LGBT forum. Good thing for WP or just yet another subforum?

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Do we need a LGBT subforum?
Poll ended at 04 Dec 2011, 8:39 am
yes 64%  64%  [ 18 ]
no 36%  36%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 28

hyperlexian
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12 Dec 2010, 1:26 pm

Mark198423 wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think that if WP only had a couple of subforums already, then it would make sense that it would clutter things to add one more. but there are lots of smaller subforums already, and this one is no more specific than those ones are.

maybe if cluttering is a problem, WP could clean out some of the lesser-used subforums, or ones that don't relate to AS at all? because there are a few that are gathering dust. if we want to keep things on-topic and less divided, do we really need a forum games section, for example? that isn't related to AS at all.

the Bipolar, Tourette's etc. subforum is almost entirely composed of topics that would all fit in other categories already. but it is nice to have one central subforum to find support instead of digging through other categories. i think that very few people marginalize or limit themselves to that one forum only, so it is not exclusive or divisive to have the "other disorders" subforum.

my own philosophy - we are all on a spectrum (including NTs), and WP is a place for people in difficult situations to feel welcome, even if they don't have AS (have you noticed that large number of NTs who post here? they must gain someething from being here too). people who are ADHD or Bipolar often feel like they are on the wrong planet in real life, and i'm sure that some GLBT people feel the same way. i think the subforums are a way to attract and include people who feel marginalized in the outside world.


It's not a case of cluttering up really, it's about moving LGBT people from within the existing forums and putting them on their own where staight people are unlikely to join them and where some LGBT people will remain. I know I for one could contribute to a discussion about LGBT problems but wouldn't go into a dedicated forum for it, neither would many others.

Most NT's on here are here because of an AS friend/family member/partner, the aim of WP is not to provide a place for anyone feeling unwelcome.

i see what you are saying, but i don't see the distinction between a women's subforum and a GLBT subforum. if the creatioon of that subforum did not segregate people, i don't think there is ny reason to assume that an LGBT forum would split us up.

and when you say that you would not personally go into an LGLBT subforum, that is not a good reason to say that other poeple should not have that subforum. i don't know your reasons for that anyway... if that subforum makes you personally uncomfortable, that is a personal issue that nobody else should be working around. or if you are worried about being marginalized or bullied, then there are moderators to help you with that.

what would be your reason for staying away from the forum, even though you said you would help a GLBT person on a thread elsewhere?

and WP has already expanded its aims beyond just ASD. this is from the title of the Bipolar etc subforum on the main forum page:

Quote:
Bipolar, Tourettes, Schizophrenia, and other Psychological Conditions
If you have Bipolar, Tourettes, or another condition, please make Wrong Planet your home! We welcome all neurodiverse individuals, with or without Autism! Have something other than Autism? This is your place!


you are incorrect about the current aim of WP. note that we are not just inviting people with comorbid conditions, but also people who don't have ASD at all. WP is already moving in a certain direction, and that is toward the inclusion of many diversities.


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hyperlexian
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12 Dec 2010, 1:28 pm

Mark198423 wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Volodja wrote:
Should we get rid of the women's forum as well then?

exactly. why keep women's issues separate? and did the creation of the women's forum promote any sort of segregation? if it didn't, then i don't see why a GLBT subforum would be any different.


It didn't create segregation because it doesn't cater for all problems of women where an LGBT forum could. I don't see why there is a seperate womens forum anyway.

i don't understand the distinction you are making here. a women's forum is pretty broad and could cover every single issue. but women still go to other subforums too - they don't just stay in that one place. and men come inside there too.

so then, is your argument really that there shoud be fewer subforums overall? which ones should be removed?


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Mark198423
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12 Dec 2010, 1:48 pm

@Hyperlexian

The reason I wouldn't go there is that I don't have a particular interest in LGBT topics and they don't effect me directly so polls and the like would be a waste of time for me - the same reason I don't go into the womens forum. I'm far from uncomfortable with it, I've been to gay places that many gay guys avoid, I'm pretty unshockable in that respect. Other striaght people in the original thread about this stated they too would not go there.

