I am rather displeased with the new section

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I sort of feel that aspergers has been pushed aside like with this new DSM coming out, I am nether Bipolar or Schizo, I was misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder in the mid 90's
before getting a second opinion. Now I have nothing against these other disorders, I have a younger sister who is bipolar and a cousin who is schizophrenic, but I also have a
nephew and several cousins on the spectrum. Anyhow I feel this change does nothing but alienate members with ASD's who are here because of autism, there are other forums
that are run as multiple disorder sites such as psychforums Wrong Planet is about ASD, I feel this muddles the view of what this site is about, I would hope as long as this site doesn't
change its focus with these other psych issues, by having them stay as possible co-morbidity issues.

p.s.
When I first saw the new boards this is what I said to myself."Way its going they will need a full time team of psychiatrist mod's to pull psych duties."
I know its not a nice thing to have said, but I am sure others may of had the same thought

I've got to say, as a "mentally ill person" (comorbid schizoaffective bipolar) who also happens to be aspie, I'm rather offended by your comments. You don't feel safe if people who happen to have mental illnesses are free to post in their own subsection? What, if I may ask, do you find so dangerous about me?

I do think that the forum you're discussing will be used mainly by aspies and auties with comorbid conditions, and as a neurologically complex individual I'm happy to find a safe place online where I can talk to others in the same, or a similar boat. Many neurotypicals feel that aspies and auties are dangerous... it's sad to see someone on the spectrum displaying the same prejudice against those who suffer from psychological disorders. The other forum will be well and appropriately moderated, I'm sure, and I doubt very much that there's going to be a sudden influx of "dangerous" mentally ill people coming to the site. Simply, those of us on the autistic spectrum with comorbids now have a place where we can feel at home.

Comorbids do seem to be quite common. I'm looking forward to see if a discussion about cyclothymia starts up on there as it seems very likely I have that in addition to Asperger's and some ADHD issues. For those that don't know - cyclothymia is a very much milder form of bipolar. It is often considered to be a personality trait rather than a neurological condition.

I personally have nothing at all against bipolar, schizophrenic etc people, I was one of them myself ( mood disorder/hypomania and depression, and some brief psychotic episodes, for a few years until I found out that a gf diet could cure it ).

But I think that there is a quite controversial/challenging aspect to this invitation ( which specifically says "with or without autism" ) because it blurs the already confusing line between life-long disorders which can be seen as differences and shorter term or temporary ( and often curable ) disorders which it is difficult to see as anything other than illnesses. And yet it's a "line" which this site itself promotes/insists on; see slogan at foot of page: "Aspergers is not a disease".

Does alex still believe that? And if he does, why does he want to invite people with mental illness/diseases to share this space? Does alex want to group autism, aspergers, dyslexia, apraxias, PDD, NVLD, etc etc etc with illnesses/diseases, with transient or curable mental conditions?

Most people with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder and schizoid personality and psychosis ( of whom I have been one ), are, or at least "feel", ill and most of them, ( if they are not dangerously unconscious of their condition that is, as I was for a couple of years for instance ), want to stop feeling and thinking like that; they want to "get better", they want it to stop.

Does alex think that it is a good idea to specifically invite people to join WP who are not on the autism spectrum, people whose schizophrenia etc is not a comorbid ( with AS ) condition nor a ( past ) misdiagnosis ... people whose neurological difference is purely an illness ( in the generally accepted sense of the term ) ... when one of the foundation stones of this site is that our neurological "difference", aspergers/autism, is not, is not a disease?

The only argument that I can come up with to justify this new forum is if alex has actually begun to think that autism may be the result of so many different genetic and environmental factors, different etiologies, some of which could be reversed in childhood etc, others later in life, ( partially anyway ), others not, that in a sense manic-depression, schizophrenia, psychosis, etc are no different ... they are all the product of various genetic and environmental factors, some reversible in childhood, some later, and some not at all.

In which case what happens to the distinction which this site's slogan refers to, ( "Aspergers is not a disease" )? What does it mean? What is the difference between disease/illness and what we are/have, our "difference"?

Does alex no longer believe that that distinction matters?

Is he simply interested in sheltering/supporting and gathering together all those whose biochemical and neurological make-up dis-enables/disables them ... whether it is for a short while or for a lifetime?

Is there in fact any difference between illness/diseases like psychosis, schizophrenia, etc and disorders/differences like autism? If so, what is it? ... And if not what does the WP slogan mean?

