Research and writing at postgraduate level

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For background purposes, my research, which is still ongoing, consists of a massive electrochemical corrosion study (which involves ~5 separate electrochemical test methods), as well as compositional anaylsis of nano-scale (1-10 nm) oxides under numerous electrochemical conditions (using another 4-8 test methods).
What I mean in the first bolded part of the previous post is that, for my proposal, I have written half of it, which is pretty good albeit twice the size that portion should have been, but I couldn't order the theories of my test methods, literature review of the use of those methods in my area of research, and how I propose to use those methods in my own research. I could never find a logical order for describing the different tests and what other researchers have done because my electrochemical tests affect the analysis techniques I need to use, and vise versa. I have written and rewritten parts because I have been shuffling them around, but I can never find a good way to order them.
I suppose other aspies might get this, but my feeling is that I am trying to describe a revolving sphere of information in a linear fashion and it can't be done. NTs don't understand that when I've said it before. The different concepts, theories and methods are intertwined in a way that I cannot put in a simple one after the other order. I have no problem writing journal articles of 10 000 to 15 000 words on any particular test program within the scope of my PhD work, but putting all of my different tests together just doesn't ever work.
The second bolded part of my previous post referes to how I feel about my masters thesis, for virtually the same reason, and how I know I would feel if I finished my proposal and thesis. I was never completely satisfied with my masters thesis. The order of that thesis bothered me, and I was not happy with the limited amount detail I could include (the original draft was 50% longer than the final draft) after I edited it to satisfy my supervisor. I still feel like my masters thesis doesn't stand on its own, an intelligent person would have to ask me about the background of the work in order to understand the reason for what I did and how. I can freestyle aspie rant for hours on my work, but that is because I can jump back and forth, the loss of that freedom in the thesis screws me. Intellectually and in course marks I am far ahead of my peers, but my masters thesis and my proposal as it is now do not reflect that. Working as PhD engineering scientist would mean that my PhD thesis would be my resume, more or less, and one I am not happy with wouldn't serve me well in that regard. My honesty would make it hard for me to promote myself based on it, since I would be more inclined to point out the bad parts in an interview.
So basically, I could produce something that could be submitted, and my supervisor has given good feedback on what I have finished, but have hit a wall with my PhD and haven't produced. As far as being objective about whether it is as good as anyone else's, that never worked for me. I have always felt that my work has to be as good as I feel I can make it, regardless of what others do, so I have to pass my approval or I really feel like I am cheating or being unethical. That is the feeling of disservice to the community you described. In my case, I would absolutely be doing a disservice to the community by not finishing my research, but it will be done, and I will publish short journal articles in order to make the information public.
I agree that it is worthwhile to keep going when we are up against this, but I have been "keep going"ing for too long and I feel that I need to move on in order to maintain my personal wellbeing, and to salvage what I still have left of my self confidence. I know that I could finish a PhD had I started any of a dozen other projects that I had the opportunity to, but I chose a very complicated one, so it is what it is.

Yeah, as badly as I want to get my Ph.D in the future, this is what concerns me about grad school. I also need to basically write until I'm finished, and I LOATHE writing to begin with. It has always been a source of great anxiety for me, since I never know what's "right." I hate the whole subjectivity part of writing. I've always been a very good writer, but I don't know WHY. I never know when it's "finished" or if it's "good." I rarely revise my writing unless somebody who reads it mentions a specific change. I really don't know how. The one good thing, though, is that I do enjoy writing about my special interests, which is why I really had no trouble writing my 30-page undergrad senior thesis.

Really, what concerns me more about grad school is the social aspect. I've struggled with writing anxiety my whole life, and it's something I can always manage to get through, but what scares me is hearing tales of catty social politics in academia. And I think the extremely high prevalence of this social cattiness is relatively modern. When I was growing up, grad school was still a place where the most passionate learners went to finally be accepted and get to hyperfocus, but I think the more social realm is an inevitable flaw of how more and more people are going on to get higher and higher degrees, even though they aren't true "geeks" and don't have the true passion that graduate students used to possess.

What do you mean by this? I recently (end of last year) completed a PhD, but since I don't know what you mean, I can't say whether or not I experienced it in my 4ish years.

Dear Seventh,

The answer to your first query is a definite: YES. I completely understand the focus needed to maintain concentration while reading! I used five different highlighters, always.

