Isn't the whole school system messed up and outdated?

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I may have hardly posted when I first joined and shortly after “disappeared”, as thought of being a one timer, but after dealing with a lot of issues in the past month, this may be one of the very few places left for me to feel welcome and express my anti-society views. I been mainly seeking out information about other issues elsewhere while I was “gone”.

Now I may sound like another one of those “I hate school” or “school sucks!” people, but over the past six months or so, I'm beginning to think the whole school system in it's current state isn't very good at all, at least toward those that doesn't fit within society's norm boxes.

First I'll start with myself. If you don't want to read my little history and want to get right to the point, just skip the following in red text till I get back to black text again.

Ever since I was a little boy, I was put in special classes. Of course they thought I was just a problem child and I got picked on by bullies and all that. Even around 6th grade when I was diagnosed with AS, things didn't get much better from the school side of things. Since where I lived there was no kind of schools or anything for “disabled” people like me, I had to go back and forth between one city and another everyday for school. I still had many problems there too.

When I was in 9th grade, I had to go to yet another school for my “special needs”. I didn't really get along with almost half the other students there. It was only that one class for “special needs” students. It wasn't so bad at first, but I got tired of it after awhile. I hardly missed any days at first, but it was very rare if I ever went all five days of the week later on. I didn't even finish the whole school year before moving. I didn't really learn anything useful during the school year.

I would later find out that I couldn't earn credits there. Not because I missed so many things, but because of the system itself. Thus, I had to do 9th grade over, which wasn't even my fault. In other words, I would have never finished high school like you're “suppose to”. I wouldn't get to walk with everyone else, but instead... “here's a paper saying you gone through high school, incorrectly.” From what I understand, the system was pretty much designed so “disabled” students like me would automatic have a much harder future.

After the summer that I moved, I had to go into some program that was suppose to be for students with behavior problems. In my case it was lack of social skills. The program had very strict rules and I didn't really belonged there. It was talked about many times by the staff how “you're holding yourself back from going into regular school”. I was pretty much in a program that was on the brick of sending students to a type of jail if they didn't fix their behavior problems. At least half or more of the students didn't like me there. Somehow, I survived and looking back, I really don't know how. By October 2004, I was finally in a public high school full time taking regular classes. Well, I was almost out of special needs, except for resource class.

Any social skills I was suppose to have learn before entering regular high school full time didn't really worked. At first I had limited social interaction, but over time it increased and I had all kinds of problems dealing with other people, mainly because I wasn't like them. I could go on for quite awhile with the details, but by November 2005, the height of the problems and me rethinking the whole school system, I stopped going to regular high school. I began homeschooling, which I was still doing work from that school by teachers that came over. Even homeschooling stressed me out and still does.

Right now, I still have to finish up a lot of Math during homeschooling that will be rushed, about half the book in about a month, not skipping over any sections. I'm suppose to finish before the end of June. However, where I live, summer for students is between June and July. I'm losing almost half my summer because of this, something that isn't even my fault.

Come August, I'm suppose to go back to the school for 12th grade and take what's left of the four primary subjects so I can finish high school altogether before 2007. However, that means no Resource Class, near top of the line classes, seeing students again who likely hate me, and more. Even if I have to go for only half a year, that doesn't mean I can't totally break down during that time.

As for the whole school system itself, the idea is to learn right? How is jamming our brains full of tons of information suppose to work out the way it does? You're forced to learn a ton of things, most which you would likely forget and likely not help you in life. Force to use up much of your time to learn a bunch of stuff that you may not care about or ever plan on using. “A well rounded education is good!” With the way they do it, I don't think so. I don't really learn a lot of facts, but just forced to remember them long enough to take a test on it and then usually forget.

It seems even worst for “disabled” students. Like I mention in my little history, the situation I was in would have ensured I never walked and instead be left out of many job options. And for what I went do is pretty tame compared to the APPROVED ABUSE by ADULTS that “disabled” children go through in schools. If you don't know what I'm talking about, look no further then what's currently going on in New York State as far as schools goes for “disabled” students. There's surely many more cases of abuse, even for non-disabled students.

It's possible to learn WITHOUT school. Sounds impossible doesn't it? Just because someone doesn't go to school doesn't mean they will grow up to be dumb. Nowadays with the Internet, it's very easy to learn stuff on your own, at your own pace. Learn what you want when you want. Why go through a bunch of stress studying rocks if you plan on working in a bank or something? Why spend so much time focusing on a ton of that when most of it won't be used? When the time comes if we ever want to get into a job that requires certain skills, why not just learn those skills then? At least then we can be focus on learning them and not during the time where we may not really care to learn them, which would be a lot more likely to forget them. We don't have to learn everything in life before 18 by sitting in rooms with teachers telling us everything and doing loads of work to “confirm” that we know it.

