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Reasons Aspies don't join/leave WP?

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Are you aware of individuals on the spectrum that have a) decided not to join WP, or b) left WP?
Poll ended at 24 Jun 2013, 2:11 pm
Yes, but I don't know why individuals left/didn’t join 15%  15%  [ 13 ]
I don't know anyone else who left/didn’t join 28%  28%  [ 24 ]
No, everyone I know who joined WP stayed 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Yes, they indicated they didn’t like "negativity" 13%  13%  [ 11 ]
Yes, they thought this site was too positive towards ASDs 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Yes, they thought the site is too pro-cure 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Yes, they thought the site didn’t represent them 7%  7%  [ 6 ]
Yes, they felt their views were ignored 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Yes, they thought the site was too depressing 11%  11%  [ 10 ]
Yes, they felt awkward posting positive life experiences 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Other/Please explain 18%  18%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 87

Yayoi
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31 May 2013, 1:40 am

AgentPalpatine wrote:
Yayoi wrote:
This place isn't for everyone. I have a feeling I'm a bit of an outsider myself here because the general attitude here is "you're different, deal with it" but I want to learn to work around my differences. Not everyone with AS feels like they're one of the community. In fact, I barely feel that way myself, but I'm here just because it's reassuring to know I'm not alone.


Is there any possibility you could give an example of the above? There's two ways I can read your post, and I want to make sure I'm following your intent.


I've seen many people who talk about habits like stimming, public meltdowns etc. and seem to think said habits are unbreakable and an inevitable part of living with AS. I don't do any of that stimming stuff because, well, I don't feel the urge to, and don't want to lose my chances at being accepted socially either. Also there are several people who have pretty much resigned to the fact they will never, EVER have a NT friend/romantic partner/spouse etc. and don't want to learn how to socialise. But then there are the ones like me, and a few others, who just want to be seen as a part of regular society, rather than an alternative society made up of people who can't get along in the mainstream world, without losing who they are TOO much, and such people seem to be a minority here.


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31 May 2013, 1:52 am

Naturalplastic and Nessa,
I feel that with such a large and varied group of members, with differences in culture and conditions, the details can be easily lost here in WP. I try to inject some humour in my posts but it is often missed or fails, similar to the "sensitive soul" comment above. I suppose I will have to get in the habit of tagging my remarks but I feel that defeats my main purpose of being here, which is to try to improve my communication skills.

PPR does seem to be populated by the usual suspects proud of their extreme views. If a topic subject is not inflammatory in the first place the conversation can soon devolve to baiting and insult contest anyway.



Last edited by neilson_wheels on 31 May 2013, 6:16 am, edited 4 times in total.

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31 May 2013, 2:15 am

Yayoi wrote:
AgentPalpatine wrote:
Yayoi wrote:
This place isn't for everyone. I have a feeling I'm a bit of an outsider myself here because the general attitude here is "you're different, deal with it" but I want to learn to work around my differences. Not everyone with AS feels like they're one of the community. In fact, I barely feel that way myself, but I'm here just because it's reassuring to know I'm not alone.


Is there any possibility you could give an example of the above? There's two ways I can read your post, and I want to make sure I'm following your intent.


I've seen many people who talk about habits like stimming, public meltdowns etc. and seem to think said habits are unbreakable and an inevitable part of living with AS. I don't do any of that stimming stuff because, well, I don't feel the urge to, and don't want to lose my chances at being accepted socially either. Also there are several people who have pretty much resigned to the fact they will never, EVER have a NT friend/romantic partner/spouse etc. and don't want to learn how to socialise. But then there are the ones like me, and a few others, who just want to be seen as a part of regular society, rather than an alternative society made up of people who can't get along in the mainstream world, without losing who they are TOO much, and such people seem to be a minority here.


I feel this is where the diversity of effects needs to be appreciated. The spectrum is massive and some can not change their behaviour. I understand that you feel relatively high functioning but it is good to try and see yourself in someone else's shoes. Comparing sensory issues, you may be able to walk down a busy street, another would feel that they are subject to the force of a tornado in the same situation. This is not an experience that can be learned away and it seems there are few available who can teach suitable coping strategies either.

