Which is better Community College or University?

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OregonBecky
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17 Jun 2009, 11:30 am

immersive wrote:
What a terrific suggestion! Many universities offer online courses which may be a good fit for him (my department offers several, but for select courses only, mostly at the introductory level). There are possible pitfalls, however. Lacking the direct interaction with the teacher in the classroom, students can more easily become lost or confused. If they aren't motivated to get help, they may end up suffering in silence and doing poorly in the class. Just something to be aware of - I don't know about him, but I imagine someone with AS or HFA might be reluctant to ask for help if they are lost.


I talked to him about it last night. He reminded me that one of the reasons he loves school is because he gets to help the other students. He has trouble socializing and doing normal chit chat so when he starts a class, he busts his butt to learn everything so he can help other people. The teachers say he's very helpful and they like a student who wants to learn mainly to help the others. It's his way of socializing. He couldn't do that online.


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riverotter
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17 Jun 2009, 11:47 am

OregonBecky wrote:
He reminded me that one of the reasons he loves school is because he gets to help the other students. He has trouble socializing and doing normal chit chat so when he starts a class, he busts his butt to learn everything so he can help other people. The teachers say he's very helpful and they like a student who wants to learn mainly to help the others. It's his way of socializing. He couldn't do that online.

What a wonderful way to compensate, to use his difficulty to help others. Your son sounds like the kind of person I aspire to be. If only more people would be more like him. The stereotype is that Aspies are selfish... how untrue!



OregonBecky
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17 Jun 2009, 12:09 pm

riverotter wrote:
OregonBecky wrote:
He reminded me that one of the reasons he loves school is because he gets to help the other students. He has trouble socializing and doing normal chit chat so when he starts a class, he busts his butt to learn everything so he can help other people. The teachers say he's very helpful and they like a student who wants to learn mainly to help the others. It's his way of socializing. He couldn't do that online.

What a wonderful way to compensate, to use his difficulty to help others. Your son sounds like the kind of person I aspire to be. If only more people would be more like him. The stereotype is that Aspies are selfish... how untrue!


Some aspies feel too awkward to reach out, I think. Last week I sent an email to Oregon's Dept of Ed and told them that I think a lot of very smart aspies aren't socially mature enough for college but could be valuable resources for the high schools as volunteer tutors. It could be a program to help the aspies learn what they need to learn, an extra step to prepare for the world, as they help the high schools during these economic cut backs. They replied with a note that seemed more than a boiler plate reply. I hope they really think about doing this.

My son tutored in high school and still does. He hangs around the tutoring room waiting for students. I gave him little magic tricks so that he has something to talk about when he's not teaching and someone is hanging around. It makes him approachable and socialization happens more naturally.


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riverotter
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17 Jun 2009, 12:36 pm

OregonBecky,
I wish every thread on WP was like this.
I wish real life was like this.
I wish I had been able to have conversations like this when I was trying to make tough decisions...this really makes me feel like people can work together to reach common societal goals...for the good of individuals- aspie or NT- and for the good of all-- *tear*



OregonBecky
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17 Jun 2009, 12:48 pm

riverotter wrote:
OregonBecky,
I wish every thread on WP was like this.
I wish real life was like this.
I wish I had been able to have conversations like this when I was trying to make tough decisions...this really makes me feel like people can work together to reach common societal goals...for the good of individuals- aspie or NT- and for the good of all-- *tear*


Wow. Thanks. I wish we had a society where we didn't think the American Dream was to figure out how to own enough stuff so you don't need anyone and then isolate yourself from team efforts. Most of the ASD people I hang around with have amazing imaginations. I love playing improv games with them and thinking up "what if" things. We can go on and on forever with weird fun thoughts. So much potential for doing amazing things.

I miss being a hippie. We could be weird in individual ways but we could still pull together when we needed to create art or music or dance or write some anti-war thing in an underground paper.


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ruennsheng
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18 Jun 2009, 12:59 am

Yep. We can only hope --- in fact the same ideal could be said even in Singapore, where I live now.



musicislife
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19 Jun 2009, 3:00 pm

I just graduated from high school and am going to a community college this fall. I've visited the college several times and was in a summer choir there last year so I know my way around it well enough. I wanted to go to a small school so I wouldn't stress out too much about the transition from my high school to my new college.

I know that I'll have to transfer eventually considering my new school doesn't have the major I know I'm going into but community college is a great place for me to start. The best things about it: the school is only a few miles from my front door so I can live at home; its cheaper than a 4-year school; most of my friends from high school are going there; and best of all the school is, relative to the 4-year schools I looked at, small. I won't even consider a school of over 10000 students after community college because I wouldn't be able to handle it. Can you say "crowd induced panic attack?"

