21 May 2021, 12:44 am
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Pepe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I think the perception of being called racist on this site is more than it actuality of it occurring, much more.
Last August the guidelines of this site changed. Calling somebody "racist" is is now not considered a personal attack and thus allowable. The change caused considerable disagreement, 18 pages of it. I was a main critic of the new guidelines and rigorously disagree with them. I disagreed with it so much I was seriously considering quitting WP. But I said to myself don't make a decision to quit a place that has meant so much to me for seven years rashly, let my anger and hurt calm down. Obviously, I am still here as is the guideline. I decided to put some faith in this group and by the end of the thread most had agreed we would not actually call each other racist but say "you said a racist thing"
The above rigamarole is to demonstrate since then I have been sensitive or as League_Girl put it "fragile" to occurrences of accusations of racism on this site. It has rarely happened, not only "you are a racist" but not even, "you said a racist thing".
Plenty of this way of thinking is racist, the roots of this way of thinking is racist, the source is racist. That type of thing is not personal and well within bounds for a political section.
Last August the guidelines of this site changed. Calling somebody "racist" is is now not considered a personal attack and thus allowable. The change caused considerable disagreement, 18 pages of it. I was a main critic of the new guidelines and rigorously disagree with them. I disagreed with it so much I was seriously considering quitting WP. But I said to myself don't make a decision to quit a place that has meant so much to me for seven years rashly, let my anger and hurt calm down. Obviously, I am still here as is the guideline. I decided to put some faith in this group and by the end of the thread most had agreed we would not actually call each other racist but say "you said a racist thing"
The above rigamarole is to demonstrate since then I have been sensitive or as League_Girl put it "fragile" to occurrences of accusations of racism on this site. It has rarely happened, not only "you are a racist" but not even, "you said a racist thing".
Plenty of this way of thinking is racist, the roots of this way of thinking is racist, the source is racist. That type of thing is not personal and well within bounds for a political section.
I have been on the receiving end of being unjustifiably called a racist, big time.
I have pretty much given up posting opinions in PPR as a result.
You have to consider the intention of people.
Some are determined to misrepresent a situation and I don't think anyone can justify this.
As mention above, magz made the point that if someone was going to be called a racist, or someone who holds racist views, the accuser needs to provide a ration argument for that comment.
How can anyone argue against this?
Yes, most people are offended by being labelled a racist if they don't embrace inequality.
It is especially ironic when that accusation is thrown around on an autism website at the drop of a hat.
Unless they literally say "you are a racist" or something like that you can only infer their intention.
Here is the example I mentioned above:
"If you walk like a racist, and quack like a racist, you are a racist."
That is the inference.
Being accused of having racist opinions and actually, outright, being called a racist, was a major hobby, in the PPR forum, at one time to the point of tedium. Perhaps people tend to say "you sound like a racist" more than actually calling someone a racist these days, but the suggestion is still there.
And how about this doozy:
Making a global/general accusation that all Republicans are racist/fascists. When I joined 8 years ago, one of the first rulz I learnt on WP was not to generalise. There is more generalisation now than there was back then.
The bottom line is, if you don't have a rational/reasonable/logical argument when you call someone a racist, even by implication, it is considered a personal attack, based on the discussion we had with magz.
I thought this was settled in that thread?
Are you saying that anyone should fling the racist card willy nilly without a valid reason to do so?
If so, I have to question your reasoning.
21 May 2021, 1:04 am
funeralxempire
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21 May 2021, 1:07 am
ASPartOfMe
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21 May 2021, 7:37 am
Pepe wrote:
The bottom line is, if you don't have a rational/reasonable/logical argument when you call someone a racist, even by implication, it is considered a personal attack, based on the discussion we had with magz.
I thought this was settled in that thread?
Are you saying that anyone should fling the racist card willy nilly without a valid reason to do so?
If so, I have to question your reasoning.
I thought this was settled in that thread?
Are you saying that anyone should fling the racist card willy nilly without a valid reason to do so?
If so, I have to question your reasoning.
