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Hi to all!
I'm new here and I didn't read a lot about AS ( just the main information ). I'm from Lithuania, 18 years old. I got diagnosed not much time ago, but I'm still not sure if I have AS or not. That's truth that I don't have good friends, I'm kind of good in studies but this doesn't prove anything. I always think it's just because I'm not trying enough.
So, anyway it doesn't matter, I'd just like to comunicate with somebody from here. As I'm still not very informed about the system here and I can't chat, I'll just stay somewhere around....
good luck to allllll

Welcome to the board!

I also was not sure if I had Asperger or not when I was first diagnosed. Mainly it was because whenever I read anything about Asperger they would say how these people like to rock back and forth, or that they insist on only taking the same rout to school every day, none of which sounds like me. But when I have joined various message boards and support groups, I have realized that a lot of it doesn't apply to most people with Asperger I have encountered, either. In fact, right now my impression is the opposite: I seem to be much more severe than most other people with Asperger.

The thing I didn't understand back then, which I learned once I got to know the "real" people is that Asperger does not have a very well defined set of symptoms like, for instance, Downs would have. In case of Downs you HAVE to have a thick lips, and a certain shape of face, etc. and if you don't have any of this, that would rule it out. Asperger is not like that at all. Instead, Asperger is more like an IQ, except that it is not an intellectual IQ but more like social IQ. So, just like if in intellectual IQ you score low, it does not mean you miss every single question (in fact it would be very rare to find someone who does), in the same way, if you have Asperger's it doesn't mean you have every single symptom of it. In fact, statistically, most people with Asperger do NOT have every single symptom; they just have enough of the symptoms to be different from others.

Regarding friends, I felt the same way you do. When I was first diagnosed I used to think I am perfect at making friends and I was just choosing not to because I wanted to focus on school. Few years later, when I moved away from home, I have proven myself wrong. At that point I really wanted to make friends, and I couldn't get passed the basic "hello" to find a way to strike a conversation with a stranger whom I wanted to turn into a friend (I didn't have any friends to begin with). But, despite all that, I used to think I was good at making friends and was just choosing not to, until I tried. So I suggest you do the same. Try to approach people and make friends, and then you will know for sure whether it is part of Aspreger that makes it hard for you to do.

It's nice to meet you, Tinaaa. Welcome to the Wrong Planet Community.

Welcome to WP!

To WrongPlanet!! !

[quote="Roman"]
"Regarding friends, I felt the same way you do. When I was first diagnosed I used to think I am perfect at making friends and I was just choosing not to because I wanted to focus on school. "

This seems similar to me. I always thought only about my studies and sport (which I did for a while). And I always blamed people who are around me. They are too empty, I'm bored with all of them, nobody is keen on things which I like. My parents always forced me to make friends and sometimes I felt realy bad, I thought perhaps I should start drinking alcohol to belong together with my contemporaries... (I don't like drinking and I don't do it). Still if I drank, nothing changed...
It sometimes becomes sooo damn lonely, I hate it.

After all, even when I traveled to foreign countries with school changing program or with chorus, I couldn't understand what was wrong because I didn't make any contacts I felt terrible during those periods because I was separated and left alone.... If I could cry, I would be crying that time, but I never did....
My parents always blamed me that I'm not normal, that I'm looser... I can't reach anything in sports and I can't make any relationships. (It wasn't important for my family that I was quite good in studies)... But I wanted to have friends, just I couldn't.... Besides I'm not afraid of an eye contact, I just don't like to meet people who knows me and would like to talk to me. I think it's not the same....

I ended up with depression, bulimia and an attempt for suicide. Everybody thought I am absolutely mad as I was only strange before. Maybe all this is because I feel separeted from others?.... After a long time doctors guessed I have AS.

I can talk to people! Really! I even can start the conversation first but not for a long, my ideas finishes quickly....
And my wish to comunicate or not changes quickly too.
Thanks for sharing

Thanks for sharing! I can so much relate to everything you write. Ever since I moved away from home and changed my mind about my idea that "I don't need friends because I have to study", I was desperately trying to make friends and keep failing. I can totally hear you when you are saying how your parents criticized you for not making friends, without realizing that you really wanted to and couldn't. Since I didn't know how to start a conversation, everyone kept acting like I don't care enough to talk to them, but in my mind I kept thinking if only they knew how desperate I was to talk and make friends, I just don't know how to. So I know what you have been going through is very painful.

I can also see how it would make you depressed. In my case it didn't make me suicidal or anything like that, but still I felt like I am subhuman and if others won't bother giving me 5 minutes, why should I bother with sticking with myself for the entire life. I got knocked out of that state when I was nearly got expelled in 2006 and then, by sheer luck, managed to stay in school. That served to remind me that there is another dimension to happiness, which is my success in school, which I haven't lost. But until that time I felt quite miserable for few years.

And I agree with you on what you said about people just being too shallow. I would have much easier time making friends with people I can have intellectual conversations with. But unfortunately most people are just not into that. They want to gossip or talk about the last show they saw. And, just like you said, even if I did get a chance to talk (lets say, someone else approached me first) I would run out of what to talk about within five minutes.

Have you considering joining some meetup groups that are more intellectually oriented? I was wondering that may be that could help you, since then you won't have to drink in order to try to be on the same wavelength as others.

I don't understand if Im not capable of anything but I didn't manage to find any interesting groups for me. Just as I mentioned I tried athletics and choirus. I loved the second one but still I couldn't find friends.
What is the problem? Why can't people with AS comunicate? Smth about their mind... I don't understand.

Now I feel quite happy about my life....

One more thing. I'm not fastinated with only one thing in my life, but I respect people who are. I think this is a wonderful feature because if you cope all your potencial in one area, you are able to make the highest progress. So this is my argument why I think I don't have AS. I'm not perfect anywhere....
Ok, that's not truth, everybody is good somewhere.... More or less. But still I'm quite interested in more than one thing.

So I still can't understand if I have it or not.
Anyway, it's a small relief for me, because I don't feel such a big pressure.

Tell me, how do you spend your free time? Are you interested in only one thing? For example, it's so strange because you write very fluently and I can't imagine it's not the same with comunicating for you.

