the information that constitutes the universe to make much sense of it - a few exceptional people (possibly Aspergers), have had a literal brain / mind organization (early Greek thinkers etc to Newton, Einstein) who have "explained" reality to the rest of humankind, often resulting, not in a well-deserved "thank-you," but in derision, persecution and social exile.

The supernatural dimension that magical thinkers believe to be the source of reality, and indeed to control our very lives (God did it!) is a product of the human brain and exists nowhere else. It's a human delusion, illusion, hallucination (not sure what to call it!) It's ridged, deterministic, absent of choice or consequence - depressing really! (God is going to destroy the world, so it doesn't matter what we do - a complete abrogation of responsibility) The severe problem is that each person or group is caught in the trap of absolute certainty that their particular hallucination is THE only correct universe! So we end up with all these imaginary universes perpetually at war with each other...and none of them has a clue as to what the universe really is like!

My research points to the "supernatural" brain type to be a recent development in evolution, produced by self-domestication, which selects for juvenile characteristics (think wolf - adult: domestic dog - perpetual puppy. This process produces both juvenile physical and psychological traits, including hypersociality: think social media, middle school lunchroom. In other words, modern social humans are a juvenile version of wild (adult) humans and never rally reach adulthood. (I'm certainly not alone in this assessment) I would bet that wild humans saw the environment very literally; survival depended on accurate observation and behavior that utilized nature's boundaries and benefits. Our literal Aspie brains may be a legacy from that world.

I'm 50 just got diagnosed, I already knew. The first Dr. I saw said "you may have a little OCD but aspergers is just the flavor of the month. He then told me that therapy and a diagnoses was expensive and I probably could not afford it.
I found this all hilarious at the time and more so now. If your older and just found out just roll with it. That's what you've probably been doing all along.
It does sort of suck but it seems better than the alternative (NT)

Welcome MtDimini: yes, we all seem to be in the same boat here! Lucky to have escaped...

I just came back to this discussion and found a lot of valuable insights from everyone. I'm in my 30's. Here are some of my female Asperger traits to add to the list:

IQ much higher than EQ (IQ & EQ differences more than 1.5 standard deviation)
2-tiers maturity: Intellectual maturity much more than emotion maturity and social maturity (SQ - social quotient). Sometimes people cannot notice because intellectual maturity mask emotion and social immaturity.
Non-verbal learning disability
Facial recognition response time: a few seconds slower than normal people
Attention shifting among team of people is much less frequent than normal people
Taking things and conversation literally
Stimming: craw-like handshake during conversation with friend when excited on the conversation topic. Not notice myself. But my friend point out that I have been doing that 10 times during that day.

The following are some of the dysfunctional thinkings that I can relate to:

Impose your own judgement to override the instructions or judgement of someone with higher authorities
e.g. A summer student were told that the office dress code is shirt and tie. But the student makes the judgement himself thinking that was not necessary and wear jeans instead to work. The end result is his losing the job because of his Ego and stubbornness in not listening to others who are more senior or experienced than him.


Taking statistics and facts too seriously

Octobertiger: "Forget the statistics. I'm not a number on a chart, and you are not one, too."

Lack of Emotion Wordings during Conversation

One of the therapy session will be practising emotion wordings e.g.
"I feel helpless...because..., so I need to seek help from ..."
"I feel pressured or stressed because..., so I need to take a break"

Emotion transfered through other means than express towards people

Aspies generally expresses emotions through music, writings, arts and nature, instead of express the emotions towards people during socializing.


Too Quick to Jump into Conclusion due to Bottom up Thinking Process

The autistic mind are less flexible and narrower than most people. The autistic mind is not designed for top down, instead they derive their big picture understanding based on specific examples. This resulted in, they having a strong tendency to jump into conclusion just because of a few similar incidents they experienced personally. Also, because of their lack of exposure to people of different mindsets due to their social withdrawal, they don't have a strong feedback mechanism to correct their dyfunctional thinking.