Just reading through this thread has helped me a lot, so thank you all!


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musicislife
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19 Jun 2009, 3:00 pm

I just graduated from high school and am going to a community college this fall. I've visited the college several times and was in a summer choir there last year so I know my way around it well enough. I wanted to go to a small school so I wouldn't stress out too much about the transition from my high school to my new college.

I know that I'll have to transfer eventually considering my new school doesn't have the major I know I'm going into but community college is a great place for me to start. The best things about it: the school is only a few miles from my front door so I can live at home; its cheaper than a 4-year school; most of my friends from high school are going there; and best of all the school is, relative to the 4-year schools I looked at, small. I won't even consider a school of over 10000 students after community college because I wouldn't be able to handle it. Can you say "crowd induced panic attack?"

Just reading through this thread has helped me a lot, so thank you all!


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OregonBecky
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19 Jun 2009, 4:18 pm

musicislife wrote:
I just graduated from high school and am going to a community college this fall. I've visited the college several times and was in a summer choir there last year so I know my way around it well enough. I wanted to go to a small school so I wouldn't stress out too much about the transition from my high school to my new college.

I know that I'll have to transfer eventually considering my new school doesn't have the major I know I'm going into but community college is a great place for me to start. The best things about it: the school is only a few miles from my front door so I can live at home; its cheaper than a 4-year school; most of my friends from high school are going there; and best of all the school is, relative to the 4-year schools I looked at, small. I won't even consider a school of over 10000 students after community college because I wouldn't be able to handle it. Can you say "crowd induced panic attack?"

Just reading through this thread has helped me a lot, so thank you all!


It's helping me think things through, too. Our community college is small and they are very interested in and open to suggestions for ways to make things better for aspies. ASD is trendy now and they don't have many answers about what works so they listen with open minds and try to work with us. Some of us have been passing the word around that this college is supportive of aspies. We're hoping it will bring in a bigger aspie population and then there will be more ideas and support and more sense of belonging.


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Nan
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19 Jun 2009, 4:30 pm

One more thing to consider - you can't always transfer to a 4 year university from a community college. Once you've gone to any college, some universities will not accept you. It's a "come in as a freshman or don't come at all." Some other universities insist that you have a specific sequence of classes completed before you can transfer in. It would be good to look at the final destination prior to enrolling in a community college if there's a chance that a 4-year degree (or higher) is the ultimate goal. If you're just set on going to XYZ University, and XYZ University doesn't take transfer students, don't do that year of community college.

My first suggestion is to try to figure out what the major will be. That's hard to do, but if there's even a hint of which way the student will be leaning, check the final school destinations that have that major. Not all four-year schools offer all majors. Then look at their requirements. Does the school even accept transfer students? Do they have requirements that the student will have met?

If you have a decent idea where the student will ultimately end up, and if that place will accept a transfer student, a community college is a great place to explore various disciplines. It's really the major that's important, though - You want to eventually be where you can study things of interest to you. I've worked at my present institution for well into two decades. I used to do student advising and it was always so sad when a new admit (or worse yet, a sophomore) showed up in my office saying they were going to major in business (this university does not have a business department) or musical theatre (the theatre department does not do musical theatre - at all). They'd just spent a year and a half taking general ed courses and couldn't even end up with the degree they really wanted. But they didn't dare tell mom and dad.

THEN look at their placement rates. Getting a diploma from any school doesn't guarantee a job or career in that field. Some schools do a much better job at getting their graduates placed. Some offer almost no services.

Have a few different schools in mind, in case the student is not accepted at the first choice.

You might also look at the structure of the school. Some use the "house" system, some the "college" system, and some are just huge factories. A large school using the house system might serve an Aspie as well as a smaller school, given that they would be grounded in a house with other students of similar interests and have that continuity and structure as resources. Similarly, schools using the "college" system, where there are separate colleges for larger divisions in academia (fine arts, humanities, social sciences, hard sciences, etc.) cut down the massiveness of some of the bigger schools. Best to request literature and look 'em over really well as far as environment goes. There may have to be some trade-offs between size of school (comfort level for Aspie) and the desired major being offered.

When in doubt, don't be afraid to back off. Once you use your financial aid package, it's gone. You're only given a certain number of hours' aid, if you get aid, and once you use them up you don't get a "do-over". In some states, even if you're not on financial aid, you can only take a certain number of courses before they'll politely ask you to finish up, as you're taking up space another student needs. If you end up at State U and after a year decide that you want a different major, and they don't have it at State U, get out of there. Go where it's offered.

Best of luck to the future academics on the board!