I am not an expert, but to me neither athletics nor chorus sound like a very AS things to do. Have you considered something even more intellectual, like science or history or religion? I know these might not be your interests, but there you will be able to find people who might be a better personality fit for you outside of the pursuit of the group. And then, who knows, you might actually develop an interest in one of these subjects.

A good place to find such groups is www.meetup.com While these would not be the things at your school and the people might not necesserely be students, you might have a broader choice of the groups to look at, since there will be more of them.



First of all, there is no general answer about all ppl with AS, since no two are the same. In fact, I met a lot of them on this board that do communicate, which saddens me a lot since I was told I was mild, but my experience here contradicts it.

So, since no one with AS is the same, let me just answer for myself. The reason I don't communicate is that I simply don't know where to start. I mean, if I walk up to a person and say "hi, my name is Roman", then the person might wonder why I just did it. I mean, don't people usually talk when there is a reason? But there won't be any reason to talk to unless I already know someone. So, this makes it a vicious cycle. I have to know someone in order to be able to talk, and I have to talk to them in order to get to know them.

Now, if I am very lucky and someone does approach me, then something else happens. Suppose they ask me how are you today, I say I am fine, and ask them how are they. Then they tell me what they did today in a sentence or two, and ask me and I tell them. And now I just don't see how to take it any further. The only thing I can think of is ask them questions about what they said. For instance, if they said they just went to play a certain game, I can ask them about the rules of the game. Now, tihs already looks weird. Usually when ppl talk they don't teach each other. But if I pretend that I know the rules of the game, what else can I ask? And even if I do ask about the rules of the game, after they explain, what next should I ask? So I tend to run out of topics to talk about.



I agree with you. Yet my mom won't see it and just want me to be more normal. If it wasn't for my mom I would probably have gotten my ph.d. several years ago. But my mom encoraged me to try to socialize so I ultimately got hurt which then made me disracted from my career to the whole thing of being "inferior".



Like I said before, no one with Asperger has all the traits of it. There are a lot of ppl with Asperger who don't overfocus on one interest and who are not perfect, but they still are classified as having Asperger due to having other traits.



I used to be interested only in math and physics up until I was 21, when I graduated from college.

Then after 2001 I developed other interests, which includes reading religion on the internet, dating sites, and also walking around exploring the area. Typically, walking around exploring the area one is tight up to my studying one since it is hard to concentrate when I study at the same place so I tend to look around to find different restaurants where I can sit and eat and then study the rest of the day.

So I guess you might say I am less focused than before I was 21, and I consider it a bad thing. I would rather go back to the way I was at 21 when I was totally focused on physics; I just don't know how to. But still, even my lack of focus is due to Asperger, in my opinion. Since I am always being disracted "in the same way" so you might call it a routine. Such as I feel a "compulsion" to walk a certain distance away from home until I am "allowed" to study.

What are some of the ways in which you get disracted? If these are some specific things you have no control over (such as a need to do X, Y and Z before you can focus on chorus or gym), then it might well be Asperger.



Asperger is different from autism in a way that it doesn't affect the rate at which the language (i.e. ability to use words) develops; rather it affects the STYLE of communication. In my case, you can see my Asperger comming through the posts in that I am a bit more long winded than others, and that I try to spell out every detail which others don't. Both of these are common trends of Asperger.

Now you are right in the real life I am worse. But that is because on a message board you just asked me some questions so all I have to do is answer them. But in real life people do "small talk" when they don't necesserely ask each other specific questions or bring up specific topics. They just talk as to how they are doing, and this is a hard one for me.

Hi

Last edited by Tinaaa on 01 Oct 2009, 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Well, as I said I do my studies quite good. All the subjects are almost at the same level for me. From math to languages. I still don't feel as I have a real talent in any of these spheres. I'm one of the best in my school but still I'm not good enough as they are all not interested in studies very much.
I didn't mention that I dream to become a doctor (maybe something about oncological deseases or neurological, I haven't decided yet). So, now I should concentrate on biology, chemics and lithuanian (our national language). These exams I'll have to pass.
I have participaded in some competitions such as chemics, our language and math. And I have won something in my city but not very high results and I was never chosen to compet in our state.
Maybe if I didn't such things like sport (which I hated with all my heart), I could reach something more. But my parents always forced me to do it and they have a vary bad opinion about settling in one thing in your life. In some ways I agree with them.


I looked over that site, which you recomended, and there isn't anything about bio/che around my place, even nothing in my country. I think this is quite inactive state, but not bad one .


What is post doctor researcher? It's a kind of highest studies... but in which thing? Math? Physics? Or something else? Whatever it is, I think it's top achievement.


You wrote you can't approach and tell your name. Why? I'd like someone to come and to say something to me. It would be nice, even in the local transport or city. I like to talk to people but not too much. After a while I don't want them to say anything to me because I know I should continue the conversation but I wouldn't know what to tell. It would make me feel uncomfortable. But, yes, sometimes I can not say even a one sentence because I don't know what to say... And then I feel afraid.

Anyway, you must talk to people first, then you find out whetver you have anything similar to them or they are boring to you. Everything starts from some words and then you know more and more about that person.
I understand this but still I was always left somewhere overbord, somewhere apart form everyone else. I shouldn't teach you. However, I actually don't understand what is wrong.... Maybe I just imagine that I talk? Sounds funny. I mean maybe I think I'm talking more than I do indeed....

But now something is different and once again I don't understand what... Somehow I don't feel so lonely anymore.


You should talk about things wich you are interested in. That's how you could separate people with whom you feel good. But I tink you know it because you adviced me to join intellectual groups. It's a pitty, there isn't any of them.


You talked about changing your studying place
This sounds similar to me.
I also need to change place where I study, because I feel bored of it. First I read at the table, then in my bed, then on the floar and then in my parents bed. That's like an exercisising. I'd go to restaurants if I can, but I live in a small vilage, so... I can only go outside to lie on the grass. But also only in summer.
You seem this is waisting of your time... A little bit...
I would love studying in public places because I like to watch people. Especially when I don't know them and I'm not afraid I'll have to pretend interested in things they like but I don't.
Actually, you look normal because it's impossible to have same interests and talk with everyone.
Of course,I'm not a doctor and I may be wrong.