“calling someone racist is not a personal attack, it is a description”. I do not see anything saying there must be a valid reason or any reason at all. That is why I unsuccessfully begged Alex to reconsider. I still consider that guideline a potential time bomb and thus I am pretty aware or in other words I’m looking for trouble. I was called that directly two different times by the same user, one of the time the user called me a bunch of other ‘phobes’ and ‘ists’ for good measure. The temptation was to say “I knew it, here we go”. But since unfortunately that is not considered a personal attack reporting this is precluded from us so the best I could do was ignore it, remembering how good the vast majority of members are. So far my fears have not come true.
Off Topic
IMHO your problems in PPR come from your use of overuse of sarcasm. Autistic people generally take things literally thus often do not pick up sarcasm. Autistic people are less likely to infer stuff.
PPR deals with topics people feel emotional about and thus less appreciative of sarcasm.
Sarcasm can be used to ease tension. I use it on on occasion without thinking. But like most other things in life too much of a good thing is bad.
PPR deals with topics people feel emotional about and thus less appreciative of sarcasm.
Sarcasm can be used to ease tension. I use it on on occasion without thinking. But like most other things in life too much of a good thing is bad.
21 May 2021, 5:27 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
“calling someone racist is not a personal attack, it is a description”.
That quote is clearly logically incorrect.
How many people see being called a pejorative as a compliment?
In my book, it is an attempt at character assassination, and most reasonable people would see it that way.
It is always insulting to me and is overwhelmingly premeditatedly used as an insult in addition to moral positioning.
I have no time for sanctimony.
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I do not see anything saying there must be a valid reason or any reason at all.
Magz discussed the finer details and I believe we all came to a working solution.
I.E. You need a rational reason to label someone a racist.
Arguing against this is irrational.
If we are following nonsense, then perhaps I should join the bandwagon.
Whatever is good for the goose is good for the gander, eh?
As a result, the entire communication system devolves into a farce.
ASPartOfMe wrote:
That is why I unsuccessfully begged Alex to reconsider. I still consider that guideline a potential time bomb and thus I am pretty aware or in other words I’m looking for trouble. I was called that directly two different times by the same user, one of the time the user called me a bunch of other ‘phobes’ and ‘ists’ for good measure. The temptation was to say “I knew it, here we go”. But since unfortunately that is not considered a personal attack reporting this is precluded from us so the best I could do was ignore it, remembering how good the vast majority of members are. So far my fears have not come true.
My preferred solution is to avoid proffering an opinion, wherever possible, in the PPR forum. The News forum is also pretty bad in terms of bad behaviour, but I'd be running out of places to posts if I boycott all potential forum problem.
I hardly post these days and tend to ignore people looking to start an argument, so I do embrace what you have said, to a very great degree.
Off Topic
ASPartOfMe wrote:
IMHO your problems in PPR come from your use of overuse of sarcasm. Autistic people generally take things literally thus often do not pick up sarcasm. Autistic people are less likely to infer stuff.
I predominantly use irony and satire.
I rarely use sarcasm.
And, yes, some people are incapable of understanding when I am being ironic even when I add an emoji making it clear or even spelling it out [irony], at times.
I have even gone into great detail, hidden by a spoiler, explaining the irony/satire and some people still had a problem, presumably because they actively want to make it a problem.
What does that say about a person who ignores an explicit qualifier?
Is it my problem or the other person's problem?
ASPartOfMe wrote:
PPR deals with topics people feel emotional about and thus less appreciative of sarcasm.
Once again, I will point out that I consciously avoid sarcasm, in almost all situation, in preference to irony and satire.
When I am sarcastic, I will expressly point it out and in some cases I will add the term "vitriolic
sarcasm". From memory I have only used that twice in the 8 years I have been on WP.
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Sarcasm can be used to ease tension. I use it on on occasion without thinking. But like most other things in life too much of a good thing is bad.
What I don't understand is the profound lack of self-control some people have.
If I dislike a particular person or a post that is expressing emotion-filled rage, I simply ignore it and move on or respond in a rational manner.
Perhaps this is an Australian way of doing things. [shrug]
I was erroneously under the impression that those on the spectrum tended to be more rational than emotionalistic.
Perhaps PPR is housed in an alternate bizarro dimension.
(note the emoji indicating playfulness) 
ASPartOfMe
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21 May 2021, 5:53 pm
Pepe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
“calling someone racist is not a personal attack, it is a description”.
That quote is clearly logically incorrect.
How many people see being called a pejorative as a compliment?
In my book, it is an attempt at character assassination, and most reasonable people would see it that way.
