I just tore up my degrees

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We all need to just become high school dropouts and get union jobs shoveling s**t. That's the future of the U.S. economy.

I can't believe these douches right out of high school are making more than I've ever made.

OK, SadAspy, I'm going to take this from another angle:

Do you have the skills that these peers have? The skills that got them and are making them successful in these "direct from high school" jobs? Give it some deep thought; it isn't always obvious what skills someone with less education might have that you don't, but they exist. Most of these are things that people tend to either have, or not have, and most of them are things that I, at this point in my life, am well aware that I do not have, and that I am also aware most employers value for good reasons:

Organizational skills
Infectious positive attitude
Networking / people skills
Work speed
Physical strength or agility / strong fine or gross motor skill
Mental strength / nothing gets to you
Fearless, "go for it" attitude

And so on.

Someone gifted with those skills may slip into a career in sales, construction, the trades, transportation, manufacturing et al without a higher education, and do quite well at it. But do you have those skills?

If you don't, as I pretty much didn't, then that was never a real option for you. I was horrible at my high school summer jobs, really struggling to find my place and add value. For someone else, maybe those summer jobs could have led to a career, but for me that was never going to happen. What I NEEDED to acquire to make my way in the world was a unique knowledge set that held value in and by itself. So, I am a CPA / tax specialist. I get paid to know and understand what few people have the patience or intelligence for, and by holding that knowledge base I can get away with being slow, or less than perfect socially, etc etc etc.

You may think that a job like cleaning houses is easy, something anyone could do, but I have now hired enough different maid services to know that is NOT the case. A good maid service has to do your house right, get it cleaned top to bottom, in a few short hours. So they have to be fast. And every home they walk into has different priorities, and different guidelines, so they have to remember and follow all those nit picky details while also being fast and thorough. This is considered one of the most basic jobs in the world, but guess what? I could not do that job! I would be HORRIBLE at it.

So it is a dang good thing that I got an education and don't have to try.

Getting into the workforce was hard for me, even with my very marketable degree. I was nervous in interviews, completely unaware of what employers really looked for, and so on and so on. My first few jobs after school didn't go all that well because they didn't allow me much opportunity to do what I do best. It was all a rough time, and I didn't have to start in nearly as difficult an economy as you are having to start in.

So, OK, it sucks. You are off to a really rough and disappointing start.

But don't start thinking you would magically have it better on the road that Jane Smith took, because here is another reality: you are not Jane Smith. You have no idea what factors allowed Jane Smith to be successful, and even less idea if you could have duplicated any of them.

So you got your degrees and tried to give yourself the best shot you could for the unique person you are. Don't EVER regret that, no matter how frustrating it gets.

Someday I hope you can look back on the path and understand where you went right. And if not that, at least that there was a positive reason your life went the way it did.

For almost every crappy thing I went through, I really can look back now and say, "oh, I had to go through that because ..."

Getting to the other side of this rough spot will be hard, but you WILL get through.

That says a lot.

I'm coming up on my 10 year anniversary of graduating law school. While I chose not to practice law, I figured I'd have no problem finding a good job (9/11 happened just as I finished school). Well, it's 10 years and I'm in a dead-end job. I can't find a good career opportunity to save my life, but someone who finished the same time I did (and lives in the same region) is doing well...last I checked.

The only "wake up call" I get over feeling inadequate is that this guy got his first job (clerking for a federal judge) because his daddy pulled some strings to open that door. That job led to getting on with the local prosecutor's office. That job led to getting a contract position with the federal DOJ office...where I believe he is today.

So, it was his family connections that got his foot in the door. Would he be so "successful" but for that opportunity? I don't know. I don't have such connections. I don't do well opening doors on my own. I can't compare myself to others who enjoy certain "advantages" over me.

@OP

So, with a master’s degree, have you considered teaching?

In my neck of the woods the local community college is always looking for adjunct faculty.

Part time work, especially work that uses your degree is better than no work at all.

My favorite sociology professor started as a community college adjunct professor.

After getting her foot in the door, she’s adjunct faculty at the college, at the university, and she has a full time position doing data analysis for the college too!

How sad it is that these are more valued than intelligence and knowledge?

I'm really sick and tired of the glorification of blue-collar work. Unfortunately, I think it's only getting worse. We're creating a white-collar underclass (i.e. educated people who are unemployed or underemployed), while idolizing those who did poorly in high school.



Agree completely.



Would love to teach. Have applied for several teaching positions...have never heard back. I'm guessing it's due to my lack of experience, although I was a TA in grad school.

That is a horrible idea. You should never go 100k in debt for an education degree. You'll never earn enough money to pay that back as a teacher. Heck, in my state teachers are paid so little they qualify for food stamps.

SadAspy, I've been in the work world long enough now to understand why those skills are valued. Business is about making money, creating the most consistently solid product possible at the least cost. Even in a knowledge based profession, most of the actual work day is churning out rote work. But you can't see it as rote work, or you won't send out the expected quality product. In my job you have to be organized, fast, sharp eye for detail, neat, able to simplify the complex pleasantly for a client, and smart enough to know when it's time to turn off the production machine and think. I get away with being slower by putting out a perfect product and being brilliant when everything is falling apart, but I still see how and why other skill set balances add a lot of value.

If you don't value any of those qualities, you don't yet understand business. If you don't understand business, you are going to have a difficult time showing a potential employer how you would add value. This is a gap that needs to get filled so that you can be effective in your job search.