I was working on a B.A in International Relations/Global Studies for two years before I lost my matriculation. I was a junior at the University of Washington before they kicked me out for poor academic scholarship: due to undiagnosed (now diagnosed ASD). I received my diagnosis too late, even though I had been seeking help for two quarters prior. Despite losing my status I was one of the better students in my classes during lecture. I was often given praise from my Professors when I wrote papers or presented ideas, one going as far as to say it was post-graduate level. I perform poorly under stress so my papers were often late, in need of extensions. They couldn't see how I could go from knowing all the material to not being able to write about it

The problem is: too many variations, possible ways of talking about something, too many ideas, "how do I demonstrate in such a small space why all of these things are relevant without leaving any one of them out!?" moments. I'm not a top down thinking, but a systematic thinker, bottom up. Each idea gives me more ideas and its hard to talk about them in such a linear fashion. So a solution I was told was to keep a journal and write down all those ideas that I thought I had to do justice towards by compulsively adding them into my papers, creating more work for myself, and instead write them in a safe place that I could come back to and revisit them. You need ways to keep you grounded in what's pertinent to the situation, the gestalt. That is sometimes hard for people with autism because the devil is in the details for us.

I can get so engrossed in a topic I can't de-attach myself from it, with my health suffering, sometimes months after I finish writing it.

You're most assuredly suited for Ph.D. if you can take multiple streams of information and find their tangential links. You just need to research schools that cater to your academic style. One thing I wish I took to heart is work at your own pace, seriously. I wish I didn't push myself so hard to finish, burning out. If you can publish something of quality when you're that high up in academia, quantity means less and less. Vision is needed!

I held close to my chest the idea of an academic career, but to have an academic career you need to be able to get published, meet deadlines (I was always asking for extensions), and write a lot (liberal arts/social science majors) from what I understand. You can always work with someone however as a coping strategy. If you find a research partner you can contribute that way. I worked best in a two man cell where I did the research and she put the bones down, fleshing it with my research, and her organization.

I had a hard time writing based on what you described above and my psychologist also was amazed at the quality of my writing for having struggled intensely to bring it to the fore. Please understand pursuing an academic career is possible for you, but also keep in mind the complicated mental process that IS paper writing. I was initially diagnosed with Non-verbal LD before I found out about my AS. Papers will take you twice as long to write than an average peer, that is why working in groups was so beneficial to me, because of the accountability and structure that I didn't have to lose sleep over. When I wrote papers alone sometimes I felt as though I had often become my paper because of the amount of strain I had put into creating it - I didn't merely regurgitate what I read - I actually went about my assignments it like a post-grad would, with a slow and deep analysis. The problem is was it wasn't suitable for the kind of undergraduate work I was doing where you're just supposed to run off papers. My Professors told me if I could just get over undergraduate I would succeed.

You my friend have succeeded and post-graduate is possible. You just need to start networking and working with your fellow students and past professors you loved/respected. Lots of people work in groups to produce papers. I have not succeeded yet in getting my BA due to losing my matriculation status, so I'm thinking about pursuing computer science based, because I don't think I'm cut out to do that much writing for the amount it affected my health. You can do a lot with a Master's that you can't do with a B.A., so kudos.

Before I knew about my diagnosis that's what I thought "I shall overcome", which is a good, optimistic approach. However, it blindsides you sometimes, and I ran into a brick wall - my way of learning in the face of societies way of learning - and I lost my footing over it.

I completely understand the agony and pain writing that thesis must have been for you and you are my hero if there ever was one. I think you'd be in a better position to tell all of us how YOU managed to do all your undergraduate work in order to get into post-graduate work, which smart individuals with AS would excel at, imo.

There are AS-specific ways of dealing with obligations and its called a personal assistance or academic partner. I can think of a lot of authors whose wives helped them keep it together. I have yet to find intuitive software of any kind that helps adults with AS organize their lives, set priorities, and keep on task. Why I say this is a lot of executive dysfunction can be mitigated with technological devices and for people with a short window of working memory, which is why paper writing is so strenuous. Try to find some software for organizing your writing, I can't remember one that comes to mind, but you can write blurbs and move them around like objects, colour-coded.

You have to find devices with apps that can help you overcome your challenges.

Best of luck to you,

Last edited by Antreus on 09 Jul 2012, 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

This is what I dealt with too. I know how people go about making outlines for papers but the method works counter-intuitively for how my brain processes information. I know how its done but I don't know HOW to do it effectively with success that outperforms my spew cut-paste revision method. For every one writing assignment, I would rewrite that assignment at least two times over, sometimes starting from scratch because how confused I had become in my OWN writing.

