Should the wrongplanet chat room be moved to its own server?

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I figure that if I smoked ciggeretes i would be paying around 40 dollars a week on ciggeretes. Since I dont smoke anymore, I try to put the money to a good cause. I really want alex to make a irc.wrongplanet.net and have lots of bandwith to offer everyone. We have lost wrongplanet users anyway, because freenode banned mibbit. I think it would be nice to have irc.wrongplanet.net and have it run by people that have aspergers, and by understanding people towards aspergers. I think that wrongplanet can offer more support to people who have aspergers. I think that wrongplanet can do better then what it is doing now. Well that is my opinion about wrongplanet. I would be very proud of wrongplanet having its own irc. and it would be good if wrongplanet can advertise more and get more people to join. I would like irc.wrongplanet.net to be on mibbit. I dont know if this is a good thing or bad, but I am addicted to wrongplanet, maybe that is because of my aspergers.

umm, it'd cost less then $5/month to setup and run the server.

ALex is already making a GREAT amount of money off the site.

And don't forget some of us not only have the skills to properly run this, but have offered to do so for FREE in the past, and might be willing to now, with some conditions

I rather see that wrongplanet has some stability and is run by experienced people. I would also end up with more ops, because I think that everyone is very important, and I think everyone on wrongplanet should feel important. I would op the people who I know and the new people when I got to know them. I think that everyone should get the chance and everyone that is a regular user should have the choice to be opped. I think it is important to treat every user like an important person. I think that everyone should help out each other out. That is how I feel about it. I am very computer illiterate, and being computer illiterate is really a sad thing. I think that I should go back to school and take more computer classes so that I can learn how to set up an irc channel. I think I will look to see if my college offers computer classes for this so that I can learn more about computers. I have a big problem of being addicted to wrongplanet, that is because I have aspergers really severely. I like to see wrongplanet improve and grow. I need people to talk to also, I get very lonely by myself. I like to chat a lot on irc, and I would like to have more people to chat with and more friends. I am at a point in my life that I need all the support that I can get. Well enough talk about me, I want what ever is best for wrongplanet and for the community.

Given some of the catfights and other drama on there, opping everyone is...uh...kind of disasterous sounding. It'd cause WAY more problems than it solves.

Personally, I don't think--given how much we get raided and such--that an aspie support channel is a great "My First Server" project for someone to learn on. That's a lot of personal data flying through the tubes. If we move, I'd be more comfortable being hosted by someone who has done this before.

</2cents>

I think you are right kassiane, about using someone with experience. Something that seems to bother me is I learn something then when I dont use it I lose it. I have to relearn my commands, which i think it is rather sad that I forgot lots of things. I might have to re do my notes especially if there is any changes being made, I have to use my notes all the time, or I cant be a op because I need my notes that badly, I cant remember things by heart. Well on my new network at least I have experienced ops like Arsanerit, allie, iamlost is on there, they are more competent then I am. Right now I am struggling with learning my basic commands again.

Alex is working on getting irc.wrongplanet.net put together. Alex emailed me telling me that. I am excited about the whole thing. I hope that everyone will have better bandwith.

I hope that we have more mature operators
I'm not going to name names, because I don't judge people on there maturity, but this channel has grownn over the years, and maturity is a must for channel maintenance

I have some bad news, rumors has it that alex will probably stay with freenode. I dont know if that is alex final decision, but I need more people convincing alex to move to a better environment.

see a thread posted by me in this section Kate

I have to mention that the thread starter and at least one other person posting on this thread are not declaring their vested interest in wanting the chat moved to another server. Those 2 members have been K-lined by freenode, the hosts of the IRC, and are hoping that in moving to another network they will gain readmittance to the #wp chatroom.

In my humble opinion:

Problem: In #wrongplanet's current situation, it is a liability

Symptoms:

- There is little trust between users and channel operators, resulting in many people making their own rooms. This is just one of the reasons for such activity, but ultimately it is the reason we least want to see.

- Freenode staff are getting tired of being approached by #wp members.

- There is far too much in the way of uncontrolled drama and pesonal brawling in the channel.

Solution:

- Staff need to be known and trusted by members old and new. I believe this can be brought about by:

- Organising channel staff into a single body, spanning 24 hours a day, like the channel itself is. The aim in this is to have a staff body that has at least 3 staff present at any given point during the day, on any given day of the year.

- by a 'single staff body', I mean all staff should be in communication via both staff channel and perhaps also a forum. In the channel, staff actions can be discussed in the moment. In the forum, they can be logged more permanently, so that staffers arriving can see what has recently happened since their last visit. This way, every op is in the loop.

- The selected staff should not be selected for their IRC skills. Anyone who has used IRC for some time knows something about how to op. That doesn't mean they would be any good at opping a large channel such as #wrongplanet. Instead, they should be picked for how good they are in maintaining a non-biased, impersonal position. Someone who would be willing to kickban their best friend, or favour their worst enemy if such a position would be in the best interests of the channel as a whole.

