LGBT forum. Good thing for WP or just yet another subforum?

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You can't see my point? I've already gone into much more detail than you have, as far as I can see, you don't actually have a point.

The men's forum was probably less used because many men actually value the opinion of women so posted in adult instead - they can easily serve the same issues.

Once again, my point is that the topics in question are already served. In what way do the problems of LGBT people differ from straight people? The only difference with LGB is sexuality if you actually look at it properly, trans people are having completely different issues to both. There may be a higher (admitted) rate of trans people in the LGB world but it's not exclusive to that group by any stretch - this is the only section of LGBT that could have issues different to the rest of us but on this site I believe a 'Transexual' forum would go the way of men's. Seperating people due to sexuality is no different than seperating them due to race, religion or any other reason - it's not acceptable for them so it shouldn't be for LGB's.

I can completely understand the need for seperation in order to create a safe environment but I don't understand the need in an already safe environment.

we tried on both threads to explain our positions to you, and you don't agree. that's fine. but it doesn't make our positions wrong - it just means that you can't see it from our points of view. you can keep arguing the same points over and over, but it will not convince us, any more than we will convince you.

what i am asking is why you are taking it so personally? what is it that makes this issue so important to you?

Last edited by hyperlexian on 15 Dec 2010, 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just because you write more does not necessarily mean that what you're saying is any more valid than what I'm saying. My point is that there are people who would like this forum, therefore why not give it a try? It's as simple as that.

You may be right that most issues gay/bi people have could be addressed in the other forums, I'm not sure. I can only see this from my perspective. Not all problems gay people have are relaated to dating/relationships though. And The Haven (to me) always seems like somewhere to post if you want sympathy, rather than to properly discuss a problem. That might just be me though.

To me the whole issue is the same as the Women's forum, which I also see no problem with.

Ok, so an LGBT subforum welcomes us but doesn't concern us at all? That makes 'perfect sense'.



To be quite honest, I first came into this section a few months ago so never saw any other proposed forums. Any new forums I noticed since joining were added during one of the times I wasn't coming to the site so there would be no point in talking about them once they're here.



The reasons it matters to me are, 1- I post here and I believe it will take thing away from other forums, as I've repeatedly stated, and 2- I believe in equality for all and this is not treating people equally (how can you not see that? How are your problems as bisexual different to mine as a straight?).

If I want to meet with LGBT friends and straight friends on the same night, we go to the same venue, I don't go to normal town for one group and the Gay Village for the other, we meet together as IT MAKES SENSE. Why should an open site like this be any different? It's segregation that wasn't even discussed until a fairly new member requested it, insinuating exclusion in the very first post. Since then, nobody has actually stated that they feel they have problems they would like to discuss but aren't comfortable doing so in existing forums, only that it wouldn't do any harm. Not to people, no, but it would to other forums.

Also, I don't see why somebody who is homophobic would argue against the creation of said forum. It would remove the 'offensive' posts from forums they wish to visit. You say you're not making assumptions but if that's truly the case, why are you bringing that up?

I never said anything about being more valid, what I said was you don't have a point. All you're saying is a couple of people want it, so give it a try. If that was done with every suggestion we'd be over-run with subforums.

What are these other problems then? Bullying? Nobody on here has experience with that. If it's anything explicit then it has to be adult anyway due to age restrictions so can't be that arena.

You act like I'm some bigoted idiot who doesn't know what I'm talking about but I know many LGBT people, including each 'section' and they don't reserve their problems and discussions for when I'm not around, it shouldn't work that way. Do you really think that new LGBT members will post as much in the L&D and other forums as much when they see the LGBT one? They'll assume that's the section for all issues vaguely relating to their sexuality and post there instead - taking posts and frequest members from other subforums.
I think it's nice that you get everybody contributing to discussions regarding getting dates, more fun stuff like attractive people, etc but you'll gradually get alot less of that kind of thing once LGBT is created.

Huh? Where did I ever mention you being bigoted?