I saw the first positive spark from you in this discussion when someone mentioned teaching. I hope you will pursue that. Join networking groups; whatever. Connect to people who are teaching, and see if they can point you in the right direction. One thing I've observed over the years is that positive attitude - and a few little connections - both make a big difference.

Why do you assume I'm applying mostly with businesses? I mostly apply for government or non-profit jobs.



I didn't say they shouldn't be valued at all, but MORE than intelligence and education?

With regards to manual labor specifically, you're right...I don't value these skills. Monkeys, machines, or cheap Mexicans can do these jobs. There. I SAID IT, and I don't care who I offended either. I'm sick of these people who've never been to college thinking they're entitled to 60 grand a year, while me, zeronetgain, and cyanide are punished for being responsible. And don't tell me it's the free market either...it's unions like the UAW whose greed bankrupted the auto industry, which then required a government bailout. Then these slackers whine that government should retrain them.



Yeah, but I've never gotten a callback when I applied for these jobs.

There is a rub there....

If he is in the USA, consolidates with the Department of Education and goes into the Income Contingent Repayment or Income Based Repayment plans, if he works for a government agency (most all public schools should qualify), in 10 years of qualified payments in that job his loans would be forgiven tax-free.

So, unless public schools don't count as government entities, he'd not have to worry about how to repay the loans in that job.

Just another reason I switched from History to Technology Education...

My apologies for not watching the precision in my language. I use the term "business" here broadly, as in anyone hiring. I know there are some variations in what private sector jobs look for v. public sector, but most of what I wrote still applies, you just have to change a few words around. My employment experience is in the private sector, so I'm just used to talking business. But I've done a lot of pro-bono stuff in the public sector, as well, so I'm not totally clueless on what job applicants need.

When I said in another post that "government isn't hiring anyone" I meant that as a net term, ie overall they are cutting back more than they are expanding, which means that most vacancies can be filled by someone with experience in that particular type of job, even if it wasn't required, they will usually hire from among their own first.



It depends on the exact job. If the job is to sit at a desk and meet with the public, then inter-personal skills will be a high priority. If the job is to analyze statistics and patterns, then relevant education will take precedence. The truth is the day to day work of most jobs is a mixture, and employers will value or not value education depending on how often they need the creative or technical thinking, and how easy it is to find the right information in a reference book, v. already knowing it.

My point in bringing it up is not to say the education does not have value, but to help you understand how employers see the value, which is as just one piece in a bigger puzzle. You can't just send out resumes and assume the education sells itself; you have to address all the other facets an employer might look for. With each job you apply for, you will have to consider how the education is going to weigh, and how far it will get you.

Unfortunately I know nothing about how a political science degree might get used in the real world, so I can't get more specific. The political science majors I know tend to be involved in some version of sales and marketing, which to me reflects more of who they always were, than the specific degree earned, although they needed to have a degree (in almost anything) to get the foot in the door, too.

I'm in a profession that attracts shy people, yet excelling requires that you be good with people. The person who can talk the client into believing he is the best CPA in the world will do better than than the one who actually is the best CPA in the world. Because regardless of how good your work is, if you haven't convinced the client that it is good, you've lost. And, so, the smart enough former jocks move ahead fast and the smarter technicians have to find a niche.

When I interviewed people, I had been around long enough to know who would get frustrated with that reality, and who would thrive under it. My job was to hire those who would thrive under it, even if they were the weaker candidate today.

The same is true in law, actually, from what I've observed.

List positions that interest you and I'll tell you the skills I would assume the employer is going to be looking for.



Network. Don't give up. The last teaching position I saw open up got 200 applications. Which means you will probably have to try 200 times to get a bite. Accept the numbers game and keep at it.

'A master's degree in teaching'. First of all, interpersonal skills are essentially a degree of intelligence, as such, are in demand. Second, a 'master's of teaching'; there is a reason why your unemployed, just as there is a distinction between Liberal ARTS, and Sciences. Teachers memorize and apply, it is entirely hand's on, practically inferior. Sciences are innovated, authenticated of creativity, and progressive of self-education. A Master's Degree in teaching pales in comparison, it should be more than given, if not transparent of obvious reason as to why you are unemployed.
In short description, your knowledge is an Associate's of Computer Science. It is easy, more people do it, this is why you lack self-control and self sense of introspection.
Your welcome.

You should write motivational books.

I will say this. I'm jealous. You managed to create a scene here and get 6 pages worth of responses, while my posts got jack s__t!


If I were in your shoes with an MA in hand I would strongly consider going back into school for a PhD or pick up a teaching certificate to teach social studies and political science, but if you are Aspie like me, teaching K-12 may not be the best bet since it rides more on personality and organization/multitasking skills, than research and knowledge experience.

Consider an add-on or go for a funded PhD program. I'm in a terminal Masters program now and I am beginning to think its a waste of time or a route delay that leads nowhere. With the glut of undergraduate degrees out there, the Masters has become the new Bachelors, the Bachelors the new High School diploma. Masters degrees are only good if directly applied as in MBA, a Masters in Education, Counseling, Library Science etc...

If you knowingly hire those with more social skills vs those who may be the better technicians, are you not perpetuating that reality? Why not stand up and slowly make a change?
Start hiring the most qualified and document the results.

Anyone frustrated with the social jungle, dog-eat-dog approach of the workplace, I highly recommend reading Karen Ho's "Liquidated: An Ethnography of Wall Street".
http://www.dukeupress.edu/Catalog/ViewP ... ctid=13226

Unless we are willing to dedicate ourselves to change and helping each other, we are all doomed.

All I see is a privileged Republican in the making sharing his persecution fantasies. The glorification of blue collar work? Are you serious?