I don't ask you any specific questions, these are just things which I'm thinking about and which I'm wondering about. I think I would tell the same in reality just slower and sometimes I'd stop because of lack what to say. Is this normal? Doctor said yes to me, everyone stops.... It's difficult..... Sometimes looks I have nothing to say...... Sometimes not..... Depends on people? I dont' know.... After all, I guess I'm different from others.




Doing routine- isn't this called obsessive compulsive? It's when you can't fight againstyour thoughts to do one or another thing. But I guess you can stop doing it so it's not that.
Doctors guessed bulimia was my routine. All what I thought about was weight, food,etc. Nothing else was interesting during that time. That was really wrong because I hurt myself. I'm happy I escaped from that.

Tell me, don't you feel waisting your time while writing to me? Because sometimes I do. At the same time I like this, but I could do something else. I'm interested how you feel. I hope it won't become one of routine forms wich you don't like.
Routine in sport or singing? There is always routine. For example, 20 min running, 20 gymnasic, 30 quick running and so on. But all people did the same routine just they were talking among each other... and I didn't.


Sorry if I'm stealing your time
Have a nice day

Don't be so tough on yourself. Not all people with Asperger are the kind of genuises you are thinking of; they are not savants! If you were winning things in your CITY you probalby have MORE special skills than most ppl with Asperger, so you can't say you are not smart enough for Asperger. In fact, most of them are simply above average, in their field, may be best out of 10, but not best out of 100. So don't worry you fit right in

And I am sorry your parents didn't want you to overfocus. That exactly describes my mom (my dad was fine with my overfocusing, but my mom was not). Her reason was that everything should be "balanced". But who is to say what the definition of "balance" is? You can't compare apples to oranges so you can't compare, say, accomplishment in humanities to accomplishment in science. The only way you can compare is draw statistics of most people, but I am not like most people.

So one thing my mom doesn't get is that being different might be a GOOD thing. She assumes that if I am different it automatically is bad. Or perhaps she thinks Asperger comes in a package so in order to "undo" the bad parts of my Asperger she should undo good ones as well by not letting me overfocus.

I am sorry your parents are that way too. Did they start acting that way when they learned of your Asperger or did they do it before then as well? I guess I am just wondering because most parents think of it as a GOOD thing if the kid overfocuses; but the parents of autistics are never part of the "most". So it seems like it is them learning that it is part of "desease" that made them change attitude, and if they didn't hear the word autism they would have encouraged you to overfocus.

So are you still in high school or in college? What level are you on? And when are your exams? And iin what area do you want to be a doctor?

Congratulations on being good in all subjects. You can poitn THAT to your parents: tell them that if you were overfocused as they think you are, how come you do well on everything not just one thing?

And no, this doesn't rule out Asperger, a lot of people with Asperger are just like you. But your parents have to learn that Asperger doesn't mean bad, it is just different.

My post doctoral reserach is in physics. Basically what it means is I already obtained my ph.d., I got it last May, and now I am doing a research that doesn't earn me any degree since ph.d. is the highest; but I am simply getting research experience in order to become professor later on. But no one is to say I would actually be one as competition to be a professor is much tougher than a post doc. In my field ppl typically need 3 post docs before applying for professorship, although it is not a rule. Technically I can apply to be a professor with less post docs, I just won't have a good chance getting the position. Well, what I am doing now is my very first post doc.

Well, most people don't approach MOST of the others they are passing by. They do approach SOME (since they all have friends) but not nearly most. So there must be something that prompted them to approach the particular ppl they did rather than others. So, unless I am similarly prompted, it feels inappropriate. But I have no idea what it is that prompts them to approach ppl.

LOL i can hear you when you say you imagine yourself talking when you don't. That happens to me a lot. If my mom is to tell me I don't have certain skills I would get mad and be SURE I have them. But in the practical situation I won't be able to do these things whatever they are. So when I rebel against my mom I imagine myself doing things that I don't.

But I doubt this applies to you though. Most people with Asperger do know how to talk, I seem to be the only one who doesn't, which makes me feel bad since it measn I am one of the most severe cases, even though Brina Siegel's evaluation said I was very mild.

Most ppl are not interested in talking about things I am interested in. And I agree, if I were to actually follow my own advise and join these intellectual groups, it might actually help me. But I am the kind of person who can't get organized and actually DO something; I might have an idea of doing it for years and never do it. Well thats what happened with these groups.

WOW so you even study in your mom's room. I would never do THAT. I certainly am not as restless when I am under my mom's nose. I might find an excuse to get out of the house so that I can wonder around and be restless when my mom doesn't see me, but I won't ever do that IN the house. Well, thank god I live far away from her and only visit her on holidays. Do you still live at home?

So since you live in a small village, have you ever wondered off to nature? Is there a lot of forest around it? Before I moved to USA at 14, I used to live in Russia. I lived close to the border of Moscow and there was a HUGE forest that started inside Moscow and then stretched far far away outside. When I was little I had a dream to walk to the other side of the forest and see whats there. I kept imaginning all kids of things on the toher side, including things like river, lake, or even ocean. But I never got to actually cross that forest. Have you ever tried anything like that where you live?

As far as you pretending to have interests that you don't, I guess I have harder time pretending than you do since I am not knowledgeable AT ALL about things unless it has some connection with my itnerest, which makes it hard for me to tlak about them. As far as you speaking slowly, I can relate to this. In my case, I usually speak fast, but very often after saying certain thing I would then want to go back and change what I said, and for a good reason: I often miscommunicate. That is probably because my mind thinks slowly, just like yours; you learned to adjust and give your mind time to think, I didn't make similar adjustment. So thats why you speak slowly while I speak fast but wrong.

I am not sure what you meant when you said "Actually, you look normal because it's impossible to have same interests and talk with everyone. "

You wrote "I don't ask you any specific questions, these are just things which I'm thinking about and which I'm wondering about."

But most of the "chit chat" doesn't involve that, does it. So thats what makes it hard for me to talk.