Edit. PS. Of course if alex decided to edit out the sentence "with or without Autism" none of this would apply. It is that sentence and that alone which I think sets up the controversy.
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I think it is great that people wit Tourettes and ADHD now have a board. Also I think it is unlikely that people who are non-autistic but have mental illnesses would come to an autistic board. And even if they do, I am not bothered.

I agree with this post.

I don't think that the probability that very few people "without autism" will see or respond to this new forum is a very sound argument in its favour. I don't think that it's ever a good idea to justify or play down the importance of some change by saying that very few people will take advantage of it. Thin ends of wedges etc.

I'm thinking that the only way I can understand the creation of this new forum, ( if it really is intended for people "without autism" aswell as those "with" ), is if alex's intention is to extend the umbrella of "non-disease" to bipolar, schizophrenia, and other such mental states, in the same way as WP did from the start to aspergers and autism. ie. that alex really does hope that this forum will attract a great many people with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia etc who refuse to accept the socially constructed label of disease/illness, who believe that their schizophrenia or whatever is in fact "just" a difference which society currently excludes/disables and discriminates against, in the same way as it does autism, and that the pain/hardship that they experience is not inherent in their mental state/neurological functioning but is the result of a non-adaptation of society to their difference.

In other words, irrespective of whether a "condition" is lifelong or short-term, "disease" is only in the eye of the "beholder", the way in which society reacts to it. The question that the creation of this new forum then raises is "what is disease, in fact?". Why do we see schizophrenia, psychosis, etc as illness? What distinguishes autism from those conditions, ( if anything )?
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Last edited by ouinon on 04 Oct 2010, 4:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.

It is Alex's site after all & this community would not exist if it weren't for him. If he created this section without input from members here; it is his choice. If we don't like it; we could start our own site & we could have hookers & beer. On 2nd thought forget the site & the hookers. Do the Bender

Well then, they should change the slogan under the wrongplanet.net logo that's displayed on every page! I agree though NTs and people with other disorders asking about it is fine, but if the site says it's for aspergers and autism, it should be.

I have no problems with that section being there but WP needs to state that its no longer an aspergers and autism site.

I personally do not want to post my OCD issues in that section, because I feel they are related to my aspergers.

Do you think WrongPlanet should only accept members who have AS & that NTs should not be allowed here NTs are already here & I don't see the harm in em having a section to post on about non AS stuff because NTs are already posting about those issues in other sections anyways. The General Autism section has a lot of post by non Aspies about other issues

I tend to disagree. The entire site is dedicated to the Autistic spectrum. The new section is but a category under that topic. It seems to me to be quite clearly for co-morbid issues. Having known many people with issues being discussed there I find your reference to people, many of whom are WP members who happen to also be on the spectrum, as "those people" to be somewhat offensive.

Referring to folks with other conditions as "those people" makes it sound as though you feel they don't belong here.

The very issue being those of us on the spectrum have experienced all of our lives.

A great many of "those people," are US.

Every member here has the freedom to choose to avoid any forum section here. If it bothers you, don't visit it.

I would suggest that the title be changed just a bit though:

"Bipolar, Tourettes, Schizophrenia, and other Co-Morbid Psychological Conditions

Last edited by MrXxx on 04 Oct 2010, 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

No. But I don't see any reason for any non autistic person to be here unless they are interested in talking about autism or aspergers or have a family member/kid/friend etc and want to talk about it. If an NT wants to talk about bipolar they should go to a bipolar forum, not a forum that says "The online resource and community for Autism and Aspergers".

I don't think this issue is large enough to get a thread, but I can see where you're coming from.
My guess would have been it's just a small subsection for people to talk about people with aspergers and related conditions they also have.

Bipolar ("manic-depression") and schizophrenia are NOT curable. There are treatments yes, but taking a drug that you have to keep taking for the rest of your life is NOT a cure.

As for "mood disorders", that's pretty wide open. Only sometimes "susceptible to cures". But the forum description doesn't mention mood disorders, just bipolar. Yes, there is the "other Psychological Conditions" which is wide open, but then, it also says specifically "all neurodiverse individuals", which I think makes it clear that it doesn't mean NTs with issues.

I agree with what you are saying. But, since the forum description specifically names 3 lifelong, non-curable, disorders AND specifically says "neurodiverse", I really don't think it applies.

See, that's how I feel.