Anyone else afraid to post?

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Then what about Graelwyn's "Public pooping" thread and the 20 or so of us that replied to it with our own gross stories, and then that other thread in Members-Only, "What is it about the bathroom..."


Vomit is gross. Well, it depends on what you're vomiting.

Excretion?

LOL
You all are a crack up (funny).

I wonder if Spokane_Girl feels a little bit more empowered and not so lost now about that pesky "Adult" Forum... I hope so. But it seems to me there could be a way to add a lock of sorts to a section that is open about sex talk. It does seem to be a measurement of extremes with this community. Some seem to be almost sexual anorexic, while others are fixated. Since sex has been so brutalized by stereotyping in general - in every direction - it would seem a worthwhile thing to explore specifically in the AS context. I know it has hurt me being sexually stereotyped by two people with AS. I think it would be good to talk about it. One of the blessings/curses that AS brings is the dissection of things that most NT's take for granted. While it is not necessarily a blessing to dissect sex, it might a blessing to dissect the dissection of sex - if anyone can follow that.

As to my other item, I don't really know how to begin a conversation like that except to use the "I feel..." formula which does seem to work and is rather predictable and therefore comforting.

I feel... afraid, hurt, despair, inadequate, intimidated, sad and provoked
When... people lash out about NT's in very generalizing ways
Because I need... to be seen as an individual, and for my needs and feelings to be honored and respected by people, especially people that I either do or would like to learn to care about.

But one of the caveats is that AS seems to limit people's ability to honor and respect the feelings and needs of others. I don't know if it's really their ability to honor and respect that is limited as their ability to recognize those feelings and needs. Once the need has been walked on, the NT brain response is to engage the amygdala fear which is so overwhelming that the cortex activity is drowned out. At that moment the unaware "offender" is not a thinking human being but a dangerous reptile that the NT's defensive inner reptile is going to either fight or run away from. I can only imagine how "out of the blue" and incomprehensible this must seem. If only they could take a freakin' chill pill and just give you the information you need so that it doesn't have to happen again. But no. They seemingly want to scratch your eyes out.

I suspect that it seems meaningless and overdramatic to an AS. But when 99% of the population intuitively agrees with you, it's hard to share those estimations. Groupthink is only groupthink when it's a small group. If the group is nearly the entire population, then it seems justifyable to say it's "Universal". Not fair. I know.

So, how do we solve the problem rather than just repeat and maintain it?

Whitewave, I think it would comfort you if you that, when we go "NT's are horrible" or "NT's hate Aspies", that they're just making a generalisation. Not a personal attack against you, but rather the NTs they've met.

Of course I realize that that correction doesn't do much to help. But I don't make these comments myself, partly because 80% of NTs have been good to me.

Most NTs have been good to me. There's also good and bad in any group of people, not matter what their neurological status is.

Precisely.

Now this is completely unrelated, but what if someone were to spam something worthwhile for a change?

>.>
<.<
>.>

(meh...noticed that it could be taken a couple different ways, by "worthwhile" I mean that which I quoted.)

Last edited by shadexiii on 13 Dec 2007, 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Technically speaking, that's advertising spam.

Oh, heavens, like those ED cures?

Also, maybe the issue is immaturity, and people haven't learned how to act. We mature slower. Aspies don't usually go their whole lives in neurological stasis. responding in the same stereotyped way. If someone would politely tell the poster of the "offensive" post to phrase their question differently or where there's a better place to get their question answered might be constructive for those who recognize a post may not be appropriate. With fifteen thousand members, and many in their teens and twenties, there's going to be problems not just with the AS, but the ignorance and adolescent behavior that's just natural.

Also, not everyone posting repellent posts is doing so out of AS. Sometimes it's due to a mental issue or illness. When someone becomes abusive, it's because they have a personality disorder, depression, or are just a jackass. It seems to me that the term "Aspie" is becoming much like a Borderline Personality Disorder diagnosis--an excuse to blame the person for their inability to communicate and to snap out of it. It's a dangerous attitude.

SpokaneGirl did the right thing by coming to this forum and expressing herself here and asking questions.

Something positive? I think this discussion is, after all.

2 girls 1 cup?

Note: I DO NOT recommend watching this.

That sounds really simple. But it's not easy. Once my reptile brain calms down, it registers, but in the moment, it doesn't work. The trigger is too powerful, like I said. This is true somewhat for everyone, even you guys if you haven't been numbed out completely. Adrenaline and Cortisol are flooding me and suppressing all my "non-essential" functions like logic and information processing so that I can put maximum effort into "essential" stuff like fighting to the death or outrunning an attacker.

Also, cognitive type theory and method doesn't work well with folks like me who have PTSD and other disorders. I need a safe zone from the triggers before I can feel safe, otherwise I'm always on alert and ready to fight or run away at the slightest hint of offense.

Plus, "open society" no longer tolerates hate speech like "nigg__" or "sp_c" or "ch_nk". The reason is that using those words was intentional provocation for so long that they triggered the fight response even when people weren't trying to provoke. It still happens. Once the words are in the air, everyone's blood-pressure goes up and people start to form "sides", "square off" and "size one another up". It is just too volatile. It had to stop. There are really nice, moral reasons to stop using those words, but that's really just the spiritual side of the same coin. Even when someone speaks one of those words when completely alone, it generates a sense of fear or aggression in that person. Human beings are capable of better things.