- The staff should also be able to provide an argument for their actions to the member in question. Depending on how urgent the situation is (a flooder should not be warned prior to ban), this explanation should be either before or after the action, and no more than 5 minutes either way. For example, @mick bans gary44 for personal attacking another member. @mick should then pm gary to explain exactly what was wrong, and why it was against channel rules. In this pm, gary also has a chance to defend himself. After all that is done with, @mick should discuss the ban in the staff channel, and then post the log of the ban event, along with the log of the pm conversation, to the staff forum, for staff coming later to discuss and/or act upon (i.e unbanning, which would also be logged and discussed)

- Staff should not be so lax with personal issues of others. It's one thing to be lenient, but it's another thing to throw your hands in the air and walk away from a problem you should be solving. Personally, as an op in several much smaller channels, I allow people to have disputes, debates and various other relatively harmless forms of arguments. However, I ALWAYS advise anyone who wants to get into personal disagreements to take it to pm. If not, their personal lives are at the mercy of anyone, including me, and plenty of people will be less than pleased about that. One attack always leads to another, and before you know it, the channel has broken up completely, and people are looking for ways to get away from other users. Direct insults to others should mean immediate mute (yes, logged, pm'd and discussed), and a firm but kind word from an op.

Summary:

At the end of the day, if the channel staff were doing an adequate job with the channel, and had ANY level of organisation, people would not really be dissatisfied. Anyone who would still approach freenode after having such fair and well-documented treatment, would be doing so completely irrationally. At least then, the freenode staffers could have an approachable and equipped body of channel staff to work with. Ultimately, if the correspondence is there between the channel and the network, it makes everyone's lives much easier, and may make staying with freenode a viable choice for the founder. At no extra cost, he could instigate a staff channel on freenode (or delegate an op to do that), and could add a private channel staff forum to this very site.

((((hugs))))

~Loving Light~

I agree with most of what you have to say, the ops already have a channel in which they discuss the action of users and reach consensus. there is also an area to document bans, warnings and other relevant issues. it has become common that when users disagree with the action taken by the OP team, they go straight to freenode staff to try and get it overturned, or else make posts in here.

Unfortunately there have been difficulties keeping OP staff available, however there has been a recent addition of new ops to try and prevent this issue.

We are aware that there are trouble users, however we are bound by the rules of the room, and try to treat people fairly in accordance with them.

as for people setting up new rooms, it seems that many people prefer to have their own personal fiefdom, which adhere to their own personal rules, this is a constant source of interpersonal conflict, and as these rooms are beyond our control, often these disputes end up in the #wp room or across freenode

we do try and treat people fairly, with documentation, unfortunately most of it is not suitable for public viewing.

Siv

agreed, but I say get it off freenode, christel is likely reaching her wits end over it now

I have recently received a ban from #wp myself, in which it was evident that the op in question had not reached any consensus with other staff. I myself conferred with another op during the time I was banned, and the op I spoke to was as puzzled about the reason for ban as I was. To be fair, I was told at the time of banning to pm the op, which I decided for myself would have been a waste of mine and their time. I eventually opted to do so 4 hours later, when it became clear that, not only was the reason for ban not directly because of a breach of channel rules (it was more of a preventative measure due to actions of other, notorious people), but also it was only at my prompt (during the later conversation) that the op was able to confirm with others that there was no merit to having banned me.

I can, however, state that, though I was incorrectly banned, I was treated with respect and apologised to for the ban, and thereafter the topic is closed. I also note that many other users aren't quite as forgiving as myself, and there could have easily been a major outcry develop if somebody else was in my position that day. It was this event that led me to question whether a communication is open between staff.



I am aware of this, and have (hopefully) been actively supporting the ops by attempting to diffuse situations. Often, however, it is only to my own detriment, as I often find myself opposing members who consider me as a friend. All too often, I note that being of the opinion that bridging people's rifts requires no bias is an opinion and a bias in itself. Maybe centralised, but still, I note that I'm hard to shift from it. Therefore, I find that opposing friends for one moment during a time when they are clearly in the wrong turns into opposing them right up until the point they change their mind or drop it altogether. It's a long time, but it helps to be available and willing to listen, even if the opposition is strong. This shows that keeping the peace really is incompatible with having friends or otherwise personal views of people. To be seen 'supporting the enemy' really does little for reputation Anyway, I digress. To get the best possible mix, look for users who are regularly present during the times when more ops are most needed. It's pointless going by timezone, as many of us don't have timezone-specific patterns, although the majority do have a regular pattern to when they are logged in and active. I often find myself sharing uptime with Australia, despite living pretty much the opposite side of the world.



My recommended course of action for trouble users is to watch first, act later. Ensure you have as many trusted pairs of eyes keeping an unbiased record of such users activities in channel and/or in pm. Remember, it's often those closest to them who may be great sources of information also. Until a suspicion can be confirmed or denied, it's best to just sit back and watch. There's a major difference between a troll and a hacker, or a potential hazard to users, but the treatment is similar. If an entire crew of ops can't get rid of it, pass it upward to the freenode people (with all necessary logs etc). There should be no reason to break the rules of the room in order to op effectively in any case, but also no op should be under the load of single-handedly dealing with several issues, or indeed just one 'trouble' user. When pressures get too much, it's not too difficult to imagine a typical op to lose cool and break from the rules. However, it should be avoidable in a well staffed room.



This is another reason for people setting up new rooms, indeed. I mentioned in my original reply that there are a multitude of reasons why people do this, and to directly blame a single reason for the entire phenomenon is a bad idea.

I am unclear as to 'unsuitable for public viewing'. I'd understand a small percentage of posts may contain personal information, or whatever else, but in terms of recording it and using it if needed, I see no problem with blanking out anything that should not be shared without express permission, and placing it in an op-only area, ready for use if needed at a later date.

((((hugs))))

~Loving Light~

Well Alex usually does make the final decision

though I have a suggestion for you Kate that you might like, I shall PM this to you over on one of the IRC nets you're not klined from

So far alex and I and iamlost are working on ircwrongplanet.bounceme.net port 9000, this will be in addition to wrongplanet. Anyone wants to join it you are more then welcome.