You wrote "Doing routine- isn't this called obsessive compulsive? It's when you can't fight againstyour thoughts to do one or another thing. But I guess you can stop doing it so it's not that. "

Asperger does have a lot of overlap with ADHD and OCD. So for that reason these are not diagnosed if it seems clear that symptoms can be explained by Asperger. The difference with Asperger and OCD is that ppl with OCD mostly focus on practical things, such as they have to check whether the door is locked a hundrid times, or wash their hands a hundrid times to make sure there is no bacteria. On the other hand, ppl with Asperger do things because they are addicted to them, NOT because they are afraid of something.

I was also obsessed over food and weight, but in my case it happened when I was 12 -- 14, which was a long time ago (right now I am 29). What age did you do this?

As far as "wasting time", I don't feel that way at all. Like I said I am very lonely due to my lack of social skills so if anything this gives me an apportunity to talk to someone. If anything it just makes me feel better than I normally do and gives me some energy to study, since finally someone talks to me.

Yes I said I had "they waste my time" attitude but it changed in 2001 when I got really hurt so I am not that way any more.

Besides, a lot of what you said (such as thikning you were normal until you get a chance to discover you are not) sounds very much like me so I want to find out if it is right or just wishful thinking. When I just learned about autism, I read some accoutns of autistics who described how great it feels to meet antoher autistic who is "just like them". I totally thought I would have the same experience when I was going to join the message board. NO WAY. Within years of talking to other aspies I never felt anyone was "just like me" in the way that they described. Sometimes they would say that sounds like me, but if I read on, I see that I merely conjectured it and it wasn't true. I mostly gave up on this few years ago, but now that I am talking to you it seems that you might be a person "just like me" so I want to keep talking to find out.

Its interesting that you mentioned that sports are routine. It makes me think that perhaps ppl with Asperger don't like routines any more or less than ppl without it. It is simply that their interests are different, and so their routines are different. And then, of course, no one would notice the routines they can relate to (such as sports) and only notice routines that "make no sense" to them (such as whatever ppl with Asperger are doing) and then blame ppl with Asperger for having routines. Thats kind of like no one notices their own stink.

You are right, I wish to be better than I am, to be more gifted. Nomatter what I reach it's never enough. It's a kind of being selfish. Anyway, most people aren't happy about what they have. Maybe only budists are different, because they concentrates on the life of the spirit.
Yeaa!! ! I fit to aspergers . But what if I just pretend to be so? What if I wish to be AS? Because as I said I'm very respectful for such kind of ppl. When I was about 8 years old, I dreamed to become a scientist and most of them are keen on one thing. Maybe I express my expectations in this way...


It's a bit different situation with my family than yours. My mum, contrary to yours, let me to choose whatever I like more than my dad. He was crasy about sport and wished me overfocusing only in there. Yes, my mum also always encouraged me to make "balance".
Before I was diagnosed with AS, they acted like this, but after my attempt for suicide they left me at rest. My dad seems afraid to tell anything to me, mum doesn't push to make friendships or paritcipate in parties which I don't like. I feel lucky of this diagnose . It seems that they understood I have to live my own life however I wish.

I feel sorry that your mum wished to bring you through AS and you waisted your time on things you feel bad. But I'm happy you are finally free from that as you live alone.
Do you live alone? Don't you sometimes feel very deppresed about this? What about other physics students? Haven't you met any friends among them?
Are you doing research on your own or in university? Do you have a job already or do you concentrate only on post doc?
So, you'll have to study 3 more years to get all post docs...
Physics, that's difficult, but cool...

I think ppl approach those to who they have what to say or with who they spend their free time.
We don't spend so much time with others, so we don't have many similar things. At the same time, for us it's more difficult to understand body language. This helps to foresee what others meant and what you should say.


I also get mad if someone depresiate me, and I wish to show they are wrong. For example, our class teacher (about 5 years ago) told another student to have best logical thinking. I felt so diminished and I didn't care she may be right. Anyway, people have different opinions and we shouldn't take it deep to heart. Another our math teacher told I have best mathamatic thinking. Maybe I don't but I'll better imagine I'm not stupid
Do you sometimes take such things deep to your heart too? It's probably called sensitivity...

I live in a village, but it's not really surounded with forests, there are a lot of trees but it's really not as forest in the tale. I'm walking everywhere around sometimes, with my dog usually. And here is a river too. I can tell you it's beautiful here and I think this would be great place for poet, there's a lot of of inspiration around. Now it's so beautiful because of autumn, colourful leaves are scattered on the ground.

In which city do you live?

You are telling me lies. If you aren't knowledgeable at all, how can you talk to me? I'm not interested in physics! And we are talking about everything just not physics...
You can always say it from the start if you feel sorry about what you said. But I understand you, because after repeating or telling something inapropiate, people start thinking you are dumb and they better choose another person.

Everything I'm writing, I'd like to say in reality. But I think talking is difficult because AS often misunderstood others as you told, and yes, they have less and different interests than most of ppl.

Bulimia continued not for a long, from 17 to 18. I'm now at this age. Sometimes I wish to go back there and to concentrate on my weight but I stop myself, because I want to have a life. It's damn difficult to think when you eat nothing normal. And I must keep my brains working whether I wish to become a doctor.

Did anyone hurt you? Or it's generally about nobody paying any attention to you?

To my mind chat or letters isn't the same as alive aonversation. I'd like you to encourage to make maybe one person with who you could study or do anything else related to your interest. Then you wouldn't feel so lonely. You should try to find ppl who are interesting to you.

I first started comunicating with ppl in eating disorder clinics. Strange, but I had what to talk about with them.... Because we were all keen on same thing, but actually this thing is empty...

You are the first with who I talk about all AS things and I didn't read a lot about others, so I can't tell whether I'm similar to them or not. I'm sure we have smth in common and it's nice to discover me more about aspergers.

I'm reading my parents bed when nobody is at home, while they are at job

Friendship develops in a very strange way. It seems you are not a friend with a person and then suddenly you start to have what to talk about. First step is to be with ppl! But not with all and not all the time (I always need to rest being alone, usually for studies or just simple reading)

Do you like going to theather? Or doing sport? Is there any interests which make you surrounded with ppl?