Over Empathizes on Negativity and Personal Experiences

Those have negative upbringing background traits usually can grow out of those traits as they mature. However, with mind-blindness, Aspies had a hard time detecting the impact of their behavior on others, making maturing out of negative upbringing traits difficult. The following are some of the negative traits from upbringing:

• Tendency to compare and put down
• Quick to observe and point out other people’s mistakes and thinking doing people a favor
• Teasing people when people make mistake or being dumb
• Self-righteous and critical

Last edited by lammiu on 04 Dec 2013, 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dr. Attwood mentioned that it is the facial signal that we didn't pick up, so it is not lack of empathy. My personal experience is that I am very aware of my own emotion status and I have a lot of emotions inside me. But connecting with the emotions of other people, that's my challenges. On conversation that turns off people, I failed to pick up and feel that people don't want to talk on this anymore.

My therapist has to point this out for me:
If you say something to a person, the person lean back and her response becomes short and with long pause. You should stop right away whatever you're talking about and considering switching topics. It's body signal for you to know that she is not interested in talking about the topic or she is offended by what you're saying.

Interestingly enough, I can actually understand sarcasm. Maybe that's why one of the clinical psychologist who are familiar with ASD, refused to take my case because my traits are very diff from the other cases at hand. I was so disappointed because there are only 2 organisation specialised in adult ASD in HK. Luckily, my counsellor referred me to intake at the other one. I hope I get in because they have a lot of free social skills training for adult ASD in regards to career. That's exactly what I need.

Hello Lammiu! I have to say one thing, and please take it as an observation by an American looking at a different culture from the outside. It sounds like the approach by doctors and therapists to Aspergers in Hong Kong is very strict and one-sided and focuses on obeying authority: the social model of behavior is correct and anyone who doesn't conform must be retrained. It sounds a bit like the old Soviet or Chinese re-education camps for dissidents! Things are changing here in the U.S. Many Aspergers individuals (and medical people who agree) insist on being viewed as having a brain orientation that is different, not defective.

We're working hard to be accepted as we are - it's very helpful to understand how NTs want people to behave, but it's also time for them to understand the strength and beauty of our minds. Aspergers individuals contribute so much to other people's well-being through science, technology, and the arts and NTs need to recognize our humanity. We may make up a very tiny minority, but our contributions are huge and modern civilization could not have been built without us!

Ya, I agree with the accuracy of your observation. Aspies do treated like a social outcast in Hong Kong. In fact, just try to mention that in the interview, you'll be automatically rejected. I just realise that I had deep-seated hatreds embedded in my sub-consciousness for my differences because of the bad experiences in life. It's great that in US, Aspies can celebrate the differences and embrace their achievements because of the differences.

I've posted around 37 posts in WP. With my own intro respective observation + valuable feedback/response from various WP members. I realised that my posting behaviour is quite autistic even among WP people. Good to learn more about myself in this website. Thanks for everybody for your feedback and support.

Days of temperature below zero, snow, wind. Stuck in the house. I'd rather be outdoors than anywhere else. Walking out in the desert with my dogs straightens out the kinks in my brain. I just assume that nature is good for people like us, but maybe I'm wrong?

Do you think that what type of environment you live in affects your health and well-being? "Place" for me is more important than anything else. I need beautiful, peaceful surroundings to feel safe and happy. Especially wide open vistas and a big sky. I like individual trees but feel claustrophobic in a forest.

Can't speak for anyone else but I'm more at peace out of the city. I miss the convenience of being able to walk to places, but still prefer living in the countryside.