I only recently discovered my point on the spectrum. When I was younger i felt similar to yourself, that I was significantly different but I still attempted to have a life involved in the fringes of society. After experiencing 40 years of frustration I feel I may as well be marooned on an desert island.

I am in no way trying to down play your own experiences but acceptance of each others limitations is key.



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31 May 2013, 2:15 am

Yayoi wrote:
I've seen many people who talk about habits like stimming, public meltdowns etc. and seem to think said habits are unbreakable and an inevitable part of living with AS. I don't do any of that stimming stuff because, well, I don't feel the urge to, and don't want to lose my chances at being accepted socially either. Also there are several people who have pretty much resigned to the fact they will never, EVER have a NT friend/romantic partner/spouse etc. and don't want to learn how to socialise. But then there are the ones like me, and a few others, who just want to be seen as a part of regular society, rather than an alternative society made up of people who can't get along in the mainstream world, without losing who they are TOO much, and such people seem to be a minority here.


There is a possibility for many that these behaviors (I would hesitate to characterize stimming or meltdowns as "habits") are not something that can voluntarily be stopped without significant support. Such support is not available to adults, and I am not sure that many who might consider offering such support would know how to manage it.

I also think that there might be a bit of confusion between "resigned to the fact/idea/notion/belief that they will never ever have an NT friend, romantic partner, spouse, etc" and "doesn't feel a particularly strong need for such."



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31 May 2013, 2:34 am

neilson_wheels wrote:
I feel this is where the diversity of effects needs to be appreciated. The spectrum is massive and some can not change their behaviour. I understand that you feel relatively high functioning but it is good to try and see yourself in someone else's shoes. Comparing sensory issues, you may be able to walk down a busy street, another would feel that they are subject to the force of a tornado in the same situation. This is not an experience that can be learned away and it seems there are few available who can teach suitable coping strategies either.

I only recently discovered my point on the spectrum. When I was younger i felt similar to yourself, that I was significantly different but I still attempted to have a life involved in the fringes of society. After experiencing 40 years of frustration I feel I may as well be marooned on an desert island.

I am in no way trying to down play your own experiences but acceptance of each others limitations is key.


I get the impression it's more about people who are against the idea than those who've done what they can and still struggle. I don't judge anyone for what they can't help, but I would judge them for spreading the idea that people can't or should be ashamed of changing to benefit themselves.



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31 May 2013, 3:13 am

Cilantro wrote:
[
I get the impression it's more about people who are against the idea than those who've done what they can and still struggle. I don't judge anyone for what they can't help, but I would judge them for spreading the idea that people can't or should be ashamed of changing to benefit themselves.


I have had too many experiences where I express that I have done what I can and still struggle, and have it interpreted back to me as "against the idea." Plus I have seen posters here on several occasions post variations of "If I can do it, you can do it."



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31 May 2013, 3:13 am

Hello Cilantro, I sympathise with Yayoi's first statement:

Quote:
This place isn't for everyone. I have a feeling I'm a bit of an outsider myself here because the general attitude here is "you're different, deal with it" but I want to learn to work around my differences. Not everyone with AS feels like they're one of the community. In fact, I barely feel that way myself, but I'm here just because it's reassuring to know I'm not alone.


I prefer to not judge or be judged but that is a rare situation. I have not seen too much overt condition criticism here, but I have not been around too long.

A major factor in WP seems to be the large degree of rigid thinking. I have no experience of other forums so I can not compare this, whether this is more common for those with AS on the internet or just a feature of virtual communication. I lean towards the former.

The best thing that could come out of this site, or one like it, would be a end to persecution of those with AS. I agree that it would be good if we could lead by example.

Getting everyone here to work together is like trying to herd cats. :lol:



Last edited by neilson_wheels on 31 May 2013, 4:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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31 May 2013, 3:31 am

Verdandi wrote:

I have had too many experiences where I express that I have done what I can and still struggle, and have it interpreted back to me as "against the idea." Plus I have seen posters here on several occasions post variations of "If I can do it, you can do it."


I've had the experience both here, on other sites, and in real life where if I mention not being able to do something no one believes me and insists I can do it or even get pretty nasty about it.

Some people seem to interpret saying you can't as saying you won't, others seem to think you have low self confidence or self esteem or whatever even though you are just being realistic about your limitations.