I am a good writer, but it is also the source of so much anxiety. The research format I also had a hard time digesting too. I couldn't wrap my brain around it without a lot agony. I went to a research university because I wanted to be pushed in such a way that I could acquire confidence and skill in writing, which I did, but it panned out to my detriment in the end. I loathed deadlines, but at the same time needed them present, even though I often had to ask for extensions. Thus I get worse grades than I ought, even though the quality is superior. I always put in so much effort, work ethic wasn't the problem.

I had all those issues you listed and my best work was always done if I met with my professor during office hours as much as possible if they were amicable towards me.

I can totally see how careerism has destroyed academia for a lot of minds.

Last edited by Antreus on 09 Jul 2012, 4:01 am, edited 4 times in total.

Everything here is what I went through, wow. Your testimony is parallel to my approach and problems I had in academia. I was always told to cut back. I tended to have too much written and by downsizing what I wrote I considerably lessened the impact of my points. I can't have my work be as good as anyone elses either. I work according to my own value stamp and this stamp is a blessing and a curse in all the ways you described. Wow, even down to salvaging your self-confidence, so sympathetic to you.

I think what is so sad is that people with ASD /know/ so much about how things are connected and at the same time don't have enough /know-how/ to work within conventions competitively. I was enrolled in college every quarter for 7 years, I kept struggling, transferred to University and all I have to show for it is a generic AA degree, and a sack of debt I just paid off. It is almost do or die for me at this point too, just to echo some of you above, and it is motivating. B.A/S or bust. By the time I get my B.A I'll probably be close to 30, I'm 25 now.

I've heard lots of stories about how professors jealously feud and debate over each other's work, and if you unknowingly invite a professor who hates your advisor to be on your committee, they will snub your work, no matter how good. Just because they hate your advisor. I also have heard tales of graduate advisors making grad students fudge data just so they can get a study published. Basically making up results. This kind of cattiness.

Ah, OK. I've heard of some of that in my own field, particularly the stuff about academics feuding with one another. People can be that way when refereeing papers, too (though I haven't had first-hand experience of that, thankfully!). I guess by committee, you mean a set of people examining your thesis. That works differently over here. We tend to just have two people (one of which is from your department) and they're chosen by your supervisor. I'd imagine the problem of having an examiner that hates your supervisor is rare (if not unheard of) here, for that reason.

All those tales you've heard are true.

My father, with undiagnosed but obvious Aspergers, has a pretty successful career as a geologist, and publishes first author twice a year or so. He says it gets easier over time.

Right now, I'm writing up research for the first time (senior in HS) and I want to slam my head into my keyboard with the maximum amount of force that will not destroy my laptop. Apparently, everyone writing things up for the first time feels like this, but most who keep trying succeed, so I have reason to believe it does get better.

I can totally relate- am about to start a PhD which is 100 000 words and am totally terrified! Can you break it down into 5000/10 000 word sections? Might make it easier to deal with, that's how I'm doing mine. Luckily I'm doing a 'short story' collection so only need to focus on 5000 words at a time, and all the research is specific to each story. They need to link in an overall theme though which is the part I'm finding hardest. I'm also doing it part-time to take some of the pressure off.

Are you doing a PhD. in English ?

It's in Creative Writing looking at how the retelling of traditional fairy tales can be used to explore ideas about identity. I did a few stories/poems about it last year so hoping to look at it in more detail with 10-15 short stories based on different fairy tales then one, longer piece based on The Little Mermaid (Andersen)- the idea of a hybrid identity versus liminality/stuck between two separate worlds and how that affects the subjectivity/sense of self of the merperson. My dissertation last year was a retelling of The Little Mermaid from a non-gendered, asexual perspective and I'm hoping to develop that idea with more research and in more depth, didn't have enough space in the word count to go into detail. Can't wait to get started properly! Thinking of (unofficially) angling it towards ASD issues while looking at how fairy tales can be used as part of therapy (I got more out of writing/studying fairy tales than I have done from 7 years of seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist/occupational therapist) but I might need to do some psychology courses for that. Getting really excited fairy tales are my main interest and can't believe I'll get to write 100 000 words about it!

I'm very happy that this area enriches you the way it does.

Enjoy your journey.