We need an ignore button!

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Having an ignore feature doesn't necessarily mean letting problems continue instead of taking care of them. It means if I have an issue with one board member which isn't something that should get them banned, I can choose to not see their posts. It means if I want to continue reading the message board and not see someone's posts, while waiting for the moderators to look into something, I can choose that. (It's not like when we PM a moderator about an issue they always read it instantly and take care of it instantly.)

Exactly. In fact I think that qualifier used about how you should report it but that doesn't mean that they'll do anything is a prime example. Most people who are afraid of being accused of deserving bullying aren't going to get up their nerve to report it when most likely nothing will be done even if they're not told they deserve it.
And despite the disruption it causes, it seems to be allowable to use AS as an excuse not only to say nasty things, but to say the same nasty things repeatedly after being told that it's upsetting other people.
(It seems slightly better since I put the thing about how to ignore messages from nasty people into my sig, but I only just did that, so it could be a fluke. Not to mention that I'm spending less time here since I found another aspie forum that doesn't have the same policy of choosing to look the other way on bullying.. and apparently WP has quite a reputation for exactly that.)

The qualifier was made in the effort to make clear that what bothers someone may not be against the rules; that doesn't mean that a response or reaction is not appropriate, either. Allowances are made for the challenges faced by those on the spectrum, but that is not license to act inappropriately. Importantly, without feedback from the members it is impossible for every message to be addressed, much less be interpreted in multiple ways to find possible problems. You allude to a reputation for bullying; I wish you would share more, as this is something I am not aware of... but it is disheartening that instead of choosing to be an active participant in doing something about it, you have chosen to absolve yourself of the responsibility.


M.

That's true, but bullying is subjective. You can't just make a rule that say "no bullying," since the bullies would then whine that you were bullying them.

Since there's no easy way to report offensive messages here, I think you just can't see it. Most people just don't have the confidence to defend to a moderator why they find something offensive.. and the ones who do may be the bullies. The reporting process involves phrasing correctly exactly what the problem is, since we can't specifically report a post.

On another forum, I've heard lots of weirdness about people being banned from WP and having no idea why, or even being banned without having posted. There is apparently a policy that you need no reason, but that policy, which ends up leaving people feeling bullied by the moderation team. There's one thread on another forum that's fairly specific about somethings, but I'm not sure if it would cause any problems do reference it directly.

I know for the privacy of people who do inappropriate things, you can't discuss whether or not anything has been done about problems that have been reported, but when we don't know if behaviors have been deemed inappropriate, it leave it open ended. When I report something, I don't know if moderators agree that it's problematic and will do something to make it stop, or if I'm constantly at risk for the same stuff. It makes WP a bit uncomfortable.

I chose to be an active participant in doing something about it by making this post in the first place. I've recently been in contact with several moderators about these issues. It's exhausting. I come here to be able to talk, not to constantly defend myself. If I have to be on the defensive every time I post something here, what's the point?

The world isn't black and white; it would be much easier if rules were absolutes, but reality necessitates flexibility. The rules don't state no bullying, but they are clear about insults, attacks, and use of language. By reporting something, it puts the issue in front of multiple individuals who then make an assessment and act accordingly.

I would welcome the resource about complaints; if you would PM me the thread, I'd be glad to read it. Remember, though, that in these situations there is often only one side of the story available... and one must remember that it will be inherently biased. To my knowledge, users are not banned without cause - there may well be much more to the story than is being revealed. Member privacy is paramount; at the same time, I try to deal with issues publicly so that: I won't have to repeat the conversation, and that it is clear when a situation has been dealt with. No moderation approach is going to satisfy everyone, but I do feel that those here make the attempt to listen to situations and react accordingly.

On a busy day, I get less than a handful of PMs from members who have specific complaints or issues that need to be addressed. When I find something questionable, I often solicit the input of another moderator or member to get their impression of the situation so that my own biases and sensitivities are not overruling the necessity of propriety and fairness. Given the amount of complaints I find in the forums, I find the difference rather staggering.


M.