Byyyeeeeee!! !! Goodluck!

I attend secondary school. This may sound strange to you, but this is such an education system in Lithuania. In 2010 June I'll have my exams and it will fate my future. If everything is ok, I'd enter the university of medicine. Oh, this'd be soooo nice. I'll try my best this to happen.

Besides, my parents don't care in which subject I'm focused. They just don't want to see me at home reading all day long. They wish me to participate in public life more. I like dancing and going to some concerts but not that often and I actually don't have a lot of ppl to go with me.

Today, first after a while, my dad said "Go and watch film instead of studying. You must rest".
I hate such a kind of speech, because I start feeling guilt as a thief! Can't he just keep silence? Film is a rest?! That's ridiculous...

I had to tell someone about this accident. My conclusion is that I have my own life and it's my decission how to spend it!

That's an interesting idea about normal ppl routine, this may be true. But as I think over my sports again, I guess I was more in routine than others... I always did everything, step by step and others sometimes missed some parts. Anyway nobody was so annoyed about it as they are about studies. Many people think you are boring and cramped if you like science...

Bye!! !

I can relate to how you feel that you wish you could be better than you are. I also made my choice to be a physicist at a very early age -- in my case I was 9 years old, so you are one year ahead of me I guess over the time when I saw a reality better I had more and more realistic concepts of myself. By the time I was 14 I was totally okay with the fact that I probably won't ever catch up with Einstein; I "only" wanted to be several years ahead of school in math and physics (I learned integrals when I was 13) and I anticipated that it would be a disaster once the school/college age is over since then, by definition, I won't be able to be ahead. Then, after all tihs depression due to being rejected I ended up few years BEHIND in school -- still am since I am 29 and just got my ph.d. few months ago. So by now I am fine to be like others, just not behind. And this is something I have much harder time getting past. Especially being 29 years old. The time probably accelerated when I got older so I still tihnk of myself as much younger and it totally feels like a very bad dream. Since I just got my ph.d. only few months ago how can I possibly ever catch up with others?

I hear what you said that may be you pretend to be AS because you have respect for these kinds of people. I actually felt the same back when I just learned about my diagnosis. You see, I started a therapy back at 15, and that was when I got diagnosed. But the therapist didn't tell me about my diagnosis until I was 17. So during these two years between 15 and 17 I felt it was really amaizing whenever the therapist told me that I am good in math and physics but not with people and that I don't have the feelings that others do. It all sounded like a superman. So I decided to DELIBERATELY ask the therapist some very stupid questions about the way people operate in order to pretend not to have feelings and thus confirm an image of a superman. That was the main reason that after I learned my diagnosis I was suspecting it was wrong since the diagnosis was based on a lie. But I couldn't even ask that questio nsince I didn't want to admit I lied.

But right now I see that, ironically, it is true that I am very ignorant about people. Becuase right now I DO have a lot of questions about the way people operate that most people would probably regard as stupid questions, but to me not only they are not stupid, but it is hard to even understand answers to them when they are spelled out. So, ironically, even though in case of the therapist I was playing games, my behavior HAPPENED to be simply an exageration of who I am as opposed to pretending to be someone I am not. So with Asperger same thing: I tihnk I do have Asperger, just may be not as severe as I lead the therapist to believe it is.

As far as my family, I won't say my dad is more flexible than my mom or visa versa. They both are quite stubborn and if either of them thinks something should be this particular way they won't ever let go or accomodate, which is probably why they ended up getting divorced. As far as the education goes, the reason my dad didn't object to my focusing in school was that he didn't think that there was anything wrong with it, and I happened to agree with him in this respect. In fact, he blames my subsequent failure in education on the fact that he left back to Russia (my entire family is from Russia; in 1992 my mom moved to USA because of the job she found, then in 1994 me and my dad came over, and in 1997 my dad moved back to Russia when they broke up). I don't agree with him in TIHS respect since he doesn't know about my whole depression about being rejected which was triggered by my mom (neither of my parents know this) and my mom didn't do anything else to slow me down. But sometimes I suspect that may be my mom did do something raising me, before she moved to USA. Because I remember during the first year when we were in USA my dad told my mom in front of me that she is "standing in my way, and been standing in my way my entire life". I then kept asking both of them what it referred to, and both of them refused to answer me saying that it is "their business". Well I have interpretted it as referring to how she has been raising me.

As far as my wasting time due to beind depressed as a result of being rejected socially, well, irnoically, it happened AFTER I moved away from my mom, even though it was BECAUSE of my mom. My family is Jewish, so my mom kept trying to get me to go to Hillel, which is a Jewish club on campus, both when I was undergraduate and when I was graduate. As an undergraduate I was living with her, and I was simply refusing to go whenever she suggested by saying "I have to study". When I was graduate, due to my moving away from home, she was concerned it would be hard for me alone, so she pressured me harder to go and I agreed.

Well, at Hillel I got a lot of rejection. First of all, no one would ever talk to me. In the RARE occasions that they did, I would try to keep conversation going by asking more and more questions about what they said. Such as if they say that they are at school I would say what exact year, what exact courses they take. Not that it was so important, I simply didn't know what else to ask. So my other option would be to stare at them blankly without saying anything. Anyway, a month or two into my going there a director approached me and said that there were complaints that my conversation style is "accusitory" (well it probably referred to these questions). Also, I wanted to go to the trip to Israel that is available for free for everyone who was born Jewish, and they refused to take me there for this reason.

So I guess my mom's part in it was that she made me go there. It is like self fulfilling prophecy. My mom was thinking it would be hard for me to be alone, and she ended up being right: it is. But the reason she ended up being right is because she pressured me to go to the Jewish club, if she were to just let me do my own thing, nothing would have ever been hard.