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31 May 2013, 3:40 am

Cilantro wrote:
neilson_wheels wrote:
I feel this is where the diversity of effects needs to be appreciated. The spectrum is massive and some can not change their behaviour. I understand that you feel relatively high functioning but it is good to try and see yourself in someone else's shoes. Comparing sensory issues, you may be able to walk down a busy street, another would feel that they are subject to the force of a tornado in the same situation. This is not an experience that can be learned away and it seems there are few available who can teach suitable coping strategies either.

I only recently discovered my point on the spectrum. When I was younger i felt similar to yourself, that I was significantly different but I still attempted to have a life involved in the fringes of society. After experiencing 40 years of frustration I feel I may as well be marooned on an desert island.

I am in no way trying to down play your own experiences but acceptance of each others limitations is key.


I get the impression it's more about people who are against the idea than those who've done what they can and still struggle. I don't judge anyone for what they can't help, but I would judge them for spreading the idea that people can't or should be ashamed of changing to benefit themselves.


I think there comes a point at which, even if you can "fit in" - you need to consider the cost to yourself, long term, of doing so.
If you can do it without effort or problem and absolutely no consequences to yourself - then I suspect many of us wouldn't be here.
I've tried it many times. I can do it. But it burns me out eventually every time.

Such things need to be approached reasonably by the individual and considered by what is best for them in the short term, mid term and long term. It's up to them to prioritise.

I freely admit I have in the past, simply told people they have no right to complain if they have not put a proper effort in - and I stand by that.
If you haven't even really tried yet are spamming the forums over it again and again with the same topic yet not trying to do anything different - then at least try, you may succeed or fail, but at least after that, then you will have earned the right to complain.


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31 May 2013, 3:56 am

Kjas, good points. Simple cost/benefit analysis that should be an innate function. There is always a cost, nothing is free, I know I can't keep up the payments any more.

I do resent when someone has posted specifically asking for advice and your opinion is rejected without consideration. I do not mean an "I can't" response, I do not understand "I will not even try it" reply. Maybe that is a function of my own rigid thinking though.

EDIT
Hanyo this statement is not directed at you, I missed your post while I was writing.

I think most, if not all, people can be guilty of misinterpretation and projecting their thoughts. Again an element, or lack of, ToM may be relevant here but I do not want to derail this topic.



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31 May 2013, 8:35 am

Verdandi wrote:
Cilantro wrote:
[
I get the impression it's more about people who are against the idea than those who've done what they can and still struggle. I don't judge anyone for what they can't help, but I would judge them for spreading the idea that people can't or should be ashamed of changing to benefit themselves.


I have had too many experiences where I express that I have done what I can and still struggle, and have it interpreted back to me as "against the idea." Plus I have seen posters here on several occasions post variations of "If I can do it, you can do it."


Those people are not me and don't have my opinions on this. If that's what's going on, then they're in the wrong.

If anyone at all can do something, though, then no one should be encouraged against trying to do it themselves or not receive support in trying to do it.

Kjas wrote:
I think there comes a point at which, even if you can "fit in" - you need to consider the cost to yourself, long term, of doing so.
If you can do it without effort or problem and absolutely no consequences to yourself - then I suspect many of us wouldn't be here.
I've tried it many times. I can do it. But it burns me out eventually every time.

Such things need to be approached reasonably by the individual and considered by what is best for them in the short term, mid term and long term. It's up to them to prioritise.

I freely admit I have in the past, simply told people they have no right to complain if they have not put a proper effort in - and I stand by that.
If you haven't even really tried yet are spamming the forums over it again and again with the same topic yet not trying to do anything different - then at least try, you may succeed or fail, but at least after that, then you will have earned the right to complain.


Change doesn't happen overnight, though, and nothing's going to hold people back like an anti-change attitude or inadequate support from what might be their only outlet. Not everyone will change or change to the same extent, but ideally people could vent or fail and receive encouragement or ideas. A better term might actually be growth, and I think deterring people from this unless they're in real danger from what they're planning is morally offensive.