Basically, the current school system expects everyone to learn the same way and if a student doesn't learn that way very well, then there MUST be a problem with them. Once we're taught to be able to teach ourselves, shouldn't that be enough to get us on the right foot to learn other stuff? Why learn tons of advanced math if you plan on getting in a career that doesn't require it? If the time comes when those skills will be needed, why not learn then? Now, I know what some of y'all may be thinking, why not learn everything before? Well, how many of y'all who doesn't have perfect memory remember any great amount of details for stuff you may not have liked? How many of y'all remember all the different terms and more that came from science?

What about the dropouts, usually of famous people, who still made it through life? I must of went through some kind of mind change or something to start feeling this way, yet made it this far through school. I guess I got a chance to see the truth or at least the point of view of those against school. I could go on all day about many more details, but then this post would be super long. I know many may disagree with me, but please, at least see the other side of the story. Look at it from the point of view of those against school. You may not agree with them, but please, still take a look. I suggest looking at the against school links provided by Wikipedia. It will give much more insight then what I did. Trust me, it's not just “ZOMG! Skool is teh suck!1!1!!1 I h8 it 'cause i dont wanna do stuff.”

The red is a bit much for the eyes.

I believe in the freedom of education, that there should be more ways of achieving proper education with as much personal choice and ease as possible. We are each born intellectually different thus are good or bad even gifted in certain areas while others differ, obviously.

Focusing on custom tailored education I believe is optimal, standardized I.Q testing and custom tailored educational solutions that are mainstreamed are optimal. Each person is both an investment in the future of America as well as a competitive potential to other countries.

First off,

You seem to have found one of the hidden truths about learning. There is no need for what we call school today for a person to become educated. The quote from Mark Twain comes to mind: "I did not let my schooling get in the way of my education".

Is there a model of education as you spoke of? Yes there is. It is called the Sudbury Valley Model after the Sudbury Valley School in Massachusetts where children are educated in the manner that you spoke of. They have no problems with "Learning Disabilities" and other issues such as ADHD. Most of the children who do graduate either go on to college or begin work or fulfill other dreams in life (there is more to life than school and work).

As far as school, they did the same exact thing with me too (and that was before AS was considered a legitimate diagnosis). They only put me in regular classes when they realized that I was learning (in the exact fashion you mentioned below) what I wanted and was good at it. By then, it was too late because I had already figured that out. In fact, I have found that the best learning I have done was by myself.

I have also worked as a school bus driver. I was appalled that things have not changed at all. Just recently, I heard of a student suspended for the rest of the year because he had the nerve to fight the "pecking order" established in the school. I have also heard of students cussed at by their teacher (and most people approved of it because the child was a behavior problem). I myself feel like I am driving a prison bus taking the prisoners to and from the jail.

I would suggest to you that you read the works of John Taylor Gatto (Google the name and I think one of his books is online and free to read). He was a teacher in NYC and was named New York State Teacher of the Year. Right after that, he retired and wrote about the history of education as we see it today and why it works the way it does. One of his insights is that no reform of the public education system is possible because it works as it is intended to work.

As you can see, I fully agree with you about the education system. I do not want to get into much detail on this board but I have a feeling that the only way to solve the education problem in this country is to dismantle public schools in their entirety (or at least get rid of the compulsory schooling laws).

Well im glad to see some people who agree with my views on school. I am all for learning, but the way it is done in the public schools (here anyway) really didnt teach me anything. I never understood why I had to learn certain things, and why I couldnt learn about subjects that were of interest to me.

Being forced to learn the same material as everyone else, really doesnt seem like a good idea. Like you said, with the internet you can learn whatever you want, how you want, when you want. And this is exactly what I do. Most everything I know, I have taught myself.

I will credit elementary school, as I did learn reading/writing, etc up to a point. But I honestly dont feel I learned a whole heck of a lot past that.

I only made it to 10th grade before I had enough, and got a GED. Great decision on my part.

10th grade was the point I got at, it became very intolerable, I had to leave. There was no ability to tolerate the class-changes, all the informational nonsense and I enjoyed working hard and when structuralized properly getting all A's. I could not in public school but in a private prep school I did tremendously better and it was harder. Much harder and more learned...

Public schools are a crime to the mind, wasting precious time in educational development that does not properly prepare the mind for specialty. Specialty studies should start early on, even if generalized in a few related fields.

School money funding public schools is very wasteful of tax-dollars compared to the potential of a focused and individualized education.

My next study is educational psychology and perhaps early intellectual skills development.

I didn't read your post, but yes public school is BS and probably won't work well for a person with AS, so far, I have found university much easier.

I like the idea of the Sudbury Valley Model. I have heard of Montessori-style schools, but this particular model is not one I have come across, at least to my knowledge. I looked it up on wikipedia, and it seemed to be a really innovative idea.

I am against the idea of public schooling, for the most part, but in our current society, where they want to pass on vouchers to students and persuade their parents to thrust them into private, religious schools, and in the wave of transferring some public-funded schools into private, for-profit schools, as was done in New York a few years ago, I still support the need to fund public schools over the proposed alternatives which are much more crass.