The thing is that there's no easy way to report things. Most forums have a "report post" button right on every topic or post; WP lacks this for some reason.
Part of it has nothing to do with things that actually happen on these forums. Most people here have been bullied and have had problems reporting the problems. It's embarrassing, or you don't want to explain why it hurts so bad, or you just can't put it into words, or you've been told it's your fault. Almost everyone here has issues going back to childhood that make it difficult to directly speak to somebody when there are interpersonal problems like that. If there were a "report post" button that popped up a menu option or dialog box for why the post was being reported, I'm sure you'd be getting a lot more reports. But as it is, you're asking a group of people who, by definition, have social problems, to not only recognize who is causing the problem, but feel confidant enough to send a message to someone in a position of authority and explain the entire situation. It's extremely difficult. I am bringing up these issues and you're saying that I'm "absolving myself of responsibility" and "not choosing to be an active participant." That's extremely disheartening, and doesn't exactly help others to speak up either.

A report post button would be helpful; as I am not tech-minded, I'll have to ask others better skilled if that is possible.

When someone chooses to complain publicly but at the same time does not act to change the situation, then it is disheartening when there are avenues to correct such problems. I make mistakes constantly; if I didn't, I wouldn't learn. No one gets in trouble for reporting a concern... I think if we were all more responsible for each other and our environment, we'd be a little better off.

Long story short, there is an option to ignore users if needed; there is a need for members to communicate with moderators; there are functions that could be added to the site that would help some members. Does that summarize the whole of the conversation? Sorry for being terse, but this is rambling on and I want to be certain I retain the gist.


M.

This is true. However, when someone can mention in their introductory post on another site that they were banned from WP and get multiple welcomes from the staff of that site and from other people who were also banned from WP, or who left because friends of theirs were banned--and that other site is not in complete chaos--it's hard to figure out how those bans could have had reasonable cause.


I believe those features are built into phpBB, they're just not activated on WP. Since the greasemonkey script that allows the ignore feature is for phpBB forums, WP must be using that system.
I think the gist is that communication between members and the moderation team needs to be a bit easier/smoother. Taking the initiative to write a PM to a moderator about a problem, figuring out what to say, how to word it, how to express it, when to write a message, are skills that most people here lack. I get the feeling I'm being offensive with what I'm saying here, but I'm also not sure if I'm saying the right things, so I guess I keep babbling hoping I'll get to what it is that I mean. But you said you wanted to hear about the issues, so.. I'm trying to put it into the right words.
I guess I'm babbling too much and not saying it concisely enough.. My excessive explanations may be counter-productive to making my point.. I'm just not good at saying things correctly the first time, so I kinda have the tendency to try to repeat what I meant in different words in the hopes that somebody will be able to combine the different things I said into one more concise/cohesive explanation. (In my defense, sometimes people do manage to do that. Frequently I'll write five paragraphs about something and then someone else will come along, read it, and put what I meant into a couple of good sentences that make sense. Then I reply to them and say "Yes! Exactly! That's what I meant!")

Maggiedoll,
Have you been bothered by the people you reported to me? The mod team doesn't talk about what we do when someone complains. There are no reported consequences. It just stops.
Has it stopped for you?
The proof that our moderation style works is in the results. I hope you will continue to PM the mods when you feel uncomfortable.

Merle

I cannot speak for others or other sites; sometimes, there are just better fits for people. Again, I'd welcome the opportunity to learn more if you decide to share with me. Sometimes people change and mature, and if that is the case then I am thankful they had the opportunity to do so.

Again - I am not on the technical side, so I would refer that question to Lau or another moderator as the majority of my experience with such platforms date from the days of WWIV, Telegard and MBBS. I don't think there is an expectation that one knows how to express their concern; if I have questions, I will certainly ask. But without even knowing there is an issue, how can one effectively respond to it?

I do appreciate you continuing to talk, because it does help me to refine my understanding. As I tell my students, I'm going to throw 40,000 things at you and expect 40 to stick - the rest just needs to start becoming familiar so we can grow into it. So immerse me, and we'll see where we go. I can say that as a team, we do try to work together, reach agreement and act quickly and fairly to situations as we are able to... I'm not perfect, but I do make the effort.


M.