But on the other hand, it is partly me as well. Three or four months before this whole Jewish club incident I joined a mailing list for university students with Asperger, ran by Clare Sainsbury. On that list I speculated that may be the reason jews rock back and forth during prayers is that Judaism was founded by autistic and that would also explain why Judaism has very strict rituals. I then said that Asian religions, such as Buddhism, might also be founded by autistics since Donna Williams (an autistic adult) described meditating all on her own since her very early childhood in a book "Nobody Nowhere". I then said that perhaps Jews and Asians are more predisposed to autism genetically which is why religions such as these are more tolerated in these societies. Then I poitned out that according to studies of brain size and IQ, Jews and Asians are the ones at the top. At the same time, there were also lab studies that showed that ppl with autism have larger brain size than average. So this perfectly correlates with Jews and Asians being autistic.

Anyway, quite a few ppl were upset at that post, especially at the fact that I mentioned brain size, since this theory is famous for saying that blacks have small brains and, therefore, in America anything related to this is considered a taboo topic. So then the mod asked me to publically apologise for making that post, and warned me that I would be banned if I wouldn't. But since I was under the wrong idea that I don't need friends and I don't care about other people's opinions of me, I decided that it would be a good thing for me to be banned, since I was addicted to that mailing list and it interfered with my studies. So i actually responed back with a rather rude email how "there is no point of appology for being an honest scientist" which resulted in my being banned.

But one tihng I didn't consciously KNOW is that I actually liked that mailing list from the friendship point of view, even though I thought that I only signed up in order to study Asperger. But unfortunately I didn't realize how much I liked it until a couple of months after I was banned. When I just joined that list I was greated very warmly, and I haven't been getting that kind of greatings for a long time. But I guess I didn't really know that I liked it until I after I was banned since I didn't have an apportunity to "miss it".

The other thing is that, there was a girl on that list who was at Stanford, which was just across the bay from Berkeley where I went to school (it was still my last year undergrad) and she contacted me since I was the only person who had Asperger who lived close to her. And when I wanted to talk to ppl about their symptoms she described a lot of similar things to what I experienced (although looking back I am not so sure it seems that I just liked her and so I WANTED to think she was similar to me which is just my way of liking ppl). So anyway, when I was banned I was also attacked for some of the suggestions I told her on how to improve her socialization in the very same email in which I was attacked for the "racist" ideas, because my well meaning suggestions were interpretted as my "telling her to think before she speaks" and that I should "follow up my own advise".

So basically the fact that they brought up that girl while attacking me is what really hurt me. If they were to "only" attack me for the racist thing I won't care; in fact I probably would feel proud that I am more open minded than others. But when they attacked me for talking to someone I liked, it made it feel like a slap in the face. So that is why i became very sensitive to being attacked later on, since it reminded me of the way I was attacked for talking to that girl. But again, it took two months for me to be fully hurt over that as well. Right after I was banned I felt euphoric rather than hurt because FINALLY my mailing list addiction problem was solved and I was finally free to focus on my schoolwork. Besides, I also felt proud of my theory and that I was more open midned than most ppl on a list.

I guess the way it switched was that, a couple of months later, I was graduating. I then decided to give myself a "graduation present" by joining that mailing list under a false name. They had a policy that when someone joins that list they send them a list of introductions of other members. They didn't send it to me because the owner of a list had a bad experience of me on the other message board where I was talking about "performng experiments" on a severely autistic kid at my school (I went to regular school for normal kids, but in America regular schools have "special education" class where they have disabled kids, so I ran onto that autistic kid during lunch). So the mod didn't email me intros since she was prepared that I would be banned any time. So I then decided to "give myself a present" by joining the list under false name and getting the intros.

Well, after joining that list I wrote my own intro, and in that intro I wrote a long description about the way I was constantly bullied for my differences when I went to school back in Russia. Then the mod immediately recognized my writing style and banned me. It felt like a slap in a face: I just wrote a long email about my vulnerabilities (how I was hurt) and then I was attacked for that very email. It kind of felt similar to the way I was attacked for writing social skills suggestions to that girl since both involved my feelings, so one reminded me of the other. And then I ended up obsessing over that list for the next several months.

But then I sat down and told myself: "Roman, what is the probability that one of the thousands of mailing lists you happened to have ran onto is the BEST place in the entire earth? Probalby very small; the only reason you idolized that mailing list is that you don't have any other social network; so why not follow your mom's suggestion, go to Jewish club, and you will end up liking it just as much as mailing list". So the mailing list was basically why I listened to my mom and went to Jewish club. That was a mistake. If only I told my mom "no I won't go to Jewish club I have to study" as I did the past few years, I won't have been hurt the way I was. After all, whatever happened on a mailing list did NOT tell me I had a problem with social skills; after all, I knew the post was going to be offensive and I CHOSE to post it anyway. The only way I learned about my social skills problem is by trying to "fix" what happened at the mailing list by joining a Jewish club. So instead of fixing it I made it ten times worse.

I am doing research not at the university but at a research institute (it is Raman Research Institute, in Bangalore). It is somewhat like university in a sense that there are some people who do their graduate work there, although there are no undergrads. But they don't offer any classes, so the graduate students that are there have to take their classes at a different school, which is Indian Insitute of Science. The reason these two schools are affiliated is that the founder of this institute, Raman (after whom the insitute was named) used to be a physics professor at the Indian Institute of Science. While he liked his own physics department, he wanted to have an institude devoted exclusively to physics and exclusively to research. So he founded this other institute and then quit his position at Indian Institute of Science and became professor at the institude he founded.

It is a good question why I don't mingle with students. I guess I just have my own routines, such as having to go to restaurants to study as opposed to studying in the office, or that whenever I am on campus all I do is check internet. So these things are not very compatible with talking to ppl around. If someone would try to talk to me right when i am at the computer typing (which actually happened yesterday) I would feel very awkward and back off. I also feel a bit awkward around them in general since most of them study at their offices and not at the restaurants. I guess in my mind I simply ruled them out as potential ppl to socialize so I weren't really bothered by them not talking to me, as long as I make sure to not meet them. I had the same attitude back in the USA. But I guess I feel better about it once I am in India since right now due to cultural differences I am not particularly interested in being friends with them anyway, so I don't have the kind of feeling I had in USA when I felt that I was trying and failing. Right now I am officially "not trying".