I don't see why gay people would assume they have to post any relationship/dating topics in the LGBT forum. If it's something that's just as applicable to straight people as gay people, then I'm sure it wouldd go in the L&D forum.

straight people go to gay and lesbian bars all the time - you don't have to be gay to be welcome there. bad analogy.

you are assuming that somehow straight people would be left out of a GLBT forum, but there is no reason to assume that it would happen. you would be welcome there, and could post there.

the reason why i think you would not understand the importance (as a straight person) is because you already do not understand the importance of the women's forum... and i would say that it is because you are not a woman. you do not need to avoid that forum out of respect - men are actually welcome in there. after all, it is not a private washroom, it is a public forum. you are only excluding yourself by your own choice. there is no segregation going on.

i think that the subforum is worth a try - i do not think, based on any of your arguments, that there could be any harm in it. there is only one way to know, and that is by trying it out. alex has added and later removed subforums before if they were ultimately unsuccessful.

So tell me, what would they post there? I asked already but once again you skip past.

Experiences in transition, hormones, surgery etc. Explaining it to family/friends, schools/work. Advice on "passing."

Obviously I don't know what other people would post there any more than you do

This issue is exactly the same as the women's forum to me. And the women's forum clearly works well

Having in worked in a few I'm well aware of that, who said we'd go to a gay venue anyway? Regardless of your thoughts on my analogy there's no segregation as no homophobia exists amongst us, just like there isn't on WP.



If the forum is for everybody then there shouldn't be a LGBT or Women's title on it. I'm not the first person to question Women's and I've even seen women say that maybe it shouldn't be there. I've seen straight people state they wouldn't post in LGBT, I've not seen anyone mention what use it would actually serve other than taking LGBT posts out of existing forums.



An unsuccessful forum would be decided by the number of posts made within it, not how many it removes from existing forums so wouldn't really prevent what I fear will happen.

If someone wouldn't post in the LGBT forum, then what are they gonna be missing out on? Because they're obvously not interested in the kind of topics that are gonna be in there, so why does it matter to them that those topics would not be elsewhere?

The title is not LGBT Only or WOmen Only. The title refers to the subject, not the people who can post in there. I would have thought that was obvious - you don't have to have schizophrenia etc to post in the Other disorders forum

These are trans issues and I already mentioned that this particular section maybe could use one but wouldn't get enough posts without LGB being grouped with them so would likely be removed. I don't think it's worth losing parts of other forums so trans doesn't go as it wouldn't give you anymore help than a soley trans forum.

Last edited by Mark198423 on 15 Dec 2010, 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I've already mentioned what they'd miss out on - the extra advice of people not posting in the other forums and vice-versa.

But why do you assume they wouldn't post elsewhere? There are plenty of women replying to threads, despite there being a women's forum. Plenty of teenagers despite there being an adolescent forum.

I for one would still post anywhere else. In fact I tend to use the "view more posts" a lot, so see topics from all forums.

I can kind of see your point about gay topics being just as suitable in the other forums. I guess I was thinking about the whole thing from my own position (trans, not gay). I still don't see any harm in it though and think it should at least have some trial period.

interesting thread...

scanned through it all....


interesting points,

I know I'd find myself just posting in the gay forum.

fixed interests and that...

another interesting point about segregation its nice to expose gayness to all.

well course its nice to talk to other gay aspies,

share experiences.

I started the site below

well, you could ask alex to use diferent criteria when evaluating how effective a subforum is. alex is making the final decision, and on the other thread he signalled his intention to create this subforum. our arguments are perhaps moot.

if you don't understand the importance of the women's subforum, i don't think that the importance of the LGBT subforum can really be explained to you. we have tried, and you have not listened to our answers.

about segregation... some people ONLY post in PPR, so should PPR be banished? it seems to segregate people, and we are not benefitting from some of of those user's input in other areas of the forum because they only post in that one place. plus, newbies are routinely given harsh treatment in PPR if they do not promote popular ideas, which yet another reason to eliminate it. and further, it doesn't even relate to asperger syndrome. so why keep a PPR forum?

really, a person could argue against almost every single subforum with the exception of maybe 4 or 5. WP is heading in the direction of more subforums and more inclusion of various diversities. that inclusion has meant that there are more subforums dealing with different issues too.