Beyond this, we should be searching for alternatives, because the public school system is effectively controlled and operated by those whom cater to the overarching economic and social elite. Its desire is to dumb down the students, not to increase their levels of intelligence, and turn them into mere automatons for the business world. This actually persists even into college, and standardized testing arrangements ensure that schools are more or less now controlled by the federal government. It could be true, in a few years, even if a public school wanted to do something right, the finances would be denied cause of the "No Child Left Behind Act" ... a truly sinister piece of scholastic garbage.

Take this as a hypothetical example:

Say that there are three schools. Two schools are doing really well, but the other is not. The other school is given a low performance rating, thus is denied extra funding. Yet, the other two schools, whom have no problems, are easily given the funding. This is a complete waste of money, which may end up going to beautification and other such nonsense. Schools whom are doing really well should have their finances cut a bit and given to the one that is not doing so well. When that school reaches a point, then the funding can be said to be equalized. That is how things should be set up in terms of finances.

Think about it: you have three computers. Two are working fine, but the other one isn't. What do you do? Do you give extra money to those whom are working fine? What does that mean for the one who is not? How can you fix anything, if the funding is not being provided? It's a really ridiculous idea, but apparently, people are naive enough to believe it. This is how the "No Child Left Behind Act" works.

- Ray M -

I couldn't think of the name until after I posted, but another person who had some interesting ideas about formal education was John Holt. Here is a page with links to some of his writings:
http://www.holtgws.com/johnholtpage.html

He is considered an early advocate for homeschooling, but he originally wrote about learning in general and the difficulties with formal educational systems.

I couldn't agree with you much more.

That's really all I have to say, I guess. Just throwing in my two cents.

Actually, John Holt first supported reform of the existing system and upon coming to the realization that the existing system could not be reformed, then turned to alternatives such as homeschooling.

True, the issue of copying what goes on in school is that you end up copying what is truely bad about school to begin with.

"because the public school system is effectively controlled and operated by those whom cater to the overarching economic and social elite. Its desire is to dumb down the students, not to increase their levels of intelligence, and turn them into mere automatons for the business world."

Karl Marx would highly agree with your statement. The elites all have their children in private schools. I have something to add. The lack of funding to poverty ridden school districts reduces opprotunties to rise in the social hierarchy. Because of this, many children in these districts don't go to college - but take menial jobs. The educational system keeps them as a source of cheap labor and prevents upsetting the status quo.

Schools teach conformity early on - from kindergarten. This also keeps the system intact. By punishing students for disturbing the status quo, as lj mentioned, keeps the status quo intact.

This idea has been floating around in my head for a time, and I'll just chuck it out to see what people think of it. I think that American schools should do what the German schools do after primary school: 1 school for the mechanical trades, one school for those with disabilities, and one school for college prep. The only modification I would make would be allowing ANY student, regardless of disability, to enter college prep if they so wished.

Makes sense. Students who don't want to go to college can have a skill to support themselves with, as opposed to ending up at Mc Donalds, college students get their thing, and everyone's happy.

The current schooling system does have imperfections, no rational person would ever describe the American school system as perfect as it does fail in many instances to help students succeed. However, I do not believe this to be a cause for it to be dismantled but rather it just needs to be restructured and its programs need to be improved. Aspies are the most to suffer under every system, which is part of the problem. Restructuring can happen and must happen but doing so will be very difficult because few schools like to change due to all of the opposition that would inevitably occur, it is not like we can really expect that good results would occur for the masses without trying to form some form of public school, if we have home-schooling then people will shirk their duties and we will have even less educated people(although it is possible that aspies would do better under this system).

The idea that schools are intentionally bad is ludicrious though. Governments don't want it because better educated people make more money and increase tax revenue, corporations don't want it because better educated people give them a better workforce allowing them to effectively make better products, heck, corporate leaders complain that our students are undereducated claiming that we are losing our edge in the sciences. Corporations are even big supporters of scholarships and such too. The rich don't care about us, they realize that educated lower classes benefit them anyway, that is one of the reasons that public schooling became available in the first place, Jacksonian common man democracy made them fearful of an uneducated mob with the right to vote. Heck, better education of the masses would probably make them richer because of better employees to work with computers or wherever these people are needed. Considering the fact that there are many immigrants that want in to the nation anyway, there is little worry for unskilled labor, there is probably too much of it anyway.

No child left behind probably was a stupid idea, it enforces the idea that these remedial standardized tests were important, although the funding thing is questionable, some think like you do and others think that human organizations work differently than computers, rather than throwing money at these districts to fix the problem it makes incentives to do well and disincentives for not doing well, part of the problem has always been that money is wasted anyway as school districts are very often very corrupt. However, I really don't have data on whether the economics of "no child left behind" in terms of funding was really a good thing or not.

I highly disagree with you, awesomely. Schools are intentionally bad, it's just more subtle. Schools in poor neighborhoods are bad because they are intentionally underfunded. For instance, school milliages are taken from property taxes. In poverty-stricken areas, property values are lower. Also, income taxes are lower and that also translates into less school funding. Therefore, richer school distrcits get higher tax revenew while poorer students get less.

This explains the "digital divide," poor facilities, and poor performance of students in lower-income districts. Less $$= less learning opprotunties.

Blame it on my social work major.