It is always insulting to me and is overwhelmingly premeditatedly used as an insult in addition to moral positioning.
I have no time for sanctimony.
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I do not see anything saying there must be a valid reason or any reason at all.
Magz discussed the finer details and I believe we all came to a working solution.
I.E. You need a rational reason to label someone a racist.
Arguing against this is irrational.
If we are following nonsense, then perhaps I should join the bandwagon.
Whatever is good for the goose is good for the gander, eh?
As a result, the entire communication system devolves into a farce.
ASPartOfMe wrote:
That is why I unsuccessfully begged Alex to reconsider. I still consider that guideline a potential time bomb and thus I am pretty aware or in other words I’m looking for trouble. I was called that directly two different times by the same user, one of the time the user called me a bunch of other ‘phobes’ and ‘ists’ for good measure. The temptation was to say “I knew it, here we go”. But since unfortunately that is not considered a personal attack reporting this is precluded from us so the best I could do was ignore it, remembering how good the vast majority of members are. So far my fears have not come true.
My preferred solution is to avoid proffering an opinion, wherever possible, in the PPR forum. The News forum is also pretty bad in terms of bad behaviour, but I'd be running out of places to posts if I boycott all potential forum problem.
I hardly post these days and tend to ignore people looking to start an argument, so I do embrace what you have said, to a very great degree.
Off Topic
ASPartOfMe wrote:
IMHO your problems in PPR come from your use of overuse of sarcasm. Autistic people generally take things literally thus often do not pick up sarcasm. Autistic people are less likely to infer stuff.
I predominantly use irony and satire.
I rarely use sarcasm.
And, yes, some people are incapable of understanding when I am being ironic even when I add an emoji making it clear or even spelling it out [irony], at times.
I have even gone into great detail, hidden by a spoiler, explaining the irony/satire and some people still had a problem, presumably because they actively want to make it a problem.
What does that say about a person who ignores an explicit qualifier?
Is it my problem or the other person's problem?
ASPartOfMe wrote:
PPR deals with topics people feel emotional about and thus less appreciative of sarcasm.
Once again, I will point out that I consciously avoid sarcasm, in almost all situation, in preference to irony and satire.
When I am sarcastic, I will expressly point it out and in some cases I will add the term "vitriolic
sarcasm". From memory I have only used that twice in the 8 years I have been on WP.
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Sarcasm can be used to ease tension. I use it on on occasion without thinking. But like most other things in life too much of a good thing is bad.
What I don't understand is the profound lack of self-control some people have.
If I dislike a particular person or a post that is expressing emotion-filled rage, I simply ignore it and move on or respond in a rational manner.
Perhaps this is an Australian way of doing things. [shrug]
I was erroneously under the impression that those on the spectrum tended to be more rational than emotionalistic.
Perhaps PPR is housed in an alternate bizarro dimension.
(note the emoji indicating playfulness) Off Topic
Irony, satire, sarcasm are all nonliteral language autistic people are not supposed be good at. So maybe satire and irony qualifiers are needed?
Lately, I noticed that the idea that autistics are non-emotional is less accepted and is being replaced by autistics are more emotional but in a different way. What is true? That is a topic for General Autism Discussion.
Not just PPR but a lot of politics seems like it is an "alternate bizarro dimension" to me, and most of it is anything but playful as far as I'm concerned. Most certainly the mainstreaming of "calling someone racist is not a personal attack, it is a description” is included in that.
Lately, I noticed that the idea that autistics are non-emotional is less accepted and is being replaced by autistics are more emotional but in a different way. What is true? That is a topic for General Autism Discussion.
Not just PPR but a lot of politics seems like it is an "alternate bizarro dimension" to me, and most of it is anything but playful as far as I'm concerned. Most certainly the mainstreaming of "calling someone racist is not a personal attack, it is a description” is included in that.
21 May 2021, 6:54 pm
ASPartOfMe
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21 May 2021, 7:51 pm
21 May 2021, 9:04 pm
22 May 2021, 1:54 am
25 May 2021, 2:33 am
funeralxempire
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25 May 2021, 2:36 am
25 May 2021, 6:17 am
AngelRho
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25 May 2021, 3:39 pm
07 Jun 2021, 4:16 pm
AngelRho
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10 Jun 2021, 12:18 am
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