A big part of what was growth for me wasn't the immediate results of trying, it was the attitudes and the feedback I grew up around that slowly helped me to develop my thoughts, my feelings, and my actions from their base state into something that was better for me and a better expression of myself. I am what I am because of small victories, many of them over myself and many of them hard-won. If I grew up around anything else I might not have gotten out of my deep and very dangerous depression, and the effort and the consequences of over a decade have been worth it. That includes the "hard knocks" that I don't think it's fair to give out because of how unpredictable people's responses to it are.

I realize that not everyone gets to have the offline experiences that made a difference for me, but I'd hope that an online haven could provide a virtual replacement as some of the most influential people were ones I talked to online.



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31 May 2013, 12:25 pm

Some times I just don't have anything to say, but I don't think I'd ever leave permanently. WP is fluid - a year from now could be a whole different experience.



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31 May 2013, 2:17 pm

Yayoi wrote:
AgentPalpatine wrote:
Yayoi wrote:
This place isn't for everyone. I have a feeling I'm a bit of an outsider myself here because the general attitude here is "you're different, deal with it" but I want to learn to work around my differences. Not everyone with AS feels like they're one of the community. In fact, I barely feel that way myself, but I'm here just because it's reassuring to know I'm not alone.


Is there any possibility you could give an example of the above? There's two ways I can read your post, and I want to make sure I'm following your intent.


I've seen many people who talk about habits like stimming, public meltdowns etc. and seem to think said habits are unbreakable and an inevitable part of living with AS. I don't do any of that stimming stuff because, well, I don't feel the urge to, and don't want to lose my chances at being accepted socially either. Also there are several people who have pretty much resigned to the fact they will never, EVER have a NT friend/romantic partner/spouse etc. and don't want to learn how to socialise. But then there are the ones like me, and a few others, who just want to be seen as a part of regular society, rather than an alternative society made up of people who can't get along in the mainstream world, without losing who they are TOO much, and such people seem to be a minority here.


Oh, okay, now that you've explained what you meant, I guess I don't quite agree after all. I have really made great effort to stop some of my stims, but it seems impossible; it's more like unconscious behavior, so I can't really control it. And ironically, my stims seem to help me to socialize; (I tend to stim more than usual when socializing)- I think they help to "ground" me, and keep me focused. I can concentrate better when I stim.

What I meant, with my earlier comment, is that I don't want to feel negative about the rest of the world, and my place in it. I also don't like it when WP members criticize each other; that seems like cattiness to me. So I stay away from those threads.


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31 May 2013, 4:09 pm

TallyMan wrote:
5. I'm disillusioned with the way Alex runs the site. He's promised a new version of the site software for several years now and nada, zilch. The site has ongoing technical faults and bugs that never get fixed. Alex has abandoned the site from all practical point of view, which leaves the remaining moderators overstretched and not adequately supported, this means that only a tiny fraction of the posts are actually vetted by moderators. (Alex promised me he would appoint new (named) mods months ago ... nothing, he's still not got his finger out).

So I guess the teacher has left the classroom. 8O



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31 May 2013, 4:10 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Her name was "Friskeygirl".

You could still probably find her profile, and thus the list of her posts.


I was around for that, she wasn't exactly blameless in creating that whole little blowup, throwing personal insults and generalizations around. When you insult people, they tend to insult you back, and you look a little bit silly then getting indignant about the tone of the place when you helped make it that way. Ancient history now anyway.


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31 May 2013, 4:23 pm

Dox47 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Her name was "Friskeygirl".

You could still probably find her profile, and thus the list of her posts.


I was around for that, she wasn't exactly blameless in creating that whole little blowup, throwing personal insults and generalizations around. When you insult people, they tend to insult you back, and you look a little bit silly then getting indignant about the tone of the place when you helped make it that way. Ancient history now anyway.



And what if you unintentionally insult someone? What if you didn't know you insulted them? They insult you back and you think they insulted you for no reason so you insult them back and it goes in circles. The bad guy learns nothing except they think the person who insulted them back is not a nice person.


As some people say, there is no point in insulting someone back if they are too stupid to know they've insulted you so they would be too dumb to know they are getting insulted back.

Thus the reason why aspies are targeted for bullies and jerks because we don't know we said something wrong and then be told by NTs we deserved it what does it do for us? Not saying we are stupid of course. Just the reason for NT bashing and all.


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