Yes, it has, and I'm grateful for that.
One reason I'm saying more about the whole thing is that after I started this thread, I got a PM from another member thanking me for mentioning these things, and explaining that she'd been taking a break from WP for the reasons I'd brought up in my post. (And also about having been bullied in an aspie group where the bully got away with it because they were sneaky, so leaders didn't want to do much.)
That was separate from the member who PMed me at the time of the problem that I'd had.

So I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you stopped my problem, but there seem to be other people having similar problems that don't really know what to do about it or how to approach somebody to get help with it.


Exactly. Which is why it'd be nice if there were and easier, kinda more clear-cut way of reporting problems.. most forums have a "report" button on posts, so people can specifically report the offensive material without having to do quite so much initial explaining. So then you'd receive a copy of what it was that was offensive along with the report, and could ask them if you had a question about it, but people might feel more like the upsetting post was making their case for them, so it wasn't like they had to message a moderator and prove what was going on.. Hmm.. I think I'm kinda talking in circles here.

[I'm not sure if on forums with an ignore feature it gives statistics about who has been ignored by whom, but if it did, that would give a way for people to avoid seeing messages they find offensive, let moderators know about it without so much personal approaching, and less of a feeling of getting someone in trouble/being a tattletale, because what they'd actually be doing would just be avoiding the upsetting posters, but it would also give the moderation team a resource, if someone does feel the need to approach them about someone's behavior, to see if that person was upsetting a lot of other people too. Does that make sense? (So then if you get a report from somebody complaining that they find another member offensive, you'd be able to see if half the regular posters have that person on ignore already, or if it might be something personal between those two people.)]

Have you done a survey? Or is it most forums you've visited?

Most forums I've visited do not have this feature, and I've no reason to think your experience is more representative of the world at large than mine. Yes, I've seen the feature. But it's not common, in my experience.

There are multiple versions of php, and I think not all have all the same features.

Yes, most forums I've visited. I haven't done a survey, and they may not be representative. That actually didn't really occur to me. *scratches head* I poke around online, meander through various forums, and rarely see any that don't have report and/or ignore options. And of course, unless I need to report something and there is no report option, I might not notice when a forum doesn't have it. It's something I'm used to seeing.

(And I receive another PM this morning from another member saying they've had similar problems and also wanted report and/or ignore buttons. I KNOW it's not just me. Hopefully people are PMing mods about it too.. 'cause while it lets me know that I'm not totally nuts, it doesn't let everyone ELSE know that I'm not completely crazy.. I think a lot of people are afraid people will get pissed if they say anything.. or don't want to attract attention.)

If the meaning of anti-social would be to mean: dislike of social situations, then most aspies would fit that. Really, the mean ones are ticked off for some reason and vent at random people like a manager or Wal-Mart customer does to the employees. It's not that they intend to be trolls, it's just that they are.

Seriously though, I'm sure I would be ignored because I'm rather argumentative at times, and most people don't like that. Also, the zero respect for people who don't earn it, such as most forms of management, and the disregard for authority makes me extremely popular with people in control.

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That's not anti-social, that's asocial.
When I say antisocial, I mean people who display traits similar to antisocial personality disorder-- sociopaths. They're people have complete disregard for the rights of others. They're usually good with social situations. They manipulate others to get what they want, and don't care who they hurt. They tend to be great liars. They read people very well, and use it to their own advantage.



Now that's a good description of most people on here. If people on this forum didn't want to talk to other aspies, they wouldn't be here in the first place.
I'm talking mainly about the people who are intentionally saying things to hurt people and then turning it back around and acting like they're the victims. The specific problem I had has been dealt with, but it happens a lot, because most people here are awkward and don't really know when they've caused offense, so it's easy for bullies to make it look like their victims were actually at fault-- there was a thread about that in the haven. (it wasn't a thread specifically about it happening here, but just about it happening in general.)
I don't think most people here would be quick to just ignore somebody because there was a disagreement about some topic. There are just a lot of people who have had problems and don't know how or don't feel comfortable just speaking to a moderator about it.
I don't think those personality characteristics you mentioned would make you unpopular on here..