Ok, I hadn't noticed that description previously, maybe I was wrong in that statement but the only seperate forum is the Bipolar, etc one and as has been stated many times, they are comorbid issues. There would be many more objections to an NT subforum but it'd be no different to making an LGBT one, particularly with your arguement.

The women's subforum cannot help you gain opinions from the sex you're attracted to (unless you're gay) for one thing and anything in there could be put elsewhere, particularly if men visit it too. I can understand a little for young women as young boy could get silly but adults can use the adult forum.

Yes, there could be some consolidation in the forums, in addition to scrapping womens:

Games and Video Games, Television, Film, and Video and Art, Writing, and Music could be put into a Media forum.

Random Discussion and Getting To Know Eachother could be combined into Introductions And Random Discussion.



Volodja
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12 Dec 2010, 3:20 pm

I definitely dont think we should scrap the women's forum, as it is obviously used (that is how it appears to me anyway, it seems to serve a purpose). So i see nothing wrong with giving an LGBT forum a chance in a similar way.

I just don't get why any of you have such a problem with the idea. LGBT people will still be able to and still will post in the other forums. If a gay guy has a problem with his boyfriend, he won't have to post about it in the LGBT forum - he could still post about it in the L&D forum. The LGBT forum would just be there for if you have an issue that's actually related to beign gay/trans. It will also make it a lot easier for aspies lookig for those particular subjects. I know there is a search forum, but that's not always as accurate.



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12 Dec 2010, 4:44 pm

I see lots of people saying, "hey, nothing wrong if they have their own forum". I see no one saying "We want our own forum". This threads reads like people trying to decide something for someone else. And, yeah, it could be that some who have posted here are LGBT, but, unless I missed it, no one has identified themselves as such, nor has anyone said "I would like to have such a forum available to use".


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Volodja
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12 Dec 2010, 5:32 pm

I am trans and I know at least one other person who's posted in here is bi/pansexual (not straight anyway)



hyperlexian
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12 Dec 2010, 6:48 pm

i am Bi, and i want the forum. i also strongly support the GLBT community in my city. so i am definitely speaking for myself.

(it just didn't seem relevant to state that, because we are all already WP members).


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12 Dec 2010, 6:56 pm

Mark198423 wrote:
Random Discussion and Getting To Know Eachother could be combined into Introductions And Random Discussion.


Oh goodness no. All the actual discussion that goes on in Random Discussion would be buried under a mound of that "Hi I'm [x]" stuff. It's way better that sort of thing is confined to its own pool.



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13 Dec 2010, 9:54 pm

Isn't there some evidence that people on the spectrum are more likely than NTs to be LBGT? There is possibly an interesting intersection between the two identities about which discussion might flourish on its own forum.



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14 Dec 2010, 3:25 pm

Volodja wrote:
I am trans and I know at least one other person who's posted in here is bi/pansexual (not straight anyway)


You're trans yet you ignored my direct question as to how you'd get more support in an LGBT forum when it's mainy the 'T's' that will actually have any valid input if it's specifically a transgender issue you have? If it's a question as to how AS effects a transgender issue then it's quite possible people other than trans people will have some kind of advice. If it's not you'd be better in a place with more transgender people to help. I'm not saying people should leave this site but it's possible to post on more than one website at a time if you only want LGBT people to see what you're posting.

I see the need for LGBT sections within certain organisations who can help if bullying happens but on an open site like this there is absolutely no need to put your problems away in a seperate forum when they effect your adult/teen life and your lovelife - sections already covered and frequented by posters willing to help.



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14 Dec 2010, 3:34 pm

Me personally/? I don't know - I'm not here looking for support. I'm not the only one on here who is LGBT though.

If what you're saying is true then we should get rid of a lot of the other forums - Women's, In depth adult life, Adolescents, Kids, School, Work... I mean we've all been kids, right? And anyone is capable of giving advice on jobs, so why have a separate category for work?

How will this forum harm you in any way?



Mark198423
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14 Dec 2010, 4:00 pm

Volodja wrote:
Me personally/? I don't know - I'm not here looking for support. I'm not the only one on here who is LGBT though.