PS for those not familiar with the US ed system, it's first elementary/middle/high school (or some permutation thereof, that is mandatory and free) then - post-secondary (which is not mandatory and not usually free) which can be any of:

1) trade schools (Typically a one or two year certificate in a trade - hairdressing, auto mechanic, nursing assistant, etc. and typically privately owned and run)

or

Community College/ Junior College (Usually state-funded, typically a two-year program that can be quite similar to a trade school, or that can be an academic program similar to the first two years of a 4-year university. Only lower-division basic courses will be available at a community college.) The instructors' quality can be all over the spectrum from excellent to someone who can't get a "real" position at four year school and so freelances teaching a course here and a course there.


2) University (the term "college" tends to be used interchangeably for University by a lot of people)

Widely generalized: subset 1 - teaching universities. Their primary mission is teaching students. Some research may happen, but it's not primary to the mission. Some of these schools may only offer 4 years of study leading to a bachelor degree. Some may have graduate degrees available.

subset 2 - research universities. The primary mission of a research university is, you guessed it! They also teach, but the emphasis of their teaching is really at the graduate level. Undergrads are often taught by Teaching Assistants, who are graduate students, until they are in the more advanced undergraduate courses. These schools typically offer bachelors', masters', and doctoral degrees. Some may not have the option of masters - you go straight on through for a PhD once you finish your bachelor's if you happen to stay there. The quality of the undergraduate instruction is pretty much determined by the quality of the graduate programs (in my experience).

subset 3 - graduate schools. No undergraduate degrees available. You go get your MBA (Master of Business Adminstration), or MPH (Master of Public Health), etc.

subset 4 - professional schools. Law School, Dental School, Med School, etc. Quite often you have to get through the first significant degrees (BA, MA) before you get into these places. Often there is a residency period after completing work here, sort of equivalent to an apprenticeship or journeymanship.

subset 5 (which really is a different bird so shouldn't be here) are continuing education programs. Institutions at all of the above levels may offer courses that the general public can take at a greatly reduced cost with greatly reduced prerequisites and demands. These courses almost never can be transferred into a formal academic degree program, but are for personal gratification or, perhaps, to look good on a resume.



lisa81
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20 Jun 2009, 2:24 am

I'm in community college now and it's better because it gives you hands on experience in your field of choice, and a intimate and involved environment. Whereas University is ALL theory and book work, so I rather go out to co-op in the real world then be stuck listening to a teacher ramble for hours on end.



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20 Jun 2009, 3:26 am

Red Deer College is pretty good.Small class sizes and they are very helpful and supportive.Although my classmates are very cliquey and avoid me like the plague, I find it easy to approach the instructors and get along with them.So far I am flourishing acedemically, but struggling socially.Most of my classmates did not have any jobs before coming to school, and still have the high school clique mentality, leaving me out.I have worked full time for 2 years before going to college.They came to college straight out of high school.I cant wait to finish my second year and get back into the workforce but with better pay, job security, and benefits.


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immersive
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21 Jun 2009, 2:09 am

lisa81 wrote:
Whereas University is ALL theory and book work, so I rather go out to co-op in the real world then be stuck listening to a teacher ramble for hours on end.


That's an incorrect and uninformed generalization. This is highly dependent on your specific major and degree program. Also, the "theory and book work" that is required is usually taught for a reason, because it's important background knowledge pertinent to the field in question.



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23 Jun 2009, 10:20 pm

Wow, there seems to be a lot of interesting opinions here. Personally, I like my big school because I can get lost and I'm motivated enough to learn my subject. I'm actually doing far better in university (yes a research university, where I was the only freshman in the lab I'm working in, and where all of my lower division courses are taught by professors with grad student (or undergrad) Teaching Assistants.)

I'd like to add 2 things to this discussion

1. Every school is different, and you should shop around at different universities and colleges before ruling out "4-year schools" as bad just because a few of them are bad. Some of them are really great. Also, it depends completely on your personality and how/what you want to learn.

2. I read this amazing book during my freshman year of university (around the time that many people I knew asked me if I had AS and was researching it.) It's called "Realizing the College Dream with Autism or Asperger's Syndrome". I found it very helpful to read and think about, and I highly recommend it to people who are trying to figure out how college may or may not work for them. It is only one person's experiences, but the information shared is important and helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/Realizing-College ... 1843108011


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25 Jun 2009, 2:48 pm

Community College is financially cheaper
and you will have access to student services.

Portland Community College is great.
Average class size: 28-35
All the buildings are in close proximity to each other
and you won't get lost on campus. There is always
something to do and lunchroom food/beverages are relatively cheap.

pcc.edu

And yes, all colleges are different.


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ruennsheng
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15 Jul 2009, 6:17 am

Can we try community colleges in California then, they are closer to the glitz in Hollywood. :P


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