I've just been assessed aged 39 years old and told that I didn't fit the criteria for Aspergers but that I did possess some autistic traits. I had been referred to the ASD team by my psychologist and was told the result by her.
I scored very highly on the AQ test.
My wife and I were gobsmacked as we both suspected that I was...I have so many traits it's not even funny.
I waited three years for the assessment and it was very vague...I got the impression that they primarily deal with children and teenagers and weren't used to dealing with adults.
My psychologist who admitted she knew very little about ASD and almost started talking to me as if all my traits and difficulties were somehow a figment of my imagination...like I was searching for a diagnosis to wear as some kind of badge...no...I was looking for a diagnosis to provide answers as to why my life has been so difficult and to why I possess an overwhelming number of traits that correlate to being on the spectrum.
I understand that there are five elements to an Aspergers diagnosis in the UK...if you don't get five you don't fit the criteria...you then get a vague evaluation that might place you on the spectrum somewhere.
I was shocked at the time...but I have been offered CBT on my next appointment and when I go I shall request a copy of the report...I would prefer to talk to the ASD team but will have to talk to my clinical psychologist despite the fact that she appears to be as much use as a chocolate teapot.
She seems to have a complete lack of understanding with the problems I face...such as:

Black and white thinking
Social anxiety
Sensory problems
Lack of spatial awareness
Difficulty reading peoples emotions and understanding unwritten social rules
Not being able to handle the workplace an a regular job due to the bullying I've suffered in the past and difficulty maintaining interest in work if I'm not stimulated by it.

All these issues are barriers to regular employment.
I have been diagnosed with OCD and depression in the past and she herself raised the possibility that I maybe suffering from ADD as well but she maintains it will be difficult diagnosing me due to my age, history of depression and alcohol and drug abuse.
I highly suspect that I have ADD as I have the concentration span of a goldfish.
I am a talented writer but find the concentration problem so debilitating that I have been unable to write for years.
The likelihood of getting any kind of medication to cope with this problem is remote as the NHS don't like handing out stimulant drugs and drugs like diazepam due to their potential for abuse. Without a definite diagnosis it would be unlikely anyhow.
Hopefully I'll have some answers in the next few months...I won't give up.

Will

I used to live in London...loved the culture and the anonymity of living there but I found the relentless pace and the sensory overload exhausting and I coped with these issues by using alcohol and drugs.
There are some things I miss about living there...not sure I could live there now though...I live in Scotland now and love the remoteness and beauty of the countryside.
I have to have a city fix now and again though because I enjoy the art galleries and museums.

Oops! It was late night and I confused Will (UK?) and Schnozzle (Scotland?)

Hello Will: Sounds like diagnosis of Aspergers in the UK is as dysfunctional as in the U.S. I finally got an 'official' diagnosis about a week ago, quite unexpectedly. I had been looking into the possibility due to family history. During a regular appointment (a doc I've been seeing for many years) I mentioned Aspergers, and she grabbed the DSM and reviewed the symptoms. She was stunned. She changed my diagnosis from bipolar to Aspergers. It was that simple. The best part was that she suddenly saw me in a whole new light! No longer a cranky, eccentric, reclusive and socially clueless patient - my behavior was right there in the DSM. So now, I'm "okay" in some strange way, but I'm really still me. Neurotypicals. What a crazy bunch.

Re: Black/White thinking. NTs simply can't accept that our direct way of experiencing the world is legitimate. They call our literal (factual) thinking black and white thinking because they don't like FACTS. If we make a statement of fact, they think it's just an opinion. When we stick to the facts, they think we're being stubborn or defiant. In the social universe everything is negotiable, even facts, because interaction is a struggle for attention and control, not information. Most Americans do not accept that we live in a literal universe of physical laws and natural phenomena. Americans hate science and math because you can't make up the answers.

Rough couple of days. Extreme anxiety. I go along doing well, and then something just snaps. Panic mode. Almost unbearable. A meltdown, I guess. I take medication which works well for mild anxiety, but not with extreme bouts. You'd think I'd be used to these episodes after 63 years, but it gets harder to recover.

I just have to keep plugging away because there's nothing that can be done. I had to quit my last part-time job because of it. I have no family so go it alone. Besides, my family just made it worse. No sympathy; just anger and a wish that I'd go away.

I know it will always be like this, but I when I'm feeling good, I forget and start believing it won't happen so often, but it's more frequent the older I get.

It's good to have a place where I can say these things and not get hammered.

Sounds rough