It's the same with "hate speech" about NT's. Aggression and fear are in the air, and there's no way to remove it. All we can do is wait it out. This wastes alot of time and a continuing pattern builds up and reinforces itself until there are no neutral feelings left. There are so many worthwhile things to talk about but they require a safe atmosphere. Gosh it would be nice to see what happens if a safe space was opened up and aggressive moves were not tolerated. Healing, maybe? Apologies? Forgiveness?

Only 80%?

So true. Aggressiveness is an adolescent growth stage and it's important and valuable. After all, some people still want to harm others, and it is only fair that people be allowed and prepared to defend themselves or others who are too weak or vulnerable to do so. The skills involved in filtering out one's own aggressiveness in order to defend the vulnerable so as not to perpetuate the problem are basically the "martial arts". But one can't even begin to learn the martial arts until one has experienced one's own aggressiveness. Once it emerges, it can be directed. But not before then.



Now you're "singin' my song" (talkin' about something I want to talk about)! LOL BPD What a racket!! It's Complex PTSD which should have been diagnosed as an Attachment Disorder when the window of opportunity was still open to deal with the Parent(s). But no! Now that the Parents are out of the "caretaker" role, the blame gets magically transfered to the adult child! What an amazing trick! Genuine slight of hand! [feeling the strong impulse to applaud the Mental Health and Academic Communities for their considerable "skill" and go on a really sarcastic and angry rant, but trying to restrain myself. ]

The two people that I deal with are really traumatized by being blamed. Really bad. They spend alot of time obsessing about their retorts and defenses and justifications. It really sucks alot of life out of them. This is one part I can obviously relate to. I really work hard to hold a compassionate space where they are not being blamed, and yet are still given the tools and resources they need to heal and transform. It's a delicate dance to get solutions through the defenses without triggering the blame alarms. (METAPHOR ALERT!) It all acts like a huge fortress that barricades them from the healing that they need for the main disorder to begin with!

Anyhoo! Sometimes rants are sacred. They deserve sacred space. I think they need to be allowed out once in a while. And I sorely wish there was html code for them such as [rant] BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! [/rant] and then it sets the whole block of text inside flaming borders with slithering snakes for exclamation points or something. That would help somewhat to context the anger.



I couldn't agree more.

Getting a bit off-topic here... but the only diagnosed Borderline I ever met was raised by one of the sweetest, most loving women I've ever known, who managed to raise two other children without such troubles. I'm tempted to go on at length about the intellectual dishonesty I discovered when I read some of the sources cited by Dr. Sears. Suffice it to say I no longer believe that Attachment Disorder even exists, except in cases of extreme abuse and neglect such as one might find in a third-rate orphanage in a third world country. I think it's a shame that the "blame the parent" crowd has been regaining ground over the past few years.

Might make for an interesting topic for a thread in the PPR forum.

In regards to your concern over NT-bashing, please realize that this site is not an NT support site. It is primarily a support site for those with AS. If we were to restrict what our members vent about (regarding NTs), in the way you appear to be proposing, we would be doing them a great disservice. It's hard enough for aspies to come up with the "right words" to avoid offending people. Here is a safe place for them to come on after a rough day and say "NTs are so mean to me!" because in that moment, that is how they're feeling. It seems odd to me that an NT would come here looking to be sheltered from that sort of talk.

People simply do make generalizations. I understand that you think that's a poor state of affairs. It is. But it's a problem with humanity in general, not with this site. If you want to stop that from happening, I think you'd be better off starting somewhere that isn't populated by people with social difficulties, needing support for themselves. I do not think it is kind or reasonable to expect our members to edit their frustrated outbursts in order to cater to the needs of the NT population. We have to play by those rules every day. If you are neurotypical, the whole world is your haven. Here is ours.

I'll have to take a chill-pill and calm down for a few days before I even respond to that. I have no deep knowledge of Sears' work.



I wonder why you think I don't know that already? Was there something I said that made you think that? You seem to have ignored every single thing I said in acknowledgment to those same facts and exaggerated the one extremely mild and gentle comment about the possibility of something different. And you seem to be accusing me of something that I'm actually guilty of the opposite of.

And why make it easy for me to believe you are willing to make the absurd judgment that it's okay to delete accounts of folks who talk about poop or sex, but not even attempt a loving and patient redirect for a conversation about hate. And after all the effort it took to even bring this up, and getting encouragement from several other members to go ahead and talk about it, how is it you're willing to authoritatively burn all that down? Why confirm my fears after several others have gone to the trouble to show that they want to be exceptions to it? What is bothering you?

^ We have a tendency to elaborate to get all of our point across, as it's either that or no point given at all, sadly.

In short, she means to say that we don't really get a lot of chances to let out our feelings and rant because if we did it most anywhere else we'd be slandered for hate talk or to get over it or something like that, which makes us feel often that we have no haven, even at home, which happens to a lot of Aspies when their parents are too stuck-up to accept that their son or daughter thinks differently.

We all realize your good intentions though, and I agree with your points. I think there should be like a "NT HATE SPEECH" Disclaimer or something.