No I don't have a job, I concentrate on post doc. It seems more than 3 years if I go with the program. I mean most ppl have three postdocs and the postdoc that I am doing now is 2-3 years all by itself (most ppl spend 3 years rather than 2). But one thing I am hoping for is tihs: since most post docs take only a year, perhaps they can view my position here as two or three postdocs, so I can apply to be a professor right after I am done? Officially speaking that is allowed so I don't even have to make any special case. In fact, officially, you can be a professor right after getting ph.d. without doing any post docs at all. It is just not very practical since you haven't been around a lot and they haven't heard about you a lot. So what I am hoping is that perhaps a postdoc that lasts three years rather than one year would give me an apportunity to be "heard a lot" since I have three years worth of time to go to conferences and make various publications. But of course there is no way to predict whether or not it would work until I try and see.

My bigger concern is that sheer competition that everyone faces when it comes to applying to professorship. My mom said that she talked to one of the professors in University of Minnesota (the school where I did my master's) and he said there was just one opening with 300 candidates. So this makes me wonder how can ANYONE realistically expect to be the best out of 300. I been asking this question to different people. One answer I get is that there are other schools where the competition is smaller. But when I ask exactly what is that smaller competition numerically, they say it is 1 out of 50. Well, this is still very unrealistic. I can't count on being best out of 50 just like I can't count on being best out of 300.

The other answer they give me to this question is that people apply to more than one school. But when I ask how many, they say may be a dozen. But again, what is the probability you will be best out of 300 if you apply to only 12 schools rather than 300. Now, I won't be able to apply to 300 schools even if I wanted to, since only few schools have openings each year. And besides, even if I could apply to 300 schools, whether I get in is not a drop of a coin; it actually depends on how good I am. So, if I am the best out of 10, one of the 300 schools has to be totally insane in order to decide I am best out of 300. The other answer I get is the personal connections, so if I get to personally know someone at some other school, that person might be "totally insane" and take me. But this goes back to my Asperger and that it is hard for me to even casually talk to ppl, let alone make this kind of connection.

But I guess one hope I have in this respect is that my area of research is one of the LEAST known approaches to quantum gravity, known as "causal set theory". While there are thousands of people working in various other areas of quantum gravity (particulary string theory), only 20 professors work in causal set theory, worldwide! Now, of course if you count their students and postdocs it would be more than 20, but still the number is very small. So in light of this I have more of a chance to make connections with these ppl and be known. Perhaps I will be 1 out of 300 because none of the other 300 candidates do causal set theory.

On the other hand, however, these specific professors would be just ONE person in school. So if everyone else at a given university doesn't care that much about causal set theory, besides just one person, I won't have much chance getting in. So for that reason I have to broaden my research scope and research other things as well. Right now I have perfect apportunity to do that since, as a post doc, I am considered to be qualified to supervise myself and come up with my own ideas of what to do. So I can, if I want, decide to do something non-causal-set even though I was admitted here because of a professor who works in causal sets.

However, whatever I do, I want to continue working on causal sets, while other tihngs might be something I do in parallel. The reason is that, due to the fact that only 20 ppl have been working on the field, not much have been done. As a result, I decided to say that they are all wrong and do it my own way. This would give me an apportunity to have a mini-fulfillment of my childhood dream of being famous since, at least, I would be famous within the causal set community, even though the community only consists of 20 people. This would also be the other way of being one out of 300. But again, most people who don't care about causal set theory don't know ANYTHING about it, so they wont know who is famous there, either. In this case, again, I would have to do something else in order to increase likelihood of getting in somewhere.

I guess one of the difficulties I have with Asperger is that I can't do several projects at ones because whatever I am doing would take up the whole day, and I don't have enough will power to say "okay I will stop doing project A at 3 PM and then start doing project B after that". So the way I plan on doing causal set theory in parallel with other tihngs is probably through alternating the projects. So the project I do right now is causal set theory and I stick to it until I completely done. Then I send it over to the journal. And then, while I wait for referee's response, I can start another project on something else.

But how do they know what they have to say? I mean, when they make a decision whom to approach, they havne't approached a given person yet; so how do they predict that the given person will have a lot in common once they do approach that person?



Are you saying that if I could read body language better I would simply know who have the same interests as me and thus approach them before they say a word? Also, if I knew body language better, would I have been able to pick out the times when it is appropriate to approach ppl and when no one would be surprised why I approached them? And do you think due to my own body language I give off signals I am not to be approached?



Yes I was that way in a third grade. In school I went to they had a student council composed of students of all grades and I always wanted to be selected there. They had a policy that students can nominate other students for that election. Well, I was one and only student who was always nominated myself. But one person was all that was required to nominate so my self-nomination was all that mattered. I actually got some votes, which is amaizing since I know a lot of students were looking down on me due to my Asperger and were teasing me. I also remember one instance when there was a competition about who writes a better poem and then ppl were voting. I actually became the SECOND best. And I was very mad at them taht I was a second and not the first. I actually believed it meant I did poorly, and my mom couldn't perswade me that being second is a good thing. But I guess I just grew out of these things as I got older. Right now I would don't even mind being 10-th as long as I am on a better half. Thats why I am so scared of one out of 300 competition. Back when I was little I won't have ACCEPTED a thought that I am NOT one out of a million, so I won't have any of these concerns with the competition.



That is something I have been told all my life actually. Back in Russia, even in the third grade when I thought that "I don't want to learn math because I want to be a physicist and not a mathematician", the teachers were still noticing that my mathematical thinking is very good. It was also evident to some of my mom's friends when I was at a pre-school age. I started to actually go ahead of the program only when I was 12, which was much later. So I learned trigonometry at 12 and I learned derivatives and integrals at 13. This means that I was probably 2 or 3 years ahead of Russian program. But when I moved to USA it all magnified twice. Russian education is two years ahead of American education, so most ppl comming from Russia are ahead once they are in USA. In my case these two things added together so I was 5 or 6 years ahead. My taking classes in college while I was in high school was actually a suggestion of a teacher who was totally impressed with my work.