If what you're saying is true then we should get rid of a lot of the other forums - Women's, In depth adult life, Adolescents, Kids, School, Work... I mean we've all been kids, right? And anyone is capable of giving advice on jobs, so why have a separate category for work?


Women's, yes - as I already stated in this thread, the others, not neccesarily as my point is that the issues are already covered. You go to the work one to find work help, LGBT or not, you go to Adult because you have an issue which isn't for young eyes, LGBT or not, you go to L&D if you have relationship and similar issues, LGBT or not, need I go on?

Volodja wrote:
How will this forum harm you in any way?


It clearly wouldn't, but I don't believe in needless seperation and I believe it'll take a little away from existing forums and put it in an exclusive place. The person who originaly requested this forum jumped towards perceived prejudice to argue their case - How can people claim to want equal rights, yet personally attempt to segregate themselves and their problems from others everywhere they go?



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14 Dec 2010, 8:55 pm

we have not been claiming prejudice against us on WP, so i'm not sure why you want us to defend that person's original arguments. we have given other reasons why we think it is a good idea.

i really don't understand how it harms non-LGBT people to have the forum. if str8 people choose to stay away, that is their own choice - they are not excluded in any way, and of course they would be welcomed. it isn't true segregation as cross-pollination can and should occur.

the ide aof the women's subforum being exclusive seems to be a non-issue, as men are welcome in the women's forum. it is only if men are being outright rude in a female thread that their posts will be removed - respectful comments are welcomed.

if men choose to exclude themselves, that doesn't make the women's subforum a bad thing (or an LGBT subforum).


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Mark198423
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15 Dec 2010, 3:18 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
we have not been claiming prejudice against us on WP, so i'm not sure why you want us to defend that person's original arguments. we have given other reasons why we think it is a good idea.


Where? The fact that it 'wouldn't actually hurt anybody' is no reason to have it. An NT forum wouldn't harm people but I'm even more against that.

hyperlexian wrote:
i really don't understand how it harms non-LGBT people to have the forum. if str8 people choose to stay away, that is their own choice - they are not excluded in any way, and of course they would be welcomed. it isn't true segregation as cross-pollination can and should occur.


That is ridiculously redundant! If you want staight people to post, why seperate the issues? Why create a forum who's header excludes them? If you want opinions from everybody, surely it'd make much more sense to post where everyone can see it. If there were a men's forum I wouldn't post things for both genders to reply to as that's what adult is for.

hyperlexian wrote:
the ide aof the women's subforum being exclusive seems to be a non-issue, as men are welcome in the women's forum. it is only if men are being outright rude in a female thread that their posts will be removed - respectful comments are welcomed.

if men choose to exclude themselves, that doesn't make the women's subforum a bad thing (or an LGBT subforum).


The title excludes me, I don't go to women's toilets, I don't go into women's forum's. If it's about respect, where do we go for respect? Many men don't get it from some women in L&D for example.



This thread has become pointless as nobody is actually addressing what I'm saying, you're just repeating your original non-statements.



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15 Dec 2010, 3:52 pm

There was a Men's forum and it wasn't used enough so it was deleted (iirc)

The men's forum was given a chance, so why not this?

The forum wouldn't exclude straight people as it wouldn't be a forum just for gay people to post in, it would be for topics ABOUT being gay/trans etc

I still don't really see your point



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15 Dec 2010, 4:17 pm

this is exactly where our last discussion broke down last time, Mark198423. i don't know why this topic makes you sound so upset.... but it's noticeable again.

last time, i questioned whether you and other posters had a homophobic tendency, because i did not understand why you and others were so hot and bothered about the possibility of an LGBT forum when it really doesn't concern you at all. if you were so much against other subforums, you have had plenty of opportunity to express your opinions, but it is the LGBT subforum that you really seem to have a problem with, as it is the only one you are arguing so vehemently against.

i won't make any assumptions now because that was not fair to you, but this is a very good time for you to maybe think about why the idea of this subforum upsets you so much. why do you take the topic to heart so deeply? it's obvious why it is important to me - i am bisexual. why does it matter so much to you?

p.s. if women are being disrespectful to men at all, feel free to report them to the mods. making vague insinuations here will not fix anything.


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