Yes, but only after mailing list + jewish club incidents. You see, if I was called "selfish" before these two, I would consider it a compliment since, being selfish means I don't care about "sensitive" things such as other ppl's feelings, in other words it makes me "strong". I guess my attitude changed because they attacked my vulnerable spots when they called me "selfish" on a mailing list. So ever since that time I no longer associated it with being strong and instead felt like a victim every time I was called that.



No that wasn't a tale. It was a real forest. But since I was little I didn't know what is on the other side, so my fantasies about rivers or oceans on the other side of the forest were tales.



Wow this makes me so jealous. By the way I notice your profile says you are from Luthwania, and it is close to Russia. Have you been to Russia? Do you speak Russian? It makes me really miss Russia when i hear the nature you describe. In USA I been to California (where I did high school and undergrad and where my mom lives), Minnesota (where I did my masters) and Michigan (where I did my ph.d.). Michigan is the only place with the forest, but I didn't go there much, probably because of too much dramma in school.

On the other hand, in California there were a lot of hills, with some trees but not nearly forest. One of the photographers who was a very close friend to my family (he was a son of my mom's first landlord, her first landlord was a great chellow teacher and her son was a great photographer, and he was also a great climber and his wife was a pilot; but he and his wife died in a plane crush while his mother died because of her old age) considered these hills to be the most beautiful ones in the earth -- and he travellled the globe. But I guess even though he is an expert he was probably influenced by nastalgia since that was the place he was raised. And, for that reason, I don't consider that to be the best place in the world since I miss Russian nature to some extend. Yes it is very beautiful, but not something I can relate on personal level, if you know what I mean.



I was raised in Moscow, Russia. When I moved to USA I lived in Berkeley, California. Then when I did my Masters I was living in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and when I did my ph.d. I lived in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Right now I do post doc in India, and I live in Bangalore.

I must say that the place I live right now is the WORST one I can think of. Just too much cars, too much traffic, too small sidewalks, or sometimes none at all, too much garbage on the streets, dogs all over the place and I am scared of dogs (I was bitten when I was little). The rickshaw drivers constantly try to rip me off and ppl on the street constantly ask me for money. It is like they think that since I am white I am not a person and my only purpose is to give them money. And also I don't have the usual utilities I took for granted in USA, for instance there is no laundary and I have to pay someone to hand wash my clothes, and also if I want to take a shower I should either take a cold one, or wait until the water heats up.

The good part though is that I don't feel as "rejected" since I don't particularly want to talk to any of them. So this helps me to focus on my studies and just look forward to my second postdoc which I would do in some western country. But, on the other hand, I feel more and more lonely and just want to talk to some westerner who speaks fluent English.



Well we were mostly talking about my life and yours, so I don't have to be knowledgeable about anything else, as long as I payed attention to my own life as well as the things you write.



Sometimes I do, but most ppl don't accept that since it sounds like making excuses.



I am the same way, I am also much better at writing than speaking.



I understand what you mean. Isn't it kind of the same thing as being obsessed over other people's disapproval. Both would keep one in a way of thinking, whether it be my thinking aobut physics or your thinking about medicine. Although I would definitely want to go back to when I was younger INCLUDING the time when I was obsessed about eating. Somehow back then I had a skill NOT to let anything non-academic to interfere with my studies. Yes I was thinking about food all day, and yet that was the very time when I learned derivatives and integrals within one short year and became so much ahead of the program. Right now I don't have that skill. If there is ANYTHING that upsets me now, it would guarantee to ruin my studies. I so much wish I would go back just to see myself younger and no longer wrory about being 29 and only starting my first post doc.



When I went to high school ppl bullied me a lot. It was especially bad in Russia, where I been up until 8-th grade. Then when I moved to USA it was not nearly as bad because in USA they have harsher discipline than in Russia in general, at least harsher than the specific school I went to in Russia. However, once I started college, in 1998, it completely stopped. There is no such thing as adults hurting me for having Asperger.

Now the funny thing is that back in high school none of their actions ever upset me because back then I was all into physics and was thinking that I don't care about anything else. I started to care only after mailing list and Jewish club, at 2001, and that was when I started graduate school. So, the way I was ACTUALLY hurt is through ppl ignoring me rather than actively hurting me.



I totally agree with you that it is not the same as conversation. I guess it is better than nothing. Plus ppl around me are all Indians, so this would not be exactly what I want either. But I can try to socialize more. At least I have an excuse: I want someone to proof-read the paper I am about to publish.



If I was in USA right now I would take what you have just said and find some meet up for people with Asperger. But I don't think things like that exist in India.



I suggest you read Donna Williams' books "Nobody Nowhere", "Somebody Somewhere" and "Like Color to be Blind". It was her autobiography: the first one was childhood, the second was her teenage years and the third was adulthood. I especially liked the first one. I guess I liked the fact that she started off with very little real people or places and a lot of her own emotional experience and imaginary friends. So this totally destroyed my previous idea that autistics don't have feelings. Then, later, probably well into the book, she mentioned how her emotional experiences made her do certain things that HAPPEN to match what autistics are supposed to do. Then I realized that autistic ppl are not like "robots" programmed to do certain things, which was the impression I got when I read more professional books on the subject, which was the very reason I questioned my own diagnosis. But once I read Donna Williams' book I realized that autistics have inner experiences too, and some of them were the ones I could relate -- in particular the one when she described that after she met Carol she felt that she WAS Carol -- I had that sometimes when I was younger, particularly with ppl I liked.



Is it the same kind of thing as falling asleep that you can't exactly know WHEN you felt asleep, and if you try to track it down, then you simply would stay awake the whole night?



As far as sport goes I like running. This is actually what brought me friends when I was in my last year in high school when I joined running team. I was very popular because I was the top runner. But that was NOT because I was good; rather it was because my team was bad -- the team was the second from the end out of like 20 or 30 other teams. I had the idea of doing the same thing when I just came to Michigan. But then I looked up on Michigan's records and saw that their team was actually very good, so I decided it won't be a good idea to go there since I am so used to being a "top runner" that not being the top will probably make me want to avoid ppl whom I would imagine to look down on me, which would ruin my whole goal of making friends. As far as now, I am sure they don't have anything like that in India. It is a very small institute designed only for physics research, it doesn't